RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (Full Version)

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MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 6:29:29 PM)

[8|] [8|] [8|]

(Because I've presented FACTS, where you've presented... NOTHING -- as usual).





PeonForHer -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 6:30:47 PM)

You do realise that you're a cre




PeonForHer -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 6:31:59 PM)

Sorry, posted too early. You do realise that you're a credulous supporter of a very particular view, don't you, MSLA?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 6:36:05 PM)

 
You do realize that FACTS do not have "particular view", don't you?!!  Oh wait... as usual, you're spouting nothing but blathering nonsense, and can't be bothered to actually present anything of substance. [8|]





kalikshama -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 7:38:27 PM)

More likely the stock dive is due to after conditioning shoppers for decades to look for sales, JCPenny has a new pricing strategy:

J.C. Penney's Shares In Free-Fall After 1Q Loss

NEW YORK May 16, 2012, 08:32 pm ET

NEW YORK (AP) — Wall Street doesn't seem to like J.C. Penney's new everyday low pricing any better than Main Street does.

The department store chain's stock plunged nearly 20 percent on Wednesday — the biggest decline in at least four decades, including the 1987 stock market crash. The drop came a day after Penney said it would stop paying dividends and blamed its large first-quarter loss on a poor reception from shoppers for its strategy of getting rid of hundreds of sales each year in favor of offering predictable low prices every day.

The plan, rolled out Feb. 1, aims to stop the cycle of heavy discounting — and discourage customers from waiting for sales to shop. But the reaction by investors and shoppers shows how difficult it will be for Penney to change the mindset of consumers who have been conditioned to expect blockbuster deals from Penney during the economic downturn.

It also puts more pressure on new CEO Ron Johnson, a former Apple executive who is trying to transform Penney from a has-been to a retail darling. The same investors who initially supported the man who masterminded both Apple's successful retail stores and Target's cheap chic strategy prior to that, now seem to be losing confidence in Johnson's plan.

"The honeymoon is definitely over for Johnson," said Brian Sozzi, chief equities analyst at NBG Productions, an independent research firm. "He sold the (pricing) story hard."

Penney did not return calls seeking comment, but Johnson asked investors to be patient during a meeting with them on Tuesday. He acknowledged that Penney has a long way to go to convince shoppers not to wait for sales.

But he said he needed to make this bet on predictable pricing because Penney has been struggling in recent years with the downturn and increased competition. Going forward, he said the company will do more to communicate the benefits of the new pricing strategy to shoppers in ads.

"Our first 90 days are a little tougher than we expected," Johnson told them. "We learned. Coupons are a drug. They really drove traffic."

Penney has long said the pricing plan would take time to work. But Johnson has tempered his tone since January when he announced the strategy to make pricing simpler. Unlike Wal-Mart's everyday low pricing, Penney's strategy doesn't try to undercut competitors but focuses on predictable prices.

Penney rolled out a series of ads intended to familiarize customers with its three-tiered strategy. The plan features everyday prices that are about 40 lower than a year ago, monthlong sales on selected items and clearance events on the first and third Friday of each month.

But observers say Penney's latest ads — which mimic rival Target's whimsical style — are confusing. In one TV spot, a dog continuously jumps through a hula hoop that a young girl is holding. The text reads: "No more jumping through hoops. No coupon clipping. No door busting. Just great prices from the start."

Wendy Ruud, a resident of Boca Raton, Fla., says she doesn't understand the commercials. She has stopped shopping at Penney because it no longer sends her coupons.

"I haven't really tried to educate myself" on the plan, said Rudd, 49. "But then I shouldn't have to."

The first sign that Penney's new pricing plan wasn't resonating with customers came last week when Macy's CFO Karen Hoguet told analysts that sales were rising at her company's stores that share malls with Penney stores.

Then, on Tuesday, J.C. Penney Co. reported that it lost $163 million, or 75 cents a share, in the three months ended April 28, compared with a profit of $64 million, or 28 cents a share, a year earlier.

Revenue dropped 20 percent to $3.15 billion for the quarter as customer traffic slipped 10 percent. Meanwhile, revenue at stores open at least a year — a comparison used to measure a retailer's health — fell 18.9 percent. That's much steeper than the 11.4 percent drop Wall Street was expecting.

Penney, based in Plano, Texas, also said it would discontinue its 20-cent-per-share quarterly dividend to save $175 million to fund its transformation.

Investors, who had sent Penney shares soaring 24 percent to about $43 after Johnson announced the pricing plan in late January, already had pushed Penney's shares down around $34 since the strategy was rolled out in stors.

Then on Wednesday, a day after Penney reported the disappointing results, its stock fell 19.7 percent, or $6.57 to close at $26.75.

That's the largest percentage drop since at least 1972, when FactSet's daily stock price records begin. On Oct. 19, 1987, Penney's shares slid 19.2 percent to $19.50.

David Abella, a portfolio manager at money-management firm Rochdale Investment Management, said the stock price drop may have created a buying opportunity. But he says he's holding off because he finds Penney's 20 percent drop in sales worrisome when many other retailers' enjoyed much better results.

"This only reinforces my skeptical feeling," said Abella, who added that he may buy Penney stock if he sees signs that shoppers are warming to the new pricing plan. "I haven't ever seen anything that bad in a decent market."




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 10:03:04 PM)

 
Certainly that's a contributing factor, but look at the Stock Graph provided... notice the date of the stock tumbling (Feb) vs this story (May) -- despite the Feb 1st. "roll out plan"... quite simply, sales to NOT react that quickly to a change from "Sales" to an "Every Day Low Price" strategy. They just don't.  Publicity (good or bad.. though usually bad), on the other hand, ABSOLUTELY DOES affect sales that fast!!!

Again, as I've repeatedly stated, JCP's CEO has fully expected sales to drop over the next year, expecting them to begin rising again.  But all one need do is look at the Stock Graph provided to see when the PLUNGE began.  Ironically, at the SAME time the Ellen Degeneres issue/publicity hit.

Personally, I wouldn't go about this rebranding effort in this way... there are better ways to do it -- and it ain't gonna be cheap, or fast to change consumer perception. If at all.





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/12/2012 11:22:20 PM)

 
From the Wall Street Journal...

"...this organization, though often branded as antigay, is expressing a sentiment common among the middlebrow demographic that J.C. Penney serves.

Mr. Johnson is alienating Penney's traditional customers in a bid to attract new customers from higher socio-economic segments that now shop Macy's, Nordstrom and Target.

Marketing to gays is but one example of the many ways Mr. Johnson is doing this. Earlier this year, he started putting an end to coupons and the word "sale" in a bid to change Penney's pricing structure.

The result? Larger-than-expected losses, plunging revenues, dwindling customer traffic and a plunging stock price."

Link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452772503908542.html





Aim2Plea -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 4:49:50 AM)

Huh.

"One million moms?"

I call bullshit. More than likely a thousand moms who each claim to represent a thousand other moms.

In the mean time, I'm all for gay rights. I'm all for love being there for the sake of love. That is all.




kalikshama -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:05:26 AM)

OMM takes a lot of heat and gets out of the kitchen.

After the antigay group known as One Million Moms came under assault on Facebook for attacking the idea of a gay comic book character, OMM's Facebook page went missing.

The New Civil Rights Movement reports that OMM's page on the social media site disappeared, and a quick Facebook search confirms that news. The group, which has leveled attacks against companies like JCPenney for being pro-gay, recently pounced on DC Comics for introducing Green Lantern as a gay character. After their Facebook post on the issue received numerous pro-gay comments, OMM removed the post.

Apparently, OMM went a step further recently by deleting their entire Facebook page. The New Civil Rights Movement notes that the group sent out a Tweet yesterday that stated they will be offline for most of next week to attend "vacation bible school."

OMM has nowhere near a million members and is part of the AFA, which is classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Read more here.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:10:47 AM)

One Million Moms isn't even close in numbers. They just picked the number because it sounded cool and made them look important. Maybe they should join up with the Westboro inbreds and try for an even hundred.

Attacking DC comics for having a gay character...sheesh. Don't those idiots know that comics aren't real? They probably think Tinky Winky is a real space alien too.l




Musicmystery -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 6:48:53 AM)

Simple market research shows that people are in favor of allowing some form of legal gay coupling. JCP knows this, and correctly ignores the fringe groups. From there, we have, again, people assuming coincidence is causation.

JCP went into discount retailing, changing its business model. Aside from customer expectations, discount retailing is a tough field; only a few players are good at it, and no one touches WalMart in this regard. Add to that the woes of retail stores generally in the growing age of online shopping. Many other factors.

But nice to know CM has so many talented and experienced retail analysts posting. If I'm ever interested in investing, I'll be sure to ask!

The coupon thing is interesting. It actually costs customers, but as Proctor & Gamble learned, doing away with them caused customer outcry--they think they're being gypped, unaware that if a company can afford the sale price, they can afford that all the time (short of a loss leader). But they're used to their coupons!





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 11:03:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aim2Plea

"One million moms?"

I call bullshit.



Yeah... more likely a marketing phrase, as "million moms" rolls off the tongue nicely... or wishful thinking, perhaps?!! [8D]





papassion -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 2:48:00 PM)


saying the retail business goes in cycles is true, however, compare JC Penny's sales with other simular retail stores. If JC Penny had a bigger drop in sales, why? People will give pollsters a politically correct answer. For example, if you ask 1000 people if they are racist, they will all say no. Thus you can publish " 100% polling proves no racism!" Ask a black if thats true. Same with homosexuality. Most will say they have no bias against gays. Ask a gay if thats true.

If JC Penny's sales dropped a lot more than the competition, more than the past years figures, that mothers group had some influence.




Owner59 -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 2:53:25 PM)

Not sure if success gives the homophobes any credibility but you can think so......I guess......

Most of the time....the WBC is successful......so fucking what?




dcnovice -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 3:31:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

saying the retail business goes in cycles is true, however, compare JC Penny's sales with other simular retail stores. If JC Penny had a bigger drop in sales, why? People will give pollsters a politically correct answer. For example, if you ask 1000 people if they are racist, they will all say no. Thus you can publish " 100% polling proves no racism!" Ask a black if thats true. Same with homosexuality. Most will say they have no bias against gays. Ask a gay if thats true.

If JC Penny's sales dropped a lot more than the competition, more than the past years figures, that mothers group had some influence.

You're right about folks' not always being honest with pollsters, I think.

If supporting equality has hurt JCP, then their taking a stand strikes me as all the more praiseworthy.




Lucylastic -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:01:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Never heard of the 'Million Moms' before. There are advantages to limiting things to some extent on the 'news' front.

In any case I can (personally) think of more than 100 hundred moms who would want nothing to do with 'Million Moms,' if this is any indication. Having met only one or two moms who would consider such an association, I think this tells me what I need to know.

Is JC Penney being perhaps too 'forward,' almost 'promoting' gay marriage?

<snipped for brevity>

They were huge on facebook but since they started their shennigans, anti onemillion moms groups have shot up..and have more "fans" than the original group.

Kali, you got that bang on:)[;)]

[image]local://upfiles/228382/39E1449214D546C29B66DC422AA2E61D.jpg[/image]




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:41:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

You do realise that you're a cre


CRE?




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:45:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Simple market research shows that people are in favor of allowing some form of legal gay coupling. JCP knows this, and correctly ignores the fringe groups. From there, we have, again, people assuming coincidence is causation.

JCP went into discount retailing, changing its business model. Aside from customer expectations, discount retailing is a tough field; only a few players are good at it, and no one touches WalMart in this regard. Add to that the woes of retail stores generally in the growing age of online shopping. Many other factors.

But nice to know CM has so many talented and experienced retail analysts posting. If I'm ever interested in investing, I'll be sure to ask!

The coupon thing is interesting. It actually costs customers, but as Proctor & Gamble learned, doing away with them caused customer outcry--they think they're being gypped, unaware that if a company can afford the sale price, they can afford that all the time (short of a loss leader). But they're used to their coupons!




Actually, JCP's current marketing scheme is entirely bent on eliminating the concept of "discounts".

Hence why they're failing (at the moment...I believe they'll fix this in time) because 6 months isn't enough time to change 3 decades of Guest behaviour.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:47:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


saying the retail business goes in cycles is true, however, compare JC Penny's sales with other simular retail stores. If JC Penny had a bigger drop in sales, why? People will give pollsters a politically correct answer. For example, if you ask 1000 people if they are racist, they will all say no. Thus you can publish " 100% polling proves no racism!" Ask a black if thats true. Same with homosexuality. Most will say they have no bias against gays. Ask a gay if thats true.

If JC Penny's sales dropped a lot more than the competition, more than the past years figures, that mothers group had some influence.


Paranoia, while hardly a decidedly accurate polling status, is indeed a real factor in polling...ergo, asking a gay person if there is bias is like asking a guy if whacking his pud to a video of Pamela Anderson is evidence that porn is effective or not.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Anti-Gay Group Slams JCPenney over Father’s Day Ad (6/13/2012 5:49:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


Never heard of the 'Million Moms' before. There are advantages to limiting things to some extent on the 'news' front.

In any case I can (personally) think of more than 100 hundred moms who would want nothing to do with 'Million Moms,' if this is any indication. Having met only one or two moms who would consider such an association, I think this tells me what I need to know.

Is JC Penney being perhaps too 'forward,' almost 'promoting' gay marriage?

<snipped for brevity>

They were huge on facebook but since they started their shennigans, anti onemillion moms groups have shot up..and have more "fans" than the original group.

Kali, you got that bang on:)[;)]

[image]local://upfiles/228382/39E1449214D546C29B66DC422AA2E61D.jpg[/image]


hahahahahaha....nicely done :)

(You're so gawdamn good at research!)




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