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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/20/2012 8:37:27 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		At least the cow's dying is proving useful. What usefulness is coming from a marine mammal's death because it starves from swallowing plastic bags, or an animal that gets its neck caught in one of those plastic things that holds 6-packs of soda?


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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/20/2012 9:15:10 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I have personally performed necropsies on marine mammals that starved to death with a full stomach because their intestines were blocked by a plastic bag.



Yeah... and that sucks, despite animals dying every day for a myriad of reasons.  However, to pretend (as some do), that banning plastic grocery bags is going to solve this (again, as some do) is completely false, and more about people buying into the propaganda that plastic bags are killing millions of sea animals.

Fact is... greater marine pollutants than plastic bags include: cigarettes/cigarette filters (80% higher);  food wrappers (47% higher);  caps/lids (42% higher); plastic cups, plates, forks, spoons, etc. (23% higher), and so forth.  Thus, the hysteria over plastic bags is mostly propaganda and myth.

See:  http://www.oceanconservancy.org/pdf/Marine_Debris_2011_Report_OC.pdf


*Note:  For the record, I've been a LONG TIME user of reusable bags... by CHOICE -- I like that they can carry more, and won't break.  However, that doesn't mean I'm going to buy into all the hysteria surrounding plastic bags... the FACTS simply don't support the propaganda being put forth by some.   



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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/20/2012 9:25:38 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The world's largest manufacturer of paper bags is in Florence, KY. Paper Bags = American jobs.
http://durobag.com/

International Plastics which appears to be the major player in plastic bags has plants in China and Taiwan.



And...<drum roll>...

"The largest manufacturer of reusable bags is China, while thousands of U.S. workers are employed manufacturing plastic bags in the U.S."

Source: http://www.wasterecyclingnews.com/article/20120206/OPINION03/302069993



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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/20/2012 11:42:16 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		So the fact that plastic bags isn't the only source of harm to wild life means we should nothing?

Isn't it better that we start someplace and work toward a better future for all of earth's creatures human and animal alike in the future?


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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 12:03:00 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		Save your "we should do nothing" transparent bullshit for someone who'll buy that garbage -- or show where I stated that.  You won't, because you can't!!!  What I've stated is there's a vast difference between the hysteria/propaganda and the FACTS regarding plastic bags.  They're not the plague of the environment, and in fact, have shown other things that are FAR worse!!!  So why aren't you bitching about THOSE things?!! Because nobody has TOLD you to bitch about them... that's why.  Friggin' sheep.

As already stated... I've used reusable bags for quite some time -- and didn't need the fucking government to force me into doing so.





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 6/21/2012 12:13:39 AM >

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 1:23:22 AM   
Edwynn


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I didn't need the government to tell me to use a seat belt more than ten years after I took it on my own to do so, so what?

Dumbasses who didn't use seat belts raised the cost of insurance for everybody. Insurance companies are still crooks, but the rates rised less steeply as result of the law.

You or I and a few others might take a worthy bag into the grocery store; as it stands, most people do not.

The purpose of proper regulation is so that society does not have to think so much, at every moment, of the environmental impact we impose, for just going to the grocery store, the bank, the gas station, etc.

After all day at work, we're supposed to have environmental concerns at top of the list, at all times? I think that we're too tired for that.

We pay enough taxes, let the government do the proper job, so we don't have to think of all repercussions of every of hundreds of individual actions we take every day and present ourselves with yet more 'personal choice' over yet another hundred minor details of life.

I didn't need the government to tell me to read food labels, but were it not for the government there wouldn't be any food label to read. Most people don't read food labels. But I do, so the government is just catering to some few of us, right? It actually takes only a few times of reading the labels and reading from good sources regarding food production, then I don't bother reading the labels beyond that. But there are always others just recently educating themselves.

What a burden on society we are!

But feel yourself to be in good company with Monsanto, who have taken it upon themselves the task of relieving society of any information whatsoever regarding food production, especially their own significant chemical and biological contribution to it.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/21/2012 2:08:43 AM >

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 1:38:10 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

...let the government do the proper job, so we don't have to think



You may be happy to let others "think" for you, but that's your failing -- and laziness.

quote:



What a burden on society I am



Given, by your own admission, you're unwilling to "think" for yourself, yes... that would render you quite the "burden"... in fact, the weakest link.




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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 1:42:24 AM   
Edwynn


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So then, you make 2,000 good personal and environmental decisions per day, every day, you are telling us? And you assume everybody else does the same, right? How much time for proper research regarding every decision in life do you have? Maybe you have a lot less going on than most people do, so then have the time for such extensive pursuit.

The fact is, I think well enough to vote for or hire people I think best suited to do the job they are assigned.

It's called delegating. That 'specialization of tasks' thing has been around for a few millenia now, sorry if it escaped your notice.

Does the CEO who hires other people for various tasks indicate that he/she can't think for him/herself?

THINK!, girl, THINK!




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/21/2012 2:02:43 AM >

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 8:14:10 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The world's largest manufacturer of paper bags is in Florence, KY. Paper Bags = American jobs.
http://durobag.com/

International Plastics which appears to be the major player in plastic bags has plants in China and Taiwan.



And...<drum roll>...

"The largest manufacturer of reusable bags is China, while thousands of U.S. workers are employed manufacturing plastic bags in the U.S."

Source: http://www.wasterecyclingnews.com/article/20120206/OPINION03/302069993



I said paper bags, not reusable (fabric). Nice try tho.
Use paper, put Americans to work.

ETA: MSLA, I'm kinda surprised you're not in agreement with the young lady in the OP. All she is trying to do is prevent a heavy handed state government from dictating what individual municipalities can and cannot do.
I thought conservatives were against a large, dictatorial central government and wanted more power spread to the local level.
It's what conservatives USED to be for. Now, it seems only Libertarians feel that way.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/21/2012 8:24:36 AM >

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 10:38:29 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		Again, YOU may lack the capacity, or desire, to think for yourself -- that's your failing.


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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 10:59:35 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The world's largest manufacturer of paper bags is in Florence, KY. Paper Bags = American jobs.
http://durobag.com/

International Plastics which appears to be the major player in plastic bags has plants in China and Taiwan.



And...<drum roll>...

"The largest manufacturer of reusable bags is China, while thousands of U.S. workers are employed manufacturing plastic bags in the U.S."

Source: http://www.wasterecyclingnews.com/article/20120206/OPINION03/302069993



I said paper bags, not reusable (fabric).



You referenced "paper" as well as "plastic" and I added the "reusable" -- which, according to the source, are mostly manufactured in CHINA (i.e., no American jobs if manufactured in China).

quote:



Use paper, put Americans to work.



According the the SAME source/article,

quote:



"...thousands of U.S. workers are employed manufacturing plastic bags in the U.S."

Source: http://www.wasterecyclingnews.com/article/20120206/OPINION03/302069993



As to the OP?!!  I've not taken a position one way or the other.  My posts have pertained to the facts/myths surrounding the plastic bag ban issue in general.



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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 11:02:58 AM   
Edwynn


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You lack the capacity, or the desire, to think, period. Such inability is not the virtue that you delude yourself into assuming, or that sheer 'attitude' can overcome. Sorry.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/21/2012 11:05:26 AM >

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 11:59:22 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		Your delusions of adequacy are quite impressive -- don't let anyone ever tell you different.



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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 11:59:49 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA


As to the OP?!!  I've not taken a position one way or the other.  My posts have pertained to the facts/myths surrounding the plastic bag ban issue in general.



My point (and the point of the OP) is that if the people of a municipality wish to ban or allow something, the central government needs to butt out.
A large, dictatorial central government is not what Conservatives are all about (at least, they didn't used to be).
Now, sometimes, I feel the so-called Conservatives want to exert more control over the individual and micro-manage the local governments even more than they used to accuse the liberals of.
Big government is NOT conservative.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 12:24:12 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Save your "we should do nothing" transparent bullshit for someone who'll buy that garbage -- or show where I stated that.  You won't, because you can't!!!  What I've stated is there's a vast difference between the hysteria/propaganda and the FACTS regarding plastic bags.  They're not the plague of the environment, and in fact, have shown other things that are FAR worse!!!  So why aren't you bitching about THOSE things?!! Because nobody has TOLD you to bitch about them... that's why.  Friggin' sheep.

As already stated... I've used reusable bags for quite some time -- and didn't need the fucking government to force me into doing so.



It's not just plastic bags....it's juice bottles, cellophane, 6 pack rings....I can't find it at the moment but there's a horrible photo of a (now) full grown turtle (tortoise?) who somehow in his youth got a plastic band of some sort wrapped around his middle and then, full grown, it shows the tortoise looking like a badly misshapen Barbie doll, soft as he was growing, but his middle never grew larger than that band (to be more clear, the tortoise was naturally and at both ends about 39 inches across....at the middle....about 10 inches).

http://blog.ted.com/2009/02/24/capt_charles_mo/

TED conference on the garbage patch and plastics.

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 12:44:02 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

My point (and the point of the OP) is that if the people of a municipality wish to ban or allow something, the central government needs to butt out.



Agreed.



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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 12:50:21 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

It's not just plastic bags....it's juice bottles, cellophane, 6 pack rings...



Yes, I know... see PDF Pages 14-15:  http://www.oceanconservancy.org/pdf/Marine_Debris_2011_Report_OC.pdf



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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 1:04:44 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

My point (and the point of the OP) is that if the people of a municipality wish to ban or allow something, the central government needs to butt out.



Agreed.




Y'all stop the fucking presses.


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 1:08:57 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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Status: offline 		I really don't understand why people in here are bitching about their government at least pretending to represent the interests of the electorate rather than those of the corporate sector. Isn't that why you have a government in the first place, rather than living in a plutocracy out of a bad science fiction film?

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RE: Plastic bag industry wages war against 12 year old - 6/21/2012 1:40:16 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Your delusions of adequacy are quite impressive -- don't let anyone ever tell you different.






You still got purty lips, if nothing else. And I'm sure nobody tells you different.


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