RE: Stand Your Ground II (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:42:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

That and from all those ebil NRA people passing them out on every street corner.

I think he should start a church. They could carry "God Hates The NRA" signs.

K.





Well don't look at me I'm Pagen and proud of it. 



Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:45:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I don't see ANYONE defending Jude, your real good against strawmen arn't you.

The "Stand your ground law" is defending him.  He invoked it as of now there are no plans to charge him for any crime.



Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:48:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



I think he should start a church. They could carry "God Hates The NRA" signs.



K.


Yeah and they can start a collection to round up all the guns. That'll fix those NRA guys.


Who do you people think wrote this law?  Lets try the NRA, not to say this is news.  Many special interests write the law and then have a representive sponser it.  And many and I do many representive don't even read with they are sponsering, as long as the money flows.



Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:49:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


As we are on the Stand by your ground laws, let look at incident in Arizona. I done some research and found some interesting facts. First off, under Arizona traffic laws, Adkins was walking his dog, a
Labrador (these dogs are more dangerous the pit bills)




And one more question, what is a "Pit Bill" ??

thank you, my spelling is bad, I meant Pit Bull...but I more of a cat lover.



BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:50:27 PM)

I looked up the quote Heller was talking about the law not the case. As usual your statments need to be taken with a block of salt.



Kirata -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:51:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
quote:


“The presumption that a person acted reasonably is appropriate“, says Charles Heller, co-founder of Arizona Citizens Defense League, which advocates for gun rights

Charlie Heller as stated is the co-found of the Arizona Citizens Defense League, supported the NRA in passing the "stand your ground law" in Arizona. This is his quote when the press asked him to comment on the Adkins case.

I honestly don't know whether you're just so fucked up that you can't even read a news story without needing to twist it into what you want to believe, or whether you're deliberately lying. Personally, I suspect the former. But in either case, that quote was not a response to the circumstances of the Adkins case. Heller was talking about SYG laws:

"People have a right to defend themselves," he says. The presumption of reasonableness makes police and prosecutors think twice before charging someone.

K.



lovmuffin -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 1:54:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I looked up the quote Heller was talking about the law not the case. As usual your statments need to be taken with a block of salt.



Go figure, and I was going to ask him for the link. I won't bother now, I get it.



Kirata -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:06:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Go figure, and I was going to ask him for the link. I won't bother now, I get it.

Yeah really, it seems to be a trend.

K.



lovmuffin -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:10:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Go figure, and I was going to ask him for the link. I won't bother now, I get it.

Yeah really, it seems to be a trend.

K.

You really need to stop confusing the issue with facts.



Kirata -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:24:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

You really need to stop confusing the issue with facts.

I apologize. [:(]

K.



BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:36:08 PM)

There are only three possible explinations for your statement that there are no plans to charge Jude.
A. Gross misinterpitation of the law by the DA.
B. Gross mirepresentation of the incedent in the press.
C. The DA forgot to inform you of his intentions.



Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:45:43 PM)

Well now we know who the Jude defender are...I imagine all of you will also defend Spooner.





BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:53:39 PM)

I guess you can't read.
I have said that both are inexcusable, but that would violate your delusion wouldn't it.



GotSteel -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 2:58:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
A number of us including I suspect cloudboy believe that the "law that says the thugs own the streets" to already have been passed. It's commonly referred to as stand your ground.

How do ya like that BamaD ? Now us law abiding citizens who would assert our rights to defend ourselves from bodily harm rather than get down on our knees and beg for our lives are thugs and the criminals are holier then Jesus H Christ.


I'm all for self defense, I'm not for legalizing gang warfare. As far as I can tell we're talking about the lowering of the requirements for legally killing someone to below Wild West standards.



BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 3:19:55 PM)

When a person is assaulted on the street and defendes themself the law has to take one of two approaches .

A. He has to prove self defense, guilty until proven innocent.

or

B. The state has to prove it wasn't self defense. Innocent until proven guilty.

Stand your ground takes the later position you take the former.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
A number of us including I suspect cloudboy believe that the "law that says the thugs own the streets" to already have been passed. It's commonly referred to as stand your ground.

How do ya like that BamaD ? Now us law abiding citizens who would assert our rights to defend ourselves from bodily harm rather than get down on our knees and beg for our lives are thugs and the criminals are holier then Jesus H Christ.


I'm all for self defense, I'm not for legalizing gang warfare. As far as I can tell we're talking about the lowering of the requirements for legally killing someone to below Wild West standards.




Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 4:19:11 PM)

here is something to read....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/stand-ground-legal-defenses-worked-florida-cases-where-183345434.html



lovmuffin -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 4:50:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
A number of us including I suspect cloudboy believe that the "law that says the thugs own the streets" to already have been passed. It's commonly referred to as stand your ground.

How do ya like that BamaD ? Now us law abiding citizens who would assert our rights to defend ourselves from bodily harm rather than get down on our knees and beg for our lives are thugs and the criminals are holier then Jesus H Christ.


I'm all for self defense, I'm not for legalizing gang warfare. As far as I can tell we're talking about the lowering of the requirements for legally killing someone to below Wild West standards.



What gang warfare ??? It's about not prosecuting people by some freakin anti gun Mike Nyfong types for defending themselves in situations where any other prudent person certainly would. Thats not to say that sometimes there may be a fine line or an idiot jumping the gun or getting a little trigger happy, but for the most part it allows the good guys to protect themselves and or their loved ones and not have to beg for their lives when away from home without fear of going to jail for doing so.



BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 5:29:11 PM)

Check
dominionofnewyork.com
it says that blacks are helped more by stand your ground laws than whites are



kalikshama -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 5:48:51 PM)

The story notes that SYG helps black defendants but not victims:

http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2012/06/04/believe-stand-your-ground-never-helps-blacks-youre-wrong/#.T81WQNVYvn0

...The problem with the law — which most of us suspected during the Trayvon Martin case — is that black victims are less likely to be vindicated.

The Tampa Bay Times analyzed 192 of Florida’s adjudicated Stand Your Ground cases and found that:

- Overall, black defendants went free 66 percent of the time in fatal cases compared to 61 percent for white defendants — a difference explained, in part, by the fact blacks were more likely to kill another black.
- People who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time.



kalikshama -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/4/2012 5:51:20 PM)

quote:

I'm all for self defense, I'm not for legalizing gang warfare. As far as I can tell we're talking about the lowering of the requirements for legally killing someone to below Wild West standards.


http://www.dominionofnewyork.com/2012/06/04/believe-stand-your-ground-never-helps-blacks-youre-wrong/#.T81WQNVYvn0

Reports of justifiable homicides tripled after the law went into effect, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Last year, twice a week, on average, someone’s killing was considered warranted.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1128317.ece

Arthur Hayhoe read about Billy Kuch in the newspaper. The executive director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence added another file to his growing stack. This shooting wasn't far from his own home.

Hayhoe says the law turns Florida into the Wild West.

"What in the hell is our state government doing passing a law encouraging our citizens to solve disputes with guns?" he said. "This is the right-to-commit-murder law."





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