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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 4:49:26 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I think Breitbart has the right take on this. This will probably become a primary GOP talking point in the next few days. Legal immigrants are suffering with the economy as much as everyone else is. Personally, I think the Hispanic community (specifically those who immigrated here legally or whose parents immigrated legally) will see through this farce and realize that it will only make their economic struggles worse.

-SD-


Romney favors the Dream Act if only these kids enter the Military.

Sending these young people to a country they have never even visited since early childhood is beyond cruel.

Many of them are probably already working; the economic argument is weak.

Where is the compassion? Yes, I know we have a higher than usual unemployment rate at the moment, but there is always an unemployment rate. In the long run, immigrants, undocumented or not, contribute to our economy as consumers and to our tax roles. It is kinda stupid to educate a kid through high school and then send him/her out of the country. What an horrendous waste of property tax money.

Xenophobia and racist intolerance.

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 5:02:32 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: punisher440
I have a friend that found out a illegal Mexican is using his S.S. number to work construction work.When he got mad and reported it,the S.S. office in Little Rock flat out told him they would do nothing to stop the illegal from using his S.S. number.He tried to get another number issued and they told him no.When he asked what happens if the illegal decided to apply for HIS S.S. money if the illegal choose to try getting it....he said he was met with blank faces.Far too many of you that think there is nothing wrong think the illegals are only doing jobs most American can't or won't do are sadily mistaken.And please,don't throw up the tired old lines about who will pick the lettuce,oranges and other produce,they can apply for and get a temporary farm worker visa and once harvest time is over they return to Mexico.And yes,I think the companies that employ these illegals need to be cracked down on so it is not profitable for them to use illegals.

Actually, an illegal immigrant cant get the money he paid into SS back or use it in any way if he has used someone elses SS number, the govt just keeps it, its a cash cow to them and they have raked in billions from illegals that way.. And if the govt wont issue Americans with new SS numbers then you Americans need to fix it and get your govt to do that, not just bitch about it.. Illegals are here and they arent all going to be deported, most are going to stay.. fix your system to allow them to do that..

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 5:06:23 AM   
PeonForHer


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I must say, I find it difficult to understand how these kids were being deported in the first place. What was happening - were they just plonked back in the country of their parents' origin? Were there relatives in said original countries who were ready and waiting to take them as wards? I'm trying to picture some kid of five suddenly losing the place she once lived in; her schoolfriends, her school, her neighbourhood, now gone - and in a new country, having to make new friends, get acquainted with new 'parents', possibly even learn a new language . . . the mind boggles.

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 5:10:14 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		I dont think that much of what Obama has decided to do.. it really just pushes the problem down the road.. I actually like the Startup Visa Act since it focuses on starting businesses rather than handing out work permits.. Kids with certain degrees also qualify (I think they should have included those with degrees in business also tho)..

the problem is that this will die too, just like the previous Startup Act did and the Dream Act did.. its the whole D versus R thing.. if the proposed act is from the other side then its voted against, just cuz its from the other side, not based on the merit of the act itself.. Americans keep shooting themselves in the foot, thats why the US is sliding (fast) as a superpower internationally.. one day ya'll will wake up and have as much clout and importance in the world as the UK does.. Your Prez is already kissing China's ass..

http://www.fastcompany.com/1738910/the-startup-visa-act-of-2011

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 5:16:57 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I must say, I find it difficult to understand how these kids were being deported in the first place. What was happening - were they just plonked back in the country of their parents' origin? Were there relatives in said original countries who were ready and waiting to take them as wards? I'm trying to picture some kid of five suddenly losing the place she once lived in; her schoolfriends, her school, her neighbourhood, now gone - and in a new country, having to make new friends, get acquainted with new 'parents', possibly even learn a new language . . . the mind boggles.

Yes, Peon, that is exactly what happens.. even some legal born here Americans have been deported and dumped into countries where they dont speak the language.. sometimes ICE will transport illegals hundreds of miles from where the illegals grew up and even into drug gang territory and in the middle of the night to fend for themselves and try to stay alive while they find their way back.. its really sick what the govt does.. but its just not PC for the govt to shoot them themselves..

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 8:19:41 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OokieWithaC

Regardless of a job shortage, I don't see how it's right to try and deport people that have lived in this country since they were children and have grown up as Americans. It is the same as deporting you or any of us to another country because our parents brought us to the United States when we were babies. They wold have very little in common with their original country. The children of illegal immigrants don't deserve to be punished for their parent's doings.


Regardless of job shortage? Are you forgetting that food, shelter, and utilities all cost money and that people must have jobs to have the money to pay for those basic necessities? I think you're severely downplaying the necessity of employment. Nobody is saying the children of illegal immigrants deserve to be punished for what their parents did. Haven't you ever been in a situation where you wanted to help someone, but couldn't because your situation at that time didn't permit it? The reality is, we can't afford to help them when there aren't enough jobs for our own citizens. In fact, as bad as the US economy is right now, they might be better off if they are sent back to the countries they were born in. I often wish I was a citizen of another country. Maybe then I'd be eligible for single-payer health care and would never have to worry about having any home I bought taken away from me because of medical bills.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 8:23:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Get the republicans to fund it if it is such big shit for you.  Everybody is getting cut and has been for some time, right now the focus (with the available monies and resources) is deporting criminal illegals.

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 8:35:52 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


Many of them are probably already working; the economic argument is weak.



If they're kids just graduating from high school, any jobs they have are likely part-time. Soon, they will be competing with American citizens for scarce full-time jobs. As bad as the US economy is right now, they might have a better chance if they're sent back to the country they were born in. At least they'll have affordable health care, which is something the US may not see for years if President Obama isn't re-elected. I'm afraid he's completely blown his chance by giving children of illegals work permits during a job shortage.


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 8:50:10 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

The RCP headline is misleading. When you listen to the video, it's clear that the reporter is referring to immigrants' celebrating what they see as a victory, not pronouncing his own, much less all of CNN's, viewpoint.

Surely you're not suggesting that people should read and understand media before they post them???

Wacky idea, I know!

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 9:31:32 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No matter how hard the hacks try to spin it, immigration just won't neatly fit into our standard partisan battle lines.

Reading through this thread, and recalling others in a similar vein, I wonder if I'm the only poster here who actually knows people this will impact. The stereotype of the illegal migrant farmworker still has a taproot of foundation in our agricultural areas, but it's an ignorant view of who these folks are, and how they are integrated into society.

The dreams and desires that bring them to the United States aren't going to be broken by a fence. It is a problem, however, when the first act they commit coming in, is to express contempt for our laws.


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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 9:31:41 AM   
OokieWithaC


Posts: 11
Joined: 8/23/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: OokieWithaC

Regardless of a job shortage, I don't see how it's right to try and deport people that have lived in this country since they were children and have grown up as Americans. It is the same as deporting you or any of us to another country because our parents brought us to the United States when we were babies. They wold have very little in common with their original country. The children of illegal immigrants don't deserve to be punished for their parent's doings.


Regardless of job shortage? Are you forgetting that food, shelter, and utilities all cost money and that people must have jobs to have the money to pay for those basic necessities? I think you're severely downplaying the necessity of employment. Nobody is saying the children of illegal immigrants deserve to be punished for what their parents did. Haven't you ever been in a situation where you wanted to help someone, but couldn't because your situation at that time didn't permit it? The reality is, we can't afford to help them when there aren't enough jobs for our own citizens. In fact, as bad as the US economy is right now, they might be better off if they are sent back to the countries they were born in. I often wish I was a citizen of another country. Maybe then I'd be eligible for single-payer health care and would never have to worry about having any home I bought taken away from me because of medical bills.



You cannot justify sending people who were brought here by their parents and who grew up in this country and became just as American as legal citizens should be sent to a country they may have little to no familiarity with because of unemployment. There will always be unemployment. You could have been a few months old when you were brought to the United States and you think it is the right thing to do to send that person back to a country they spent only a few months of their life in?

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 10:49:06 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No matter how hard the hacks try to spin it, immigration just won't neatly fit into our standard partisan battle lines.

Reading through this thread, and recalling others in a similar vein, I wonder if I'm the only poster here who actually knows people this will impact. The stereotype of the illegal migrant farmworker still has a taproot of foundation in our agricultural areas, but it's an ignorant view of who these folks are, and how they are integrated into society.

The dreams and desires that bring them to the United States aren't going to be broken by a fence. It is a problem, however, when the first act they commit coming in, is to express contempt for our laws.




I agree with your remarks, Rich, but I would suggest a different spin on the last paragraph.

Firstly, and most importantly, how can you impute contempt for our laws to children brought here by their parents? The Dream Act and Obama's Executive Directive are for the kids.

Secondly, what is a law disrespected if someone is desperate to fend for their family? Are we not replaying Les Miserables here? Maybe more a case of need to survive than disrespect for a law?

Vincent

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 10:55:55 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OokieWithaC


quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: OokieWithaC

Regardless of a job shortage, I don't see how it's right to try and deport people that have lived in this country since they were children and have grown up as Americans. It is the same as deporting you or any of us to another country because our parents brought us to the United States when we were babies. They wold have very little in common with their original country. The children of illegal immigrants don't deserve to be punished for their parent's doings.


Regardless of job shortage? Are you forgetting that food, shelter, and utilities all cost money and that people must have jobs to have the money to pay for those basic necessities? I think you're severely downplaying the necessity of employment. Nobody is saying the children of illegal immigrants deserve to be punished for what their parents did. Haven't you ever been in a situation where you wanted to help someone, but couldn't because your situation at that time didn't permit it? The reality is, we can't afford to help them when there aren't enough jobs for our own citizens. In fact, as bad as the US economy is right now, they might be better off if they are sent back to the countries they were born in. I often wish I was a citizen of another country. Maybe then I'd be eligible for single-payer health care and would never have to worry about having any home I bought taken away from me because of medical bills.



You cannot justify sending people who were brought here by their parents and who grew up in this country and became just as American as legal citizens should be sent to a country they may have little to no familiarity with because of unemployment. There will always be unemployment. You could have been a few months old when you were brought to the United States and you think it is the right thing to do to send that person back to a country they spent only a few months of their life in?


In a healthy economy, if a person actively seeks employment, they won't be unemployed for long. There's a big difference between temporary unemployment in a healthy economy and long term unemployment during a job shortage. Using what if it was me to make your point is only making me wish it was me. That's how much I hate the US health care system and the fact that US tax dollars are spent policing the world instead of on the American people.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 6/16/2012 11:07:08 AM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to OokieWithaC)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 11:06:27 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

No matter how hard the hacks try to spin it, immigration just won't neatly fit into our standard partisan battle lines.

Reading through this thread, and recalling others in a similar vein, I wonder if I'm the only poster here who actually knows people this will impact. The stereotype of the illegal migrant farmworker still has a taproot of foundation in our agricultural areas, but it's an ignorant view of who these folks are, and how they are integrated into society.

The dreams and desires that bring them to the United States aren't going to be broken by a fence. It is a problem, however, when the first act they commit coming in, is to express contempt for our laws.





Because you`re special rich.....of course only you.........knows.

Just like your "respect" for law.

_____________________________

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 12:18:59 PM   
papassion


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Status: offline
I forget which collage it is, but they are offering less than in state tuition to the children of illegals. Yeah, thats right! Children of illegal immigrants will pay LESS tuition than in state children of LEGAL immigrants. I'm sure the legal Mexican community thinks thats fair!

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 12:24:43 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
In a healthy economy, if a person actively seeks employment, they won't be unemployed for long.


I can't see how that adds up in every case if there aren't the jobs available. Besides, many think that in a healthy economy, there's always - or should be always - a level of unemployment. This is because where there's full employment, or near full employment, wages tend to get driven up. The usual laws of supply and demand apply: the demand for job applicants begins to outstrip the supply of them . . . .

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/16/2012 12:44:48 PM >

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 2:35:03 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Todays Drudge news story links re Obama back door amnesty vote-getting plan:

quote:



Obama's policy strategy: Ignore laws...

WASHPOST: Young illegal aliens' amnesty to tighten competition for jobs, college...

'Are We in Revolutionary Times?'

Unchecked presidential power?

PRESIDENT PRICKLY IN ROSE GARDEN...

SCOLDS REPORTER: 'I didn't ask for argument'...

http://www.drudgereport.com/



Just like with Rush Limbaugh, pay the slightest attention to the facts he lays down and its easy to see why leftists hate hate hate the man

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 3:47:01 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Anyway, I'm with the Right wingers on this matter, since with their love of the Bible they'll be going with 'But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God'.

God bless Obama for his traditional Republican values, and screw the Democrats for their typical nastiness towards those at the bottom. As if any adult's very slightly diminished employment prospects could match the misery and horror of a child, uprooted from everything he or she knows, and sent to a foreign country. I would *definitely* vote for a true, Christian Republican president like Obama if I were American.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/16/2012 3:48:26 PM >

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RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 4:08:35 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		except this isn't an amnesty program because these people who were brought here as children by their parents did nothing wrong, in that they had no say in the matter of coming here. How can amnesty be offered to an innocent person?

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: CNN: Obama Decision To Stop Deporting Young Illegal... - 6/16/2012 4:11:14 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~

The undocumented children are easy to scapegoat because they are so very visible. But are they a serious factor in why middle class wages have been basically stagnant for the past three decades? Are they to blame for the 30,000 factories America has lost to outsourcing to Asian manufacturing? How many people in this thread are typing on Apple computers that were manufactured and assembled in China? How many are driving Toyotas assembled in Kentucky from parts made in Asia? How many are wearing Nikes assembled in China? Where is the angst against the millions of jobs gone to China, Vietnam, India, and Bangledesh? Where is the outcry against the Banks and Mortgage companies that pushed unsustainable loans, tied them into bundles to be gambled on stock exchanges, and 'insured' by derivatives with insufficient capital? Where is all the bitching and moaning against the fall of the house of cards ~ excess home borrowing and credit card overload ~ that lead to the Crash and resultant high unemployment and foreclosures? It seems shameful to me, this bitching against high school kids who caused us no harm. You should be bitching at the pols and bankers who caused the problem but it is easier to complain about Obama's policies. The Stock Market is up, corporations are making profits, many are sitting on bundles of cash, but job growth is slow. Oh, Obama's policies caused so much uncertainty! These students are going to take too many jobs! Bullocks. All your anger is misdirected just the way Rush and Drudge and the rest are happy to point the way. 'nuff said by me. The kids are okay. Leave em alone. Rant over

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