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Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 3:45:24 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
Status: offline 		It is, I think, pretty cool, being water. If allowed to seek its level and find its own path, it has the ability to change the face of the Earth itself. That is power and as someone who appreciates power, I have a great respect for water.

Still ...

I know that water can be captured - the shape and depth determined by the container. Once captured and formed water can be frozen, in perpetuity should it be necessary but even then the power of water is only muted. There is no damage to its potential, no diminishment of its purpose. One who controls water in such a manner..

Well..

That there is some power, too.

I don't necessarily need power when I'm engaging in some temporary perversion immersion. That's like a good game of chess or playing jacks. It's something fun, almost always engergizing even when it's utterly exhausting. Yep, call me an advocate of TPI.

For ongoing relationships, I need way more than a game of chess to remain interested and one in which authority is transfered to a single part of a given unit has to start with power. Power takes strength of some sort but how that manifests will be different for folks and what it takes to feed or maintain it will also differ.

My life, my world, my universe: Dance was not made for music.. music was made for dance. You can have power without authority, but you can't have authority without power.

What's the relationship, if any, between power and authority in your life, your world, your universe?

trying an edit for clarity:

Ummmm... hmmm. I'm drawing a blank on how to ask. I love power and talking about power; authority seems to go hand in hand with some folks disavowing power as a necessary component to their dynamic, others who believe authority comes first then you can weild your power.

Just curious as to how the two relate when seen through eyes other than my own.

Better?

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 6/16/2012 4:36:26 PM >

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 3:58:18 PM   
chelita30


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Status: offline 		I'm not sure my mind has expanded to these dimensions yet......

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 4:22:10 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


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Status: offline 		Damn, I thought I was complex at times. My mind is screaming for simplicity after reading this.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 4:53:35 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Power and authority are the rock of our relationship. It's how we started the relationship.
He adores power and authority, he feeds off of it and it nourishes him.
Without him having both power and authority there's no way I would have even finished my cup of tea the night we met. He had it from the moment I saw him walking into the cafe.
He becomes so much more energized when he is able to utilize it, be it on me or anyone else.


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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 4:53:39 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Ahh so much I could say but I really don't like making big posts...
In my mind theres so much of fear/respect in both concepts...
Practically, for me, power is taking control of someones physical and emotional responses, and all the wounderful ways that can be accomplished!
And also this can be applied to ones self in the form of self mastery, "power" to control yourself is dam good stuff, deciding who you want to be and then making it so, is one of the greatest things you could strive for in my opinion.
And authority would be more on the D,s side, like your sub deferring to you when making decisions e.c.t.
which I do admit makes me warm and fuzzy.

-ARIES



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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 5:04:23 PM   
kyraofMists


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Status: offline 		Totally love the analogy to water! My mind started wondering in all the different directions that I am like water. I am adaptable, moveable, changeable... I choose the path of least resistance, but if something stands on the way of where I really want to be, I slowly wear away at it until it is no longer an obstacle. Really like the concept.

Many years ago, when you talked about power I didn't quite understand what you were referring to and then on day sitting around a camp fire, my Lord tells me to go get him a pop (yeah, I say pop now that I am Canadian). His brother says "Kyra, sit down" and I sit. I had to actually think about who I was supposed to behave at that moment. They both have that same "something" that makes me automatically obey them (our youngest daughter has it too, makes life interesting).

For me, that power is what makes me automatically obey. That's when I chose (as if I had a choice) to give him all the authority in my life.

Hope you and himself are doing well.


Kyra

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 5:29:32 PM   
landrezy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Totally love the analogy to water! My mind started wondering in all the different directions that I am like water. I am adaptable, moveable, changeable... I choose the path of least resistance, but if something stands on the way of where I really want to be, I slowly wear away at it until it is no longer an obstacle. Really like the concept.

Kyra


Read the Tao Te Ching. Or watch Bruce Lee movies.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 11:02:45 PM   
RaspberryLemon


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Status: offline 		Interesting post, BitaTruble!

In this context, I would say... Authority is the practical application of power.

Without power, one can only have superficial authority. Without authority, power is merely potential. To have both is to be in control. The two concepts work hand in hand.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 11:14:24 PM   
Kana


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Status: offline 		My water analogy is surfing.
Kinda zen-esque.
I see life as a giant wave-I ride it.
I let the power of the wave push me in some directions, but I also cut my own course across the face of the wave, knowing that failure to do so successfully can lead to wipe-out.

And I really, really use this in scenes.
When I was a kid I would plan out scenes to the last detail, whip out every instrument in the toy box, just go to town.
As I got older things simplified. I use less, need less to make the experience and I plan very little.
Usually I pick out an object or two that look interesting, then go to work, letting the energy of the interactions, my desires, her responses and the way things are surging to steer where the scene is gonna go and ride that fucker as far as I can.
It's pretty fucking amazing.


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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/16/2012 11:38:25 PM   
ARIES83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RaspberryLemon

Interesting post, BitaTruble!

In this context, I would say... Authority is the practical application of power.

Without power, one can only have superficial authority. Without authority, power is merely potential. To have both is to be in control. The two concepts work hand in hand.


Alot of how you describe it i don't disagree with but Im not sure I agree either.
Id be interested how you would describe the relationship of authority/power/control
with Mahatma gandhi, or jesus.

-ARIES

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/17/2012 5:22:01 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RaspberryLemon

Interesting post, BitaTruble!

In this context, I would say... Authority is the practical application of power.

Without power, one can only have superficial authority. Without authority, power is merely potential. To have both is to be in control. The two concepts work hand in hand.


I agree with this very much. I would be curious to understand Aries concept of the terms, as to understand how he disagrees.

I think we've all seen examples of authority without power. I saw it multiple times in people in the military. I've seen it many times in the work force. People that have been given authority but are not leaders. They have no personal power and those being forced to 'serve' them know it, and resent them for it.

Then you have the flip side, a person with power, but no authority. While it's frustrating at times to be that person, personally, I would rather be in this situation. It's been my experience that, with power, the authority will come. I am banking on it in my career change.

Power will be recognized always, and honoured, IF the person with it is honourable. It doesn't have to shout itself from the mountain tops, it doesn't have to self promote. It can be had by the quietest, most seemingly, at first glance, meek of souls. Just look at the examples given above. Jesus and Ghandi. It is probable (I've not met either...) that they didn't self promote their power. I think they were both pretty focused on other things. Both had a power/charisma that, because they were honourable men, inspired others to relinquish authority and follow.

It is that way with all great leaders.




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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/17/2012 7:00:01 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		I wasn't really disagreeing, Im not sure myself about it all, but I can tell
you my concept.

I see there being a couple of types of authority,
Authority that is based in the person who wields it.
Authority wielded by a proxy for something with power.
Hmmm... Authority being a practial application of power dosen't quite
ring true to me.
I might describe it as, Authority being the voice of power,
and control would be the application of will.

I dont want to make the post two long, hate long posts!

-ARIES

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 10:23:35 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
Status: offline 		For me, "power" is the ability to make something happen. Authority is the tool by which I do that (in this context). I don't really focus on "power" much, but I suppose I'd construct it something like this...

Personal Power -> Dominance -> Authority -> Worldly Power (power over others)

Honestly though, I tend to be more interested in responsibility.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 10:54:07 AM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Alot of how you describe it i don't disagree with but Im not sure I agree either.
Id be interested how you would describe the relationship of authority/power/control
with Mahatma gandhi, or jesus.

-ARIES

Influential.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 3:36:10 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Alot of how you describe it i don't disagree with but Im not sure I agree either.
Id be interested how you would describe the relationship of authority/power/control
with Mahatma gandhi, or jesus.

-ARIES

Influential.


Everything is Influential,
The butterfly effect... (the effect, not the movie)
But yer I get your meaning, those guys had alot of
Influence, still... it doesn't say much.

From my point of view, I highly respect gandhi, even
Though he was toted in some places as being a muslim
leader, from what I know of him, he didn't perscribe to
any one religion, And was devoted to the search for truth.

Jesus on the otherhand... Correct me if im wrong, but all
He had was from being the son of god, a god who had the
Power to see and punish anything you have ever
Done... And alot of the religions that he sprouted
Have nothing to do with truth... Just mention evolution to or
Dinosaurs or chinese people to someone very religious you know,
and be entertained for hours by the results...

Im going to apologise now to any very religious people here,
You can believe what you want to believe, Im not bagging out
Your god and Im sure jesus was a nice guy when you get to
Know him. they are my opinions based on my experiences.

My roommate is seven-day eventist, and a constant frustration,
but I will admit, he is the only person I have gotten into such
deep debates with about religion, so my opinion is greatly coloured
by him.

Taking gandhi and jesus out of the question, I would be interested in how
everyone sees Reward/Punishment being related to Authority/Power/Control?

-ARIES

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 6:32:45 PM   
RaspberryLemon


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Status: offline 		LaTigresse's post elaborated on what I meant perfectly. So a thanks for explaining it better than I could. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I would be interested in how everyone sees Reward/Punishment being related to Authority/Power/Control?
I don't think they are always necessarily related, but in line with my earlier explanation of the concepts: reward and punishment are some potential tools for authority.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 6:35:38 PM   
catize


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quote:

Honestly though, I tend to be more interested in responsibility.



Yes! Because without responsibility, power simply becomes brute force.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 7:00:21 PM   
ARIES83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RaspberryLemon

LaTigresse's post elaborated on what I meant perfectly. So a thanks for explaining it better than I could. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83
I would be interested in how everyone sees Reward/Punishment being related to Authority/Power/Control?
I don't think they are always necessarily related, but in line with my earlier explanation of the concepts: reward and punishment are some potential tools for authority.


Thats interesting, I think of punishment/reward
As the foundation of the other three, I can't think
How I would separate them. They may not always be
obvious on the surface but I think they are always
There in some form, at the core.
Diffrent point of view, different experiences i suppose.
Like i said before Im not saying your wrong, we
just see the world through diffrent eyes i suppose.

-ARIES

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 7:29:10 PM   
Endivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

I would be interested in how
everyone sees Reward/Punishment being related to Authority/Power/Control?

-ARIES



I tell all the girls I'm in a relationship with the same thing. There are two ways of doing things, My way, and My other way.


There is this really fantastic scene in the series Justified, wich I could not for the life of me find an online clip of. In it, one of the charachters relates to training dogs with love or a firm hand. He explains that if you choose a firm hand the dog only behaves to the point that he fears you. But if you give the dog love, even when he makes a mistake, and he knows he's made a mistake, he'll love you for the rest of your life. The act of mercy in this instance, lets the dog know that you could punish it, and choose not to. It's a reference to positive and negative reinforcement in psychology just in a very hillbilly way.

It quite aptly demonstrates the way I take on motivation. In pyschology, positive and negative reinforcement are used throughout our entire lives. We even use it on ourselves. We weigh the rewards to the costs, and decide what we are willing to accept. It is no different in an authoritive dynamic, the primary rule of thumb being that if it is within the paramaters of what make you both happy and accepting of eachother, you'll do it. Regardless of how kinky or vanilla it might be.

I liken positive reinforcement to things that make you both happy. And negative reinforcement to taking away those kinds of things. A common example I see is people talking about orgasm denial and such. I'm a bit more strict, but everyone is different.

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RE: Bumpin Fuglies: Correlation of Power & Authority - 6/18/2012 8:40:33 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Ahh, I think we may have very similar ways of
Looking at positive/ negative reinforcement Endivius.



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