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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 3:03:20 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
The hostages North was concerned with weren't the
American embassy in Tehran hostages.

Iran Contra had nothing to do with Carter.

She does. You are conflating two different Iranian events.



No I am not, one led directly to the other... If Iran Contra didn't happen, would Iran have released to hostages 5 minutes after Reagan was inaugurated?
Or are you saying that Iran only released the hostages because Reagan won, and the Shah died?
Either way, it only proves that Carter had nothing to do with the release of the hostages, despite her claim... Unless you count losing to Reagan as a successful negotiation.

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 6/26/2012 3:04:58 PM >

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 3:11:49 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		And you just made the case that St. Wrinklemeat  traded WMD for hostages. In violation of our laws.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 3:12:44 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		But that's a trivial thing. Quite unlike (say) lying about getting his cock sucked.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 3:44:58 PM   
Winterapple


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Status: offline 		Rob, they were two different sets of hostages.
Carter's hostage crisis involved people taken
at the US embassy in Tehran after the
Iranian revolution. The Iran Contra business
did not happen before that. Iran Contra
took place while Reagan was president
not Carter. The hostages were taken in
Beirut by Hezballoh not Iranians.
One thing did not lead to the other.
It's like saying Watergate led to the
Bay of Pigs.

Here's a rundown of the facts easily found
online by reputable sources.
January 1, 1979, Carter enrages anti
Shah Iranians by praising the Shah in
a toast that is televised.
January 16, 1979, Shah flees into exile
Febuary 1979, the Iranian revolution occurs
October 22,1979, The US allows the
Shah to enter the US for cancer treatment
Nov 4, 1979, The hostages are taken in Tehran
Carter applies sanctions
Nov 12 1979, Stops the importing of Iran
Nov 14, 1979. Iranian assets in the US
are frozen
Various negotiations take place including
one involving Carter aide Hamilton Jordan
in Paris in Feb. 1980
April 1980 An agreement seemed to be in
place but Khomeni vetoed it.
Shah died in July 1980
Iraq invades Iran in September 1980
RR defeats Carter in November 1980
Carter continues to negate through Under
Secretary of State Warren Christopher,
and Algerian embasaries.
The talks that led to the release began
in September 1980
Nov 2 1980, Iranian parliament sets
forth formal conditions for the release.
Christopher arrives in Algiers with the
American reply.
Hostages are released on the day Carter's
term ended. It's thought the Iranians
wanted the delay the release of the hostages
to punish Carter for his perceived support
of the Shah.
As a candidate and as president elect
Reagan had no power to negotiate anything.
He had nothing to do with the release
of the Iranian hostages.


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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 3:57:23 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
The hostages North was concerned with weren't the
American embassy in Tehran hostages.

Iran Contra had nothing to do with Carter.

She does. You are conflating two different Iranian events.



No I am not, one led directly to the other... If Iran Contra didn't happen, would Iran have released to hostages 5 minutes after Reagan was inaugurated?
Or are you saying that Iran only released the hostages because Reagan won, and the Shah died?
Either way, it only proves that Carter had nothing to do with the release of the hostages, despite her claim... Unless you count losing to Reagan as a successful negotiation.


Rob, this just goes to show you dont have a clue what you are on about, as per normal. Carter agreed to unfreeze Iranian assets frozen when the hostages were first seized, in exchange for a safe release of the hostages.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 4:00:09 PM   
Winterapple


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Status: offline 		Iran Contra a scheme to trade guns for hostages.
But the the hostages involved in Iran contra
had nothing to do with the hostages
taken at the Tehran embassy during the
Carter administration.

They were hostages, not all Americans
taken by Hezbollah in what is believed
to have been an effort to prevent
retaliation for the bombing of the Marine
barracks in Beirut that killed American
and French marines.
This all happened during Reagan's first
term. Carter was well out of office.
The idea was the US would give guns
secretly to Iran who was at war with Iraq
in exchange for their help in doing what
they could to get Hezballoh to release
the hostages. Some of who died in captivity.

The Contra refers to the Nicaraguan Contras.
Part of the scheme was in addition to getting
the hostages released it would also be
a way for US intelligence to fund the Contras.

No hostages were released by this scheme.
Some languished there til the end of
Bush Sr. term.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 4:11:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

If Iran Contra didn't happen, would Iran have released to hostages 5 minutes after Reagan was inaugurated?


I'm saying, you moron, that Iran-Contra happened years AFTER Carter, during Reagan's 2nd administration.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 5:19:06 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

As a candidate and as president elect
Reagan had no power to negotiate anything.
He had nothing to do with the release
of the Iranian hostages.




Except he did and he used it. During the election Ronald Reagan's started saying as President, the United States would not be paying "ransom for people who have been kidnapped by barbarians". And from the moment he became President Elect, Reagan began calling the American Embassy Hostages "Our Prisoners of War".

And he meant it!



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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 5:24:56 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

If Iran Contra didn't happen, would Iran have released to hostages 5 minutes after Reagan was inaugurated?


I'm saying, you moron, that Iran-Contra happened years AFTER Carter, during Reagan's 2nd administration.


And she was denying Reagan was the reason for the hostage crisis ending... So while I got the Iranian Contra mixed up, she got the Carter got the hostages released wrong...And you agreed she was right.

Same goes for you Polite... the Iranians wouldn't negotiate with Carter, didn't you read the BBC link, old chap?

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 5:45:14 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Rob, the Iranian governement didn't refuse to talk
with Carter or with people from his administration
or people working as go betweens between
the two.
The talks that led to the release began
in Sept. 1980, the Parliament announced
it's terms in November, Christopher as
Carter's representative went to Algiers
with America's reply.
It was hashed out and the Algerian Accord
was signed. Of course there were other
factors in what came about.
But RR had nothing to do with it and
to say Carter nothing to do with it is
also untrue.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 6:06:31 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Reagan had nothing to do with the Algerian Accord
which ended the hostage crisis.
President Carter obviously was involved
in the Algerian Accord that ended the
hostage crisis.
These are facts that could be ascertained
from a six graders social studies book.
I guess it was the ghost of Reagan that
killed bin Laden, Obama didn't have anything
to do with it, he's just the president.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 6:16:22 PM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		The students who took the hostages never intended
to keep them for very long.
That was the Aystollahs influence.
He used the hostage crisis to shore
up his own power.
The students wanted to take the April
deal but he didn't.
In Sept Iraq invaded Iran. They had gone
almost a year with their assets in American
frozen. They were feeling the pinch.
A pinch that Carter as president supplied.
A pinch that brought them to the
table to negotiate.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 7:12:29 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

My, but how far we have come from discussing a liberal who didn't forget all the self-proclaimed values, the moment President Obama was sworn into office. I can see where that topic might make a lot of alleged liberals uncomfortable.

The Iranians waited to release the hostages until the very last, because they fucking hated Carter. It was one last, "my friend," as he headed out the door. In that sense, Reagan didn't matter. They'd have waited for Teddy Kennedy's inauguration, just as easily.


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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 7:20:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

If Iran Contra didn't happen, would Iran have released to hostages 5 minutes after Reagan was inaugurated?


I'm saying, you moron, that Iran-Contra happened years AFTER Carter, during Reagan's 2nd administration.


And she was denying Reagan was the reason for the hostage crisis ending... So while I got the Iranian Contra mixed up, she got the Carter got the hostages released wrong...And you agreed she was right.

Same goes for you Polite... the Iranians wouldn't negotiate with Carter, didn't you read the BBC link, old chap?

Keep working on it. You'll get it eventually.

In the meantime, it might serve you better to stop berating people "getting things wrong" until you figure it out yourself.

quote:

she got the Carter got the hostages released wrong...And you agreed she was right.

I certainly did not.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/26/2012 7:22:17 PM >

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 7:21:10 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

The Iranians waited to release the hostages until the very last, because they fucking hated Carter. It was one last, "my friend," as he headed out the door. In that sense, Reagan didn't matter. They'd have waited for Teddy Kennedy's inauguration, just as easily.


No more calls, please--we have a winner!

quote:

My, but how far we have come from discussing a liberal who didn't forget all the self-proclaimed values, the moment President Obama was sworn into office.

I knew the President-Elect's agenda was not going to happen the moment I watched the economic slide from 2007-2009, especially with the news after the election and the plea for bailouts by the lame duck administration.

I'm impressed he got health care through.

I'm not much impressed with anything else--but frankly, "he's not Bush," after Bush, is a selling point.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/26/2012 7:24:49 PM >

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 7:55:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		What's the economy got to do with him deciding the President has the power to launch a war against a soveriegn nation, without Congress saying so, as long as he does it by remote control? Or that due process of law for a death sentence, is a meeting in his offices?

What's the economy got to do with him realizing Gitmo was best of bad options, and all the howling libs figuring it out at the same moment?

What's the economy got to do with the idea he can overrule Congress on legislation he likes, and they don't?


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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 7:58:00 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		You see, those aren't things I realized in November 2008.

But if those are your issues, given that Romney would expand them, you're really in a 2012 pickle.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 8:16:32 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		And you believe Romney would be leaping to ever greater armloads of expanded executive power because...., Muse?

Though I'm certain you would notice, and possibly even give a shit if he did, because he has the wrong letter by his name.

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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 9:01:43 PM   
Sanity


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For Conservatives to be hypocrites re "make war not love, man" on the scale of certain leftists... over Obamas wars, and assassinations, and aggressions etc etc etc

Dont you think Conservatives would have had to have been antiwar on the scale of certain leftists, specially in the eight years or so prior to Obamas election

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, I've already posted links in this thread about how Romney would in fact not only continue but expand these operations.

In reference to your OP -- will you be wearing a Mitt 2012 T-shirt? Does that make you a hypocrite?

Or will you be writing in Ron Paul?






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RE: Carter Unloads On Obama - 6/26/2012 9:42:29 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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Status: offline 		We were attacked by al-queda.....not Iraq.


We went after al-queda because they attacked us.


We were lied into attacking Iraq.


And that cunt there(we can use that word now,yes?) Condi......helped bush and you neo-cons lie us into that war.


So the blood...........................................is kinda appropriate.


Now,lol,the liars who routinely trash Carter are making him a rock star for criticizing the president......


That`s not a poor reflection on either President Carter or President Obama......but rather on their desperate and deranged critics.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/26/2012 9:43:24 PM >

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