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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/26/2012 9:34:54 AM   
Mupainurpleasure


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Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline 		It brings to mind King Canute. The sea leavel rise in the northeast is dangerously accerlerating.....whether you belive in global warming or not we are experiencing it's consequences. I think as with evoloution there is no amount of data to sway people with faith that believe it's a liberal construct. When the waters are spalashing at their feet they'' claim it's a weather eventmore inconvenient and predicted facts

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 9:17:31 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		In regards to the article posted by Mupainurpleasure:

- It is possible to sail around the world. That means that all oceans are interconnected on the surface.
- Water, which is what the ocean is made out of, is self-leveling. Therefore, if you add water on one side of an ocean, it doesn't make that side of the ocean higher or deeper.

My question is simply this: How is it possible that an ocean level rising only effects one side of an ocean, or effect one part of the worlds coastlines more than the rest since water levels itself out?

I think anyone with an ounce of sense would ask these questions when reading a story about how one particular bit of coastline is effected more than any other in the world. Because of the nature of water, it is more likely that there is some other factor besides climate change to be considered here. Erosion could be a factor, the currents could be weakening the land underneath this section of coastline making the land slowly sink into the ocean.

However, one thing I will need a lot of convincing of is that for some reason water acts differently on the Eastern coast of North America than it does in Europe, and... by virtue of the fact that all oceans are interconnected... the rest of the world. Perhaps one of you climate change nutters can explain that to me.

-SD-


(in reply to Mupainurpleasure)
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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 9:20:20 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

In regards to the article posted by Mupainurpleasure:

- It is possible to sail around the world. That means that all oceans are interconnected on the surface.
- Water, which is what the ocean is made out of, is self-leveling. Therefore, if you add water on one side of an ocean, it doesn't make that side of the ocean higher or deeper.

My question is simply this: How is it possible that an ocean level rising only effects one side of an ocean, or effect one part of the worlds coastlines more than the rest since water levels itself out?

I think anyone with an ounce of sense would ask these questions when reading a story about how one particular bit of coastline is effected more than any other in the world. Because of the nature of water, it is more likely that there is some other factor besides climate change to be considered here. Erosion could be a factor, the currents could be weakening the land underneath this section of coastline making the land slowly sink into the ocean.

However, one thing I will need a lot of convincing of is that for some reason water acts differently on the Eastern coast of North America than it does in Europe, and... by virtue of the fact that all oceans are interconnected... the rest of the world. Perhaps one of you climate change nutters can explain that to me.

-SD-



Anyone with an ounce of sense would have read the whole article. Prevailing winds and currents, thermal expansion in the tropics along with the centripedal force from the earth's rotation, differential solar and lunar tidal effects depending on latitude and basin shape combined with Coriolis effects mean that the level of the sea surface is far from self-leveling.
Try passing a Jr Hi physical science course before you comment on such things in the future please.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/27/2012 9:24:47 AM >

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 9:39:42 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
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Status: offline 		In other words, you really cannot explain it.

Lunar and solar tidal effects are not caused by manmade global warming. Neither are prevailing winds, or thermal expansion in the tropics. The tropics are among the least industrialized areas of the planet, and they are more directly affected by the sun. The earths rotation is the same everywhere on the planet. And the ocean is in fact, self-leveling.

You'll regurgitate everything the liberal group-think wants you to, won't you Hillwilliam? They must be so proud of you!

-SD-


< Message edited by SadistDave -- 6/27/2012 9:41:18 AM >

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 9:47:18 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		My question is simply this: How is it possible that an ocean level rising only effects one side of an ocean, or effect one part of the worlds coastlines more than the rest since water levels itself out?





Question?

Why would anyone beat off to stupid shit like this?   Panama Canal locks? uhhhhh........Lake Erie Locks, geez, have I covered them all???? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... 

Self-leveling in what way, and then if thats the case we are lookin pretty fuckin stupid on the digging of the panama canal.

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 9:48:29 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

In other words, you really cannot explain it.

Lunar and solar tidal effects are not caused by manmade global warming. Neither are prevailing winds, or thermal expansion in the tropics. The tropics are among the least industrialized areas of the planet, and they are more directly affected by the sun. The earths rotation is the same everywhere on the planet. And the ocean is in fact, self-leveling.

You'll regurgitate everything the liberal group-think wants you to, won't you Hillwilliam? They must be so proud of you!

-SD-


I could explain it perfectly if you had the math capability. Seems that Marine Science was one of my double majors and physics was one of my minors along with chemistry.
Thermal expansion occurs in the tropics because DUHHHHHHHHHHHH it's fucking HOTTER there. That means that the water is GASSSSSP warmer and warm water expands.
the earth's rotational speed is not the same everywhere (that's what drives the coriolis effect). Rotational speed is a wee bit over 1000 MPH at the equator and zero at the poles. Centripedal force is also stronger at the equator causing a bulge there. If you could pass 8th grade algebra, you'd understand.
I didn't quote any liberal group there. You have no fucking idea what I think and I daresay that if you could, you wouldn't understand it.
Again, if you want to talk physical oceanography, learn some basic math skills.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 9:56:08 AM   
SadistDave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

My question is simply this: How is it possible that an ocean level rising only effects one side of an ocean, or effect one part of the worlds coastlines more than the rest since water levels itself out?





Question?

Why would anyone beat off to stupid shit like this?   Panama Canal locks? uhhhhh........Lake Erie Locks, geez, have I covered them all???? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... 

Self-leveling in what way, and then if thats the case we are lookin pretty fuckin stupid on the digging of the panama canal.


Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me.

However, you are correct. You actually do look pretty stupid not knowing that the Panama Canal was built in order to move ships through a landmass. You also look pretty stupid not knowing how a lock works. Maybe this animation will help.

-SD-



(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:06:42 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Here's the difference in sea levels between the Atlantic and Pacific sides of the Panama Canal.

http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzpanamaocean.htm

Add to that the difference in tidal range (6 meters on the Pacific side vs 0.3 meters on the Atlantic) and if you could put a sea level canal thru (t's been considered), you'd have an average 5-6 knot current running west to east.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to SadistDave)
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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:08:58 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


I could explain it perfectly if you had the math capability. Seems that Marine Science was one of my double majors and physics was one of my minors along with chemistry.
Thermal expansion occurs in the tropics because DUHHHHHHHHHHHH it's fucking HOTTER there. That means that the water is GASSSSSP warmer and warm water expands.
the earth's rotational speed is not the same everywhere (that's what drives the coriolis effect). Rotational speed is a wee bit over 1000 MPH at the equator and zero at the poles. Centripedal force is also stronger at the equator causing a bulge there. If you could pass 8th grade algebra, you'd understand.
I didn't quote any liberal group there. You have no fucking idea what I think and I daresay that if you could, you wouldn't understand it.
Again, if you want to talk physical oceanography, learn some basic math skills.


So the SUN heats up the planet, and the TIDES are effected by an effect of PHYSICS transferring heat via the Coriolis Effect

Essentially what you are claiming is that there are several forces and factors that have nothing to do with mankind. Fine. I agree with that. That wasn't what I was asking. But as usual you fail to actually understand the questions.

I sincerely doubt you have a degree in anything since you apparently cannot distinguish the difference between MAN-MADE climate change and HOW THE PLANET WORKS.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 6/27/2012 10:09:32 AM >

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:15:53 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave


I sincerely doubt you have a degree in anything since you apparently cannot distinguish the difference between MAN-MADE climate change and HOW THE PLANET WORKS.

-SD-

You didn't ask about manmade climate change and I didn't address it whatsoever. Nice try at a strawman but it aint working. In case your memory is failing, you said "the sea is self levelling"
Go back and read slowly this time and feel free to move your lips while doing so. Comprehension is your friend.
I proved that your claim is totally incorrect. Sea levels are different in different oceans, different basins and even different parts of the same ocean due to the abovementioned forces. If there were no differences, there wouldn't be much in the way of currents.

"So the SUN heats up the planet, and the TIDES are effected by an effect of PHYSICS transferring heat via the Coriolis Effect " seriously. If this is the extent of your comprehension, I certainly hope you have other talents because that isn't even fucking close.


< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/27/2012 10:17:36 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:20:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Tonight Sadist Dave sleeps with the fishes in the deep blue sea.

Dom Coryolis

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:37:45 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


ROFLMAO!

You're absolutely right about one thing! I guess I didn't ask what one has to do with the other. Meant to, but didn't. LOL.

Unfortunately though, your explanation is still incorrect. In order for your explanation to hold water, the Coriolis Effect would have to work only in certain areas of a given body of water, and not in others. The same planetart influences that drive the Coriolis effect in New York, are going to similar at every point on that basic latitude, but they will be most similar within the same body of water. So for your explanation to be valid, the Coriolis Effect would not work on the European or North African Atlantic coastlines.

That is obviously not true. The Coriolis Effect is the same on European Coasts, and instead of heat from the tropics, they have heat coming up through the currents from the equatorial waters of Africa, and a whole lot of ocean.

The same is true for your argument about Centripetal Force. That force is not going to be stronger on a single coastline because it is a global phenomenon.

Then there is your prevailing winds argument. How fast does the wind have to blow to move surface water and hold it in place? Hurricanes cannot even exert that sort of wind power, so the prevailing winds causing the water to be deeper on one side of an ocean is obviously untrue as well.

-SD-

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:44:43 AM   
SadistDave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Here's the difference in sea levels between the Atlantic and Pacific sides of the Panama Canal.

http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzpanamaocean.htm

Add to that the difference in tidal range (6 meters on the Pacific side vs 0.3 meters on the Atlantic) and if you could put a sea level canal thru (t's been considered), you'd have an average 5-6 knot current running west to east.


About.com... really? That's the citation you want to use?

-SD-


(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 10:49:20 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Uh, nice bit of fluffery and buncombe.  Please print the tidal tables for whatever city in china and whatever city in massachusettes lines up, and we will have a lookie see.

You lose, take off your pants.   You dont want to do this, dude....you will look like a goddamn fool.

Just as it can rain in detroit lakes minnesota and not rain in fargo north dakota, the coryolis effect does not have to be homogenous at all latitudes at the same time.  Unless the sun (for one thing) is...and the temprature (for one thing) is... and the wind is the same direction and strenght and the same high and low pressure areas (for one thing) is.... and the moon is all places on this globe at that latitutude and angle at all times (for one thing) is....     

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 11:24:57 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Presumably on planet Rush all of the coastline is at exactly the same level, and none of it is any lower lying than anywhere else.

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 11:37:38 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
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Status: offline 		Presumably on planet Dumbass, water levels go up and down based on whether there is a hill or valley on the coast.

On planet Reality, low lying areas make inlets and bays which are surrounded by higher ground.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 6/27/2012 11:38:04 AM >

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 11:40:23 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

On planet Reality, low lying areas make inlets and bays which are surrounded by higher ground.


Making ignoring the risk of rising sea levels pretty dumb indeed.

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 11:46:49 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

On planet Reality, low lying areas make inlets and bays which are surrounded by higher ground.actual tidal science


Making ignoring the risk of rising sea levels pretty dumb indeed.


LOL, Agreed! Too bad that's not what we're talking about. It would make for a much more amiable conversation. Actually though, I think you have a fine point here. Maybe getting back to the topic would be a good idea so Hillwilliam and Mnottertail don't have to have their ideas challenged by actual tidal science.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 6/27/2012 11:48:23 AM >

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 11:53:52 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Here's the difference in sea levels between the Atlantic and Pacific sides of the Panama Canal.

http://geography.about.com/library/faq/blqzpanamaocean.htm

Add to that the difference in tidal range (6 meters on the Pacific side vs 0.3 meters on the Atlantic) and if you could put a sea level canal thru (t's been considered), you'd have an average 5-6 knot current running west to east.


About.com... really? That's the citation you want to use?

-SD-



I didn't think you could handle anything more in depth.

Face it. Whatever ignorant putz was ranting on the radio a couple of hours ago about the sea being self leveling and sea level the same worldwide is wrong and you bought it hook line and sinker.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 6/27/2012 11:57:56 AM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: NC Ignores Science, Tries To Make Sea Level Rise Il... - 6/27/2012 11:57:02 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

On planet Reality, low lying areas make inlets and bays which are surrounded by higher ground.actual tidal science


Making ignoring the risk of rising sea levels pretty dumb indeed.


LOL, Agreed! Too bad that's not what we're talking about. It would make for a much more amiable conversation. Actually though, I think you have a fine point here. Maybe getting back to the topic would be a good idea so Hillwilliam and Mnottertail don't have to have their ideas challenged by actual tidal science.

-SD-

Tides and sea level (the topic of the thread, remember) are totally different subjects. Tides are periodic, predictable and temporary. Sea level is relatively permanent. (or we wish it was at least). Nice try but you still aren't smarter than a fifth grader.

Do try to stay on topic.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 40
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