RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 5:04:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
My favorite cable channel, MSNBC, informed us the Congressional Black Caucus is "providing guidance" to black preachers. This "guidance" provides rules on what they can and cannot say to their flocks on political matters.

Did the black preachers ask for guidance from the Obama Administration and is this really about silencing black preachers to prevent their preaching against gay marriage which it feels will lower black voter turnout in November?


Do you know what this guidance consists of? Because there are actually some rules concerning involvement in politics that religious organizations need to follow or risk loosing their tax exempt status.





GotSteel -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 5:28:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
This morning, in contrast, the senator specifically said this "guidance" is to keep black preachers from endangering their non-profit status by preaching on political subjects.

Reading further along the thread, hey look at that it's exactly what I was expecting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
My guess is political subjects is code for "gay marrage", but hey.

Actually it's code for partisan. Churches can talk about "traditional family values" (though personally I don't consider bigotry a family value) all they want. What they can't do without paying taxes like the rest of us for the privilege is talk about how the President is the devil because he's eroding traditional family values and therefor you need to vote for Romney.

Or vice versa.




SternSkipper -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 5:53:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Did the black preachers ask for guidance from the Obama Administration and is this really about silencing black preachers to prevent their preaching against gay marriage which it feels will lower black voter turnout in November?

Obama IS the anointed one, of course black Preachers will listen.


They could create a Marvel Comic about this team-up




Moonhead -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:20:35 AM)

Does anybody else get the impression that the neocons in da house have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about part of the electorate (however tiny) actually liking teh Kenyan?
All of this "annointed one/messiah/chosen/etc" crap seems to boil down to "how dare these scum like Obama more than they liked our unelected chimpanzee!" doesn't it?




Lucylastic -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:28:15 AM)

heh just in P&R, the only people ever to call the Prez, the "messiah/anointed one/chosen one" are the right wing posters., UNLESS we are pointing that little factoid out:)




Moonhead -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:31:11 AM)

Well obviously, but I suspect that's what's behind all of that crap.
"How dare America like some Kenyan more than Cheny's faux Texan dummy?"




Lucylastic -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:38:15 AM)

the stamping of little feetsies and non clarification from the OP is making me chuckle a great deal this morning




Arturas -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:42:52 AM)

quote:

What they can't do without paying taxes like the rest of us for the privilege is talk about how the President is the devil because he's eroding traditional family values and therefor you need to vote for Romney.


Actually, they can.

Nobody can take away their tax exempt status for preaching anything they want from the pulpit. The separation of Church and State does not specify what you can preach about or not preach about. Now, no doubt, Obama's muscle has tried to make it look like they can, but they cannot.

Why? Well a little history lesson is needed. The puritans founded this Country and we celebrate Thanksgiving "with them" each year. They preached politics and actually moved to America because of politics. So, this freedom and even this requirement to say what we wish to say even in the pulpit is ingrained in our laws and our Consitution. They same Consitution Obama violated with his Health Care mandate forcing citizens to do something the government wants them to do, much like the English King wanted the puritans to worship as he wanted them to.

Finally, as a real life example of a preacher being able to say what he likes (now, don't get ahead of me) I point to Obama's life long mentor and preacher, the one who preached politics weekly.




Musicmystery -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:45:42 AM)

quote:

a little history


lol.

It's hard to know where to start with that mess.

From 1620 to 1863, a twisted wreck of misunderstanding.




Arturas -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:48:05 AM)

quote:

Do you know what this guidance consists of? Because there are actually some rules concerning involvement in politics that religious organizations need to follow or risk loosing their tax exempt status.


Please do me the favor of referencing my prior post. I trust it provides excellent guidance on the much miss-understood subject of American Religious Freedom.




Arturas -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:50:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

a little history


lol.

It's hard to know where to start with that mess.

From 1620 to 1863, a twisted wreck of misunderstanding.


Perhaps you might be a little less vague.




Musicmystery -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 8:57:08 AM)

Perhaps you might be a little less ridiculous.

Of all the things that happened in 250 years before "this country" became "this country," you focused on a small band of struggling fanatics from 1620.

And that's only the first year of your imagined "history."

Thanksgiving, incidentally, starts in 1863.

And Lincoln wasn't thinking Puritans.

That's before even getting into the present circumstances.

Take a history course. Read a few books. Get an education. Turn off the television.





mnottertail -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 9:21:34 AM)

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

Direct your attention to page 5, if you are portraying somebody knowledgeable about this issue, but decidedly are not.




GotSteel -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 9:39:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
quote:

What they can't do without paying taxes like the rest of us for the privilege is talk about how the President is the devil because he's eroding traditional family values and therefor you need to vote for Romney.


Actually, they can.

Nobody can take away their tax exempt status for preaching anything they want from the pulpit. The separation of Church and State does not specify what you can preach about or not preach about. Now, no doubt, Obama's muscle has tried to make it look like they can, but they cannot.


Nope that's so demonstrably false. You really need to fact check your preconceptions on things, just a few seconds on wiki before you post would make it so that your claims weren't so demonstrably at odds with reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-11-08-antiwar-sermon_x.htm
The Internal Revenue Service has warned a prominent liberal church that it could lose its tax-exempt status because of an anti-war sermon a guest preacher gave on the eve of the 2004 presidential election, according to church officials.

The Rev. George F. Regas did not urge parishioners at All Saints Episcopal Church to support either President Bush or John Kerry, but he was critical of the Iraq war and Bush's tax cuts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.wnd.com/2000/05/4497/
Yesterday, a federal appeals court upheld the

Internal Revenue
Service’s decision to revoke the tax-exempt status of a church that had paid for newspaper ads against then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton in 1992.

The revocation is the first in the history of the IRS and serves as a warning from the federal judiciary that churches may not fund partisan activity. U.S. law granting tax-exempt status also forbids tax-exempt organizations from involvement in “any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.”


I can even show you Christians explaining that this is how things work from back in the 90's. This isn't some new "Obama's muscle" conspiracy, it's the IRS and it's the law.
quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.christianitytoday.com/cbg/1998/julaug/8y4060.html
In the United States, the church receives its privileged tax-exempt position at the cost of outright political involvement

In an election year, churches often are asked to distribute voter guides, host candidate forums, or take a stand on impending legislation. At other times, churches and their leaders may promote or oppose legislation at the community, state, or national level.

The IRS is Watching
Before churches or their leaders engage in political activity, they should consider the consequences. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS), which determines whether organizations qualify for tax-exempt status, forbids churches from participating in partisan politics. Though some critics say the IRS selectively targets churches that are involved in the abortion issue, it is clear that the IRS is increasing its monitoring of church involvement in politics.




GotSteel -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 9:45:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Thanksgiving, incidentally, starts in 1863.

And Lincoln wasn't thinking Puritans.


MM beat me to it. The myth about Thanksgiving you're referencing is propaganda and not actually where the holiday comes from.




DarkSteven -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 9:49:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

They same Consitution Obama violated with his Health Care mandate forcing citizens to do something the government wants them to do, much like the English King wanted the puritans to worship as he wanted them to.



Um, you are aware that the government has forced people to do things they don't want to do before, aren't you? Taxes, traffic laws, regulations, zoning, EEOC, ADA, etc. They're called laws. I realize that you're unhappy about Obamacare but to claim that it's an unprecedented example of the government making a law is ridiculous.




Moonhead -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 12:10:26 PM)

It is the first time the government was headed by a person of colour when a law was made though: perhaps that's the issue here?




DomKen -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 2:10:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

What they can't do without paying taxes like the rest of us for the privilege is talk about how the President is the devil because he's eroding traditional family values and therefor you need to vote for Romney.


Actually, they can.

Nobody can take away their tax exempt status for preaching anything they want from the pulpit. The separation of Church and State does not specify what you can preach about or not preach about. Now, no doubt, Obama's muscle has tried to make it look like they can, but they cannot.

Why? Well a little history lesson is needed. The puritans founded this Country and we celebrate Thanksgiving "with them" each year. They preached politics and actually moved to America because of politics. So, this freedom and even this requirement to say what we wish to say even in the pulpit is ingrained in our laws and our Consitution. They same Consitution Obama violated with his Health Care mandate forcing citizens to do something the government wants them to do, much like the English King wanted the puritans to worship as he wanted them to.

Finally, as a real life example of a preacher being able to say what he likes (now, don't get ahead of me) I point to Obama's life long mentor and preacher, the one who preached politics weekly.

You're wrong.

Churches can and have lost their tax exempt status due to partisan political activity.
http://www.wnd.com/2000/05/4497/

Rev. Wright's recorded sermons never endorse specific candidates or parties. Which is the line that cannot be crossed.




Musicmystery -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 2:35:12 PM)

Weapons of "mass" destruction...




SternSkipper -> RE: Congressional Black Caucus is giving "guildlines" to black Preachers. (5/30/2012 3:03:57 PM)

And now they have to legislate the old fashioned way... with bogus freedom of religion suits.




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