RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 1:01:14 PM)

I do find it extraordinary that there wasn't more of a fuss about that recount being stopped when it looked like the chimp's teensy and dubious majority (there were a lot more highly dodgy absentee ballots turned in than his majority, put it that way) might be revealed as a hallucination. Still, if Gore was enough of a pussy to let it go, what can you do?
(All of this "armed insurrection" stuff that the madder elements of the Republicans camp followers have been blathering about since a Kenyan was elected, I suppose. Johnson might have been up for that in similar circumstances, but Gore? Bleah.)




SternSkipper -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 1:09:36 PM)

quote:

Yes. Personal debt bankrolled by easy Mortgages caused the 2008 meltdown. Easy mortages were caused by the Frank Barney, democrate, with Clinton's support; remember the newspaper articles in early 2007 writing about how new homeowners were scared their one year ARM was about to reset and their payment triples? The Demos were behind that in order to buy votes from those who could not buy a house otherwise.


Hahahahaha... Somebody doesn't understand derivatives or WHO came up with them or even WHO cashed in on them.
[image]local://upfiles/18637/C4796A0D5B40401381C70369868C99AB.gif[/image]




mnottertail -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 1:20:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I do find it extraordinary that there wasn't more of a fuss about that recount being stopped when it looked like the chimp's teensy and dubious majority (there were a lot more highly dodgy absentee ballots turned in than his majority, put it that way) might be revealed as a hallucination. Still, if Gore was enough of a pussy to let it go, what can you do?
(All of this "armed insurrection" stuff that the madder elements of the Republicans camp followers have been blathering about since a Kenyan was elected, I suppose. Johnson might have been up for that in similar circumstances, but Gore? Bleah.)


Dude, you've seen our discourses and what can and can't be done and the pointless pissups we call debate on our way to making america number one.

Would you want to be president of this hopeless motherfucker? 




SternSkipper -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 1:42:44 PM)

quote:


Did you see where the Congressional budget Office said yesterday that unless debt is brought under control, shit is going to hit the fan big time! People on the dole better start looking for some way to EARN money. The government can't send you money from an empty box!


Bummer that Boehner and McConnell didn't budget you a crash helmet while they've been trying to control elections by trainwrecking the economy.

You're rant basically implies that the solution is unilateral and therefore Obama's fault.
How fucking dippy is that?
[image]http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/fun/b0230.gif[/image]




mnottertail -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 1:49:22 PM)

The government can't send you money from an empty box!

(oh the fuck they cant, the rebates, the tax cuts the stimulus and so on all the while we've been in debt, you see, this thing called debt has been a real bugaboo since St. Wrinklemeat, its just been since the republicans augered it in with big drools during the Iraq thing a few years back that it has become an emergency.




vincentML -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 1:51:41 PM)

quote:

The looser credit is, the more consumption will be. Consumption is of course a good thing - as long as the ability (and inclination) exists to pay off the credit.


Consumption may be a good thing for Producers and Usurious Lenders (Loan Sharks) but is it a good thing for consumers who are borrowing against future income? Notable is the fact that middle class incomes have been fairly stagnant the last thirty years, so people are borrowing against diminishing income expectations.




DesideriScuri -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 2:22:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The fact that private debt is decreasing is no surprise. We've gone from credit-happiness to tight lending criteria.

And, to be honest, I cheer this change on! It was our credit-wanton-ness that fucked it all up. That was fueled by cheap credit from The Fed. I've been talking about raising interest rates for a couple years now. Try to get people to save instead of spend.
Since loans from banks are *supposed* to come from their pile of savings, wouldn't increasing those savings mean an increase in loanable funds? Huh. Go figure. Americans need to drop their consumption levels. Until we do, we'll always have issues like we are having.

I dunno. I don't look at this as a question of tight credit vs loose credit. I wonder what the optimum level of credit looseness is, so to speak.
The looser credit is, the more consumption will be. Consumption is of course a good thing - as long as the ability (and inclination) exists to pay off the credit.


While consumption is definitely good to a point, if it's being manipulated by cheap credit, that consumption is going to fall flat on its face as soon as you get back to Market-defined credit rates. I get stimulating things, but there is a difference between stimulating the economy and subsidizing the economy. People took advantage of cheap credit and when it came due and credit became tight, they were fucked.

The all-out consumerism of the general population is disgusting. We run into the problems we see when our economy is dependent on consumption and even tied to ever-increasing consumption. I have no problem with the US *not* having the world's largest economy. That's quite a ways away, but if you think about it, if we are the world's largest consumers, with only the 3rd largest population (China outpaces India, and India is about 4x the population of the US), good God, we are consuming a ridiculous amount per person compared to much of the world (considering India and China make up about 45% of the World Population, the average US Citizen consumes more than at least 45% of the average World Population). That's nuts! And, we're finding out what it will do to us.




mnottertail -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 2:25:59 PM)

It was the way the usury was structured that put everybody in the shittter.




MrRodgers -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 2:41:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

No way......the con talking points say that our debt is growing...President Obama`s fault yada yada.....

"WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Everyone knows America has too much debt. What they don’t know is that things are getting better, not worse.
Little by little, our economy is reducing its debt burden, slowly repairing the damage caused by 10, 20 or 30 years of excess.

If you want to know why economic growth has been so tepid, here’s your answer. Four years after the storm hit, the economy is still deleveraging. And it’s very hard for any economy to grow when everyone is focused on increasing their savings.

Total domestic — public and private — debt as a share of the economy has declined for 12 quarters in a row after surging over the previous decade.

The rapid rise in federal debt over the past four years has distracted us from the big picture. The level of public debt is indeed worrisome, but it’s not as big a worry as the economy’s total level of debt — public and private.
Although we have a whole cottage industry devoted to warning us about the dangers of too much public debt, we don’t have any comparable Cassandras telling us about the dangers of too much private debt. Yet the history of the past 30 years (or 300) clearly shows that too much debt, of whatever variety, can pose a systemic risk to the national and global economies.

As much as we hear politicians, pundits, tea-party patriots and the Congressional Budget Office obsessing about government debt, it was excessive private debt — not public debt — that caused the 2008 financial meltdown"



Yes. Personal debt bankrolled by easy Mortgages caused the 2008 meltdown. Easy mortages were caused by the Frank Barney, democrate, with Clinton's support; remember the newspaper articles in early 2007 writing about how new homeowners were scared their one year ARM was about to reset and their payment triples? The Demos were behind that in order to buy votes from those who could not buy a house otherwise.

That was then. Now, excess public debt and spend, spend policies and a crazy and Unconsitutional heath care plan that is anti buisness and therefore anti-jobs have frozen economic investment.

Not to worry, the Supreme Court announces their rulling by Monday nailing another nail in a sad and failed Presidency and come November the President goes lame duck and is replaced. Finally, the Democratic party purges the extreme left and comes back to a centralist policy and fields another Clintion in 2016 and by then we are not whole but where we should be.

P.S. if you can hang on. I know many are on the dole and getting ready to be pushed of it and are sweating some real economic issues and maybe even homelessness. It's getting desperate for some now as unemployment funds run out. I see whole families begging on the corners now and people getting groceries on a bicycle in dense traffic. This is a sign of more things to come before it gets better and better is not what it was before but how it will be now, back to a pre-industrial economy unless the GOP can actually reduce the debt, clear out excess repo'ed houses, entice business reinvestment with the lure of very cheap energy.

Some great right wing talking points almost none of which including our need for a '16 Clinton is true. Clinton and pals had nothing to do with fraudulent mortgage lending. Housing debt is different that consumer debt, is cars and credit cards...retail sales. Easier mortgage lending though could put maybe 2 million back to work.

1960 total debt service (interest) was 6% of GDP
2010 total debt service...30% of GDP. Get the picture...capitalism is debt and we will see a whole lot more of it.

Capitalism is turning paper into money, speculating on the value of that paper and when necessary....obtain a completely fraudulent AAA rating on your new 'shit' paper. That's what caused the meltdown...greedy capitalist scum on wall street not the individual house buyers.




MrRodgers -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 2:45:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

There i
quote:

I think the cons are still under the delusion that the supreme court runs things ever since they appointed bush to the presidency.....


There it is, who would have guessed. You still have not gotten over the falling chad nonesense and the fact the Supreme Court had to stop election thieft by hanging chad voting in which a Gore hanging chad was counted as a vote for him.

Hey election monitor, there's a hanging chad here over Bush's name, what do I do"?
"Leave it and punch the chad out for Gore of course and leave the other hanging. What, you want Bush to win"?

They stopped the recount because it was going to do 'irreparable harm' [sic] to the country if every siingle vote were counted. I am sure the founding fathers would have agreed hey ?

The supremes had it right except that it would have done irreparable harm to the Bush team and the repubs.




Marini -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 2:50:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Got modded for posting to much text.......the link has the rest.

Enjoy.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-debt-load-falling-fastest-040045522.html


Too much text? Around here?

I often see 10 pages of text, you must have copied an entire book!
[sm=LMAO.gif]




MrRodgers -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 3:01:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The fact that private debt is decreasing is no surprise. We've gone from credit-happiness to tight lending criteria.

And, to be honest, I cheer this change on! It was our credit-wanton-ness that fucked it all up. That was fueled by cheap credit from The Fed. I've been talking about raising interest rates for a couple years now. Try to get people to save instead of spend.
Since loans from banks are *supposed* to come from their pile of savings, wouldn't increasing those savings mean an increase in loanable funds? Huh. Go figure. Americans need to drop their consumption levels. Until we do, we'll always have issues like we are having.

I dunno. I don't look at this as a question of tight credit vs loose credit. I wonder what the optimum level of credit looseness is, so to speak.
The looser credit is, the more consumption will be. Consumption is of course a good thing - as long as the ability (and inclination) exists to pay off the credit.


While consumption is definitely good to a point, if it's being manipulated by cheap credit, that consumption is going to fall flat on its face as soon as you get back to Market-defined credit rates. I get stimulating things, but there is a difference between stimulating the economy and subsidizing the economy. People took advantage of cheap credit and when it came due and credit became tight, they were fucked.

The all-out consumerism of the general population is disgusting. We run into the problems we see when our economy is dependent on consumption and even tied to ever-increasing consumption. I have no problem with the US *not* having the world's largest economy. That's quite a ways away, but if you think about it, if we are the world's largest consumers, with only the 3rd largest population (China outpaces India, and India is about 4x the population of the US), good God, we are consuming a ridiculous amount per person compared to much of the world (considering India and China make up about 45% of the World Population, the average US Citizen consumes more than at least 45% of the average World Population). That's nuts! And, we're finding out what it will do to us.

Get over it...80% of our economy is 'consumer driven.' The facts are now, most of our consumerism puts Chinese and other nations to work...not the US work force. Their goes the neighborhood.




Moonhead -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 3:23:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Get over it...80% of our economy is 'consumer driven.' The facts are now, most of our consumerism puts Chinese and other nations to work...not the US work force. Their goes the neighborhood.

There also goes any hope of having an economy that isn't based on credit rather than production.




vincentML -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 3:37:53 PM)

quote:

Get over it...80% of our economy is 'consumer driven.' The facts are now, most of our consumerism puts Chinese and other nations to work...not the US work force. Their goes the neighborhood.


Agree that our economy is 'consumer driven' but which industrial and post-industrial economy isn't? However, this thread is about excess consumer debt and its draw down. So, economies are dependent on excess debt. I wonder if that implies that we will not get economic growth again until a new cycle of hyper-borrowing begins and consumer debt balloons once more. Appears like the basis for repeated cycles of boom and bust. Individuals need to guard against going into deep hock again for their own good, but they probably will not. Ya think?




vincentML -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 3:40:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It was the way the usury was structured that put everybody in the shittter.


Not sure I understand your point. Isn't usury excessive and unreasonable vig on borrowed money? Lookit payday loans . . . 120% annual interest rate.




vincentML -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 3:41:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Get over it...80% of our economy is 'consumer driven.' The facts are now, most of our consumerism puts Chinese and other nations to work...not the US work force. Their goes the neighborhood.

There also goes any hope of having an economy that isn't based on credit rather than production.


So much for supply side economics, heh?




MrRodgers -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 4:06:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Get over it...80% of our economy is 'consumer driven.' The facts are now, most of our consumerism puts Chinese and other nations to work...not the US work force. Their goes the neighborhood.

There also goes any hope of having an economy that isn't based on credit rather than production.


So much for supply side economics, heh?

Since the 60's the American largess has been shared less and less with labor. Soon, we'll owe ourselves to the company store.




vincentML -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 5:39:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Get over it...80% of our economy is 'consumer driven.' The facts are now, most of our consumerism puts Chinese and other nations to work...not the US work force. Their goes the neighborhood.

There also goes any hope of having an economy that isn't based on credit rather than production.


So much for supply side economics, heh?

Since the 60's the American largess has been shared less and less with labor. Soon, we'll owe ourselves to the company store.


We had a deal. Labor could organize and bargain for wages. Corporations negotiated with Labor for their mutual benefit. A worker could count on a lifetime job and had the security to borrow from the bank and buy a home. It was "a wonderful life." The deal was broken in the early 1980s by Thatcher and Reagen.




SternSkipper -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 5:46:55 PM)

quote:


Since the 60's the American largess has been shared less and less with labor. Soon, we'll owe ourselves to the company store.


Well said ... I'm open for wagers on how many additional posts till you are called a commie... anybody got any money they feel like losing?
[8D]




TheHeretic -> RE: U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s (6/8/2012 5:58:22 PM)

FR

I find it highly appropriate that a thread of this caliber is filled with people still repeating utterly debunked bullshit about the 2000 election.





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