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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 8:28:11 AM

BamaD

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Carrying doesn't get rid of the drug dealers and gangbangers. But untill the government does something about them it alows me to keep them at bay.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 9:29:52 AM

Nosathro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Carrying doesn't get rid of the drug dealers and gangbangers. But untill the government does something about them it alows me to keep them at bay.

Just out of curiosity what would you have to do with a Drug Dealer? Our prisons are full of drug dealers and gangbanger. In fact in California we excuted Stanley Tookie Willams, one of the founders of the Crips.

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 6/13/2012 9:32:57 AM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 9:35:06 AM

BamaD

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They have taken over most of my neighborhood.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 12:12:15 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Second link... Well, this is a link from STOCKHOLM, which is in Sweden, not the US... Fail

Third link...Talks about risk behaviors, not crimes... Fail

Fourth link... British journal of criminology... Fail

Fifth link...
quote:

The Enduring Effects of Cohort Characteristics on Age‐Specific Homicide Rates, 1960‐1995
Another fail, this study is about 7 years out of date
Cmon Kenny, really? Your Googlefu is weak old man.

What are you whining about bobby? This is settled science. Scientists do not do studies every couple of years to reconfirm well established facts.

You demanded data and I gave you the data and you tried to handwave it away. Do you have any evidence at all to indicate that the overwhelming majority of crimes are committed by men age 15 to 25? Since you don't perhaps you might want to try living in the real world with the rest of us.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/13/2012 12:29:26 PM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 12:22:20 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Fewer men between 15 and 25 = fewer crimes period.

Bullshit.

The fact of the matter is that while crime has been going down the number of males in that age range has been going up.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

K.

Your link doesn't show that.
2000 = 20,078,818 in a total population of 281,421,906 for a percentage of the population of 7.13%
2010 = 22,317,842 in a total opulation of 308,745,538 for a percentage of the population of 7.22%

That's well within the margin of error of the census sample. The percentage of young males is basically steady for those two snapshots.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/13/2012 12:27:38 PM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 1:32:53 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Second link... Well, this is a link from STOCKHOLM, which is in Sweden, not the US... Fail

Third link...Talks about risk behaviors, not crimes... Fail

Fourth link... British journal of criminology... Fail

Fifth link...
quote:

The Enduring Effects of Cohort Characteristics on Age‐Specific Homicide Rates, 1960‐1995
Another fail, this study is about 7 years out of date
Cmon Kenny, really? Your Googlefu is weak old man.

What are you whining about bobby? This is settled science. Scientists do not do studies every couple of years to reconfirm well established facts.

You demanded data and I gave you the data and you tried to handwave it away. Do you have any evidence at all to indicate that the overwhelming majority of crimes are committed by men age 15 to 25? Since you don't perhaps you might want to try living in the real world with the rest of us.

But the data you gave doesn't answer the question Kenny, How many of those crimes are of the non violent type? You're lumping ALL crime into the same category, my first post wasn't about all crime, just the category of VIOLENT CRIME... See the difference? Not to mention your studies are of European studies, not US studies, are you saying that Europe and America are the same?

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/offage.cfm

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< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 6/13/2012 1:36:26 PM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 2:17:56 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Second link... Well, this is a link from STOCKHOLM, which is in Sweden, not the US... Fail

Third link...Talks about risk behaviors, not crimes... Fail

Fourth link... British journal of criminology... Fail

Fifth link...
quote:

The Enduring Effects of Cohort Characteristics on Age‐Specific Homicide Rates, 1960‐1995
Another fail, this study is about 7 years out of date
Cmon Kenny, really? Your Googlefu is weak old man.

What are you whining about bobby? This is settled science. Scientists do not do studies every couple of years to reconfirm well established facts.

You demanded data and I gave you the data and you tried to handwave it away. Do you have any evidence at all to indicate that the overwhelming majority of crimes are committed by men age 15 to 25? Since you don't perhaps you might want to try living in the real world with the rest of us.

But the data you gave doesn't answer the question Kenny, How many of those crimes are of the non violent type? You're lumping ALL crime into the same category, my first post wasn't about all crime, just the category of VIOLENT CRIME... See the difference? Not to mention your studies are of European studies, not US studies, are you saying that Europe and America are the same?

<Completely useless graphic deleted>
Here's the real stats for the whole country. Do any searches you like the data will be that most crimes are committed by 15 to 25 year old males.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 2:23:00 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Here's the real stats for the whole country. Do any searches you like the data will be that most crimes are committed by 15 to 25 year old males.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

You made the claim, YOU do the search, I showed mine, and imagine that, it's the SAME link you posted, only yours doesn't show any actual data... Things that make you go hmmm.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 6:22:54 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Carrying doesn't get rid of the drug dealers and gangbangers. But untill the government does something about them it alows me to keep them at bay.

Just out of curiosity what would you have to do with a Drug Dealer? Our prisons are full of drug dealers and gangbanger. In fact in California we excuted Stanley Tookie Willams, one of the founders of the Crips.

Good for you. One down about a million to go.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/13/2012 9:32:14 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Your link doesn't show that.
2000 = 20,078,818 in a total population of 281,421,906 for a percentage of the population of 7.13%
2010 = 22,317,842 in a total opulation of 308,745,538 for a percentage of the population of 7.22%

That's well within the margin of error of the census sample. The percentage of young males is basically steady for those two snapshots.

The number of 18-24 year olds in the population increased 13% between 2000 and 2010 while the total population only increased 9.7%. If your theory that crime rates vary with the relative size of that cohort (the peak age range for homicides is 17-24) then violent crime should have gone up. Instead it went down, taking your theory with it.

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< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/13/2012 9:34:38 PM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 5:47:17 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Your link doesn't show that.
2000 = 20,078,818 in a total population of 281,421,906 for a percentage of the population of 7.13%
2010 = 22,317,842 in a total opulation of 308,745,538 for a percentage of the population of 7.22%

That's well within the margin of error of the census sample. The percentage of young males is basically steady for those two snapshots.

The number of 18-24 year olds in the population increased 13% between 2000 and 2010 while the total population only increased 9.7%. If your theory that crime rates vary with the relative size of that cohort (the peak age range for homicides is 17-24) then violent crime should have gone up. Instead it went down, taking your theory with it.

You're using the mixed sex numbers and you're only ooking at 18 to 24 to get that number. The male only numbers are further into the document and do not show a significant change in the relative size of the cohort which is what matters.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 6/14/2012 5:48:45 AM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 8:50:57 AM

kdsub

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Below is an excerpt from Yahoo's 10 most dangerous Cities...These type of laws are doing little in my area to protect anyone...and are killing children and innocents...or at least idiots with legal hand guns are through negligence.

"Although the total number of murders in the city has decreased by 31 since 2010, crime in St. Louis did not improve overall last year. Violent crime rates in St. Louis have risen dramatically, from 17.5 to 18.6 cases per 1,000 people. And the city’s murder rate is still the fourth highest in the nation, its robbery rate is the fifth highest in the nation and its aggravated assault rate is third highest in the nation. Despite these troubling facts, the St. Louis Police Department recently faced potentially drastic budget cuts that may require the elimination of 100 street-patrolling officer positions through attrition.
"

Butch

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 9:27:47 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're using the mixed sex numbers and you're only ooking at 18 to 24 to get that number. The male only numbers are further into the document and do not show a significant change in the relative size of the cohort which is what matters.

I'm looking at the 18-24 numbers because the 17-24 age range represents the highest rates of violent crime by age of offender, not 15-24 as you claim. Though actually, the true peak violent crime age range using homicides as a measure is 17-29, with by far the highest rates in the 20-24 age range. By including 15-16 year olds in your counts you pull the total increase down, because that age group grew less, but the impact of this under-17 age range on serious violent crime is negligible. You are just cherry-picking the numbers you need to promote a bogus claim.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/14/2012 10:06:18 AM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 10:16:05 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're using the mixed sex numbers and you're only ooking at 18 to 24 to get that number. The male only numbers are further into the document and do not show a significant change in the relative size of the cohort which is what matters.

I'm looking at the 18-24 numbers because the 17-24 age range represents the highest rates of violent crime by age of offender, not 15-24 as you claim. Though actually, the true peak violent crime age range using homicides as a measure is 17-29, with by far the highest rates in the 20-24 age range. By including 15-16 year olds in your counts you pull the total increase down, because that age group grew less, but the impact of this under-17 age range on serious violent crime is negligible. You are just cherry-picking the numbers you need to promote a bogus claim.

K.

So you're saying that since you claim that the 15 to 25 male cohort doesn't matter to crime rates the fact that it was efectively the same in both snapshots means my statement that the best predictor of crime rates is the relative size of the 15 to 25 male cohort is incorrect?

Your BS is usually less obvious than that.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 10:18:33 AM

Moonlightmaddnes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

I am in SW Missouri. When our house was broken into the police came and looked at the damage then told us if they come back shoot them. Dont worry if they fall outside the house. Yep wild west alright.

When I lived in NE missouri underthe same circumstances the cops told us to be sure and put one hand inside the window before they got there. They seemed to think when you broke into someones elses house you gave up certain rights, like breathing.

LOL YES!!!! There was a family we knew pretty well. Everyone was gone except the 12 year old. He came downstairs to get a drink and there was a guy in their house. He did not think twice, he simply grabbed the shotgun and opened fire. The man dove though a picture window to get away.

quote:

Good old SW Mo… I love to hike and camp down there.

Twenty ears ago if I had a shotgun or deer rifle in the house…which I did…and if my home was invaded… which it was…I needed no stand your ground law to defend my property and family. Common sense and existing law allowed you this option.

In certain areas like where we live it is encouraged by our local law enforcement. The bigger cities not so much. Rural SW Missouri it is very much still in force.

quote:

Carrying doesn't get rid of the drug dealers and gangbangers. But untill the government does something about them it alows me to keep them at bay.

My best friend and I go walking at night, usually around 10 30 or 11. She has a concealed weapons permit and she carries a gun on her. Sometimes I wonder if she prefers to walk at night in the hopes someone would dare mess with us, but sadly for her we live in a tiny farming town. Worst we find are teenagers on the square howling like dogs.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 10:21:37 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

the impact of this under-17 age range on serious violent crime is negligible.

you claim that the 15 to 25 male cohort doesn't matter to crime rates...

Your BS is usually less obvious than that.

Res ipsa loquiter.

K.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 10:24:13 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

the impact of this under-17 age range on serious violent crime is negligible.

you claim that the 15 to 25 male cohort doesn't matter to crime rates...

Your BS is usually less obvious than that.

Res ipsa loquiter.

K.

Wrong. You made a counter claim, actually not even directly since you have claimed violent crime and didn't define the term, and presented no data to back it up.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 11:00:23 AM

lovmuffin

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As for the OP, some here have commented that grandpa should have driven away or should not have stopped and that the shooting was avoidable. It's hard to say exactly because as usual there is not enough information on the link to make a judgement. I would have to ask why did grandpa stop ? Was it because he was so shook up after a near accident (I know the feeling) ? Why did the motorcyclist stop ? If they both stopped to yell at each other then whether or not the shooting was justifiable is questionable though the motorcyclist was ultimately the aggressor and he shouldn't have approached the car. Why didn't grandpa drive away ? Was there too much traffic going by to just zoom out into it ?

Even from the information we do have I would say the shooting may have been avoidable even assuming grandpa did not have the option to drive away. If an angry motorcyclist began to approach my vehicle and I had no retreat option (and I would absolutely retreat given the option), I would level my weapon at him hoping he backs off which I'm sure he would given the odds that most criminals will cease their aggression when confronted by a person who has a gun. I certainly would not have spit back at the guy and I would have even tried to apologize and reason with him. I just don't want to answer all those questions by the cops or take a chance having to deal with some Mike Nyfong type prosecutor for having discharged my weapon into some one unless I'm absolutely scared shitless for my life. There are too many inconsistencies form state to state on the use of deadly force and also too many inconsistencies from many different prosecutors on how they handle such cases.

< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 6/14/2012 11:02:02 AM >

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 4:14:58 PM

joether

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
They have taken over most of my neighborhood.

So rather than do something about it, you've thrown your hands up and surrender. Yeah, I'm sure that gun of yours will protect you when the odds are 14:1, and they got flashbangs and grenades....

Why not get to know those in your neighborhood. Go have a serious talk with the police in your area. Invest in surveillance devices and plant them (obvious and not) around the neighborhood. Ask the police to bring a few officers to the area while you do this. Meet those officers. Offer them food, drink, and a nice shady spot to sit and watch things (cus police cars do get cramp and hot after a while). And set up a few IF sentry guns loaded with paint balls in the backyards. Criminals dont like paintballs nor being watched tightly by citizens and police. They'll move on.

The added benefit is that you'll get to met your neighbors, maybe have a block party, and the holidays are a bit more cheery with friends than "that weird guy cross the street with a shotgun". It will take time, money, action and most of all patience; but the rewards are worth it. Its up to you whether you want a good neighborhood or not.

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RE: The Wild west in Missouri - 6/14/2012 6:40:05 PM

BamaD

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14 to 1 flashbangs and grenades? earth to joether.
Police station is 2 blocks away I suspect they know whats going on.
If I had the money to spenf on that I'd move.
We have an enclave of three families who watch out for each other.
Your vision of my having to take on a swat them is absurd we don't have 14 officers on duty at one time.
For our srug dealers to put to that size a force they'd have to join forces with people they would never let behind them with a gun.
I have overheard new punks in the area being told that my son and I are those crazy white people and to stay away from us.
Throwing up your hands and giving up is thinking that cause you are the nice guy who throws a block party will make them like you and leave you alone. It will only convince them you have neat stuff to steal.
I tried being friends it didn't work

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