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RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 7:50:46 PM

LanceHughes

Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
Just now, all hosts on the MSNBC show "The Cycle", proposed that voting be "mandated", that voting be mandatory by law for all U.S. citizens.
I'm am not surprised. Mandates are the focus of the Left and socialism.
What say you?

I didnt see said show.. but,.. if voting were mandatory for all US citizens,.. wtf would the penalty be for not voting? They cant build jails fast enough as it is..

Austrailians pay a small fine. If your ballot doesn't come in, you receive - basically - a parking ticket. "Fill this out and put fine inside."
==============
Google is your friend.... from the official site FAQs:

What happens if I do not vote?
Initially the Australian Electoral Commission will write to all apparent non-voters requesting that they either provide a reason for their failure to vote or pay a $20 penalty.
If, within 21 days, the apparent non-voter fails to reply, cannot provide a valid and sufficient reason or declines to pay the penalty, then prosecution proceedings may be instigated. If the matter is dealt with in court and the person is found guilty, he or she may be fined up to $50 plus court costs.

ETA: Try being informed, not just opinionated

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 6/27/2012 7:58:48 PM >

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(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 41

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 8:05:41 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tacitus1
Yes, forcing people to do what's good for the country IS a liberal idea.

I disagree. I don't think that the concept of individual obligation to the whole fits at all into our current US incarnations of liberal and conservative. I think you would find people both completely supportive, and utterly opposed, on both sides of the spectrum, and a middle, that entirely disregarded the boundaries.

(in reply to Tacitus1)

Post #: 42

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 8:32:10 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tacitus1

No, fascism is LEFT wing, just to the right of communism. Private ownership under government control leads to things like GE, a huge corporate donor to Obama and the democrats getting all those "green" jobs contracts and a huge subsidy.

I can't get past that first sentence.

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Post #: 43

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 8:35:13 PM

erieangel

Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tacitus1

What it's title was has very little to do with what it IS. All it did was extend the 14th Amendment to voting. If the franchise is granted to one man, it's granted to all men who are otherwise equal. If a state wanted to, it could restrict voting to only people who owned a certain value of real estate and it would be legal, insofar as men, women, all races and creeds were treated equally. If a million in assessed value was the limit for the franchise, anyone passing that bar could vote.

Aaron Burr was accused of being a Democrat; his duel with Hamilton resulted. Democrat was an insult to those who witnessed the French Revolution, it meant being and advocate of mob rule and lawlessness.

In the early days of the our country, only men who owned property were permitted to vote. Jefferson had a problem with that. If a man owned a jackass, he owned property and therefore could vote. But if his jackass died, he would not be able to vote unless he acquired new property. Jefferson did not think this was fair. And it is not. The man did not gain or lose his ability to think rationally by his ownership of the jackass (or its death). In the end, Jefferson's argument won out and the stipulation of ownership of property was abandoned.

You would like to bring that back?? At $1M?

Good God we really would be a plutocracy if that ever happened!!

(in reply to Tacitus1)

Post #: 44

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 8:39:47 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Just now, all hosts on the MSNBC show "The Cycle", proposed that voting be "mandated", that voting be mandatory by law for all U.S. citizens.
I'm am not surprised. Mandates are the focus of the Left and socialism.
What say you?

LOL! I can see it now...

"Y'all ain't gonna make me vote fer yer polly-tishians. I've got my rifle! The Second Amendment was written by the founding fathers to make sure we'd never have to vote! Damn elections--that's what's wrong with Democracy. Get rid of all those elections, and this country can run like the founding fathers intended!"

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 45

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 8:42:14 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

No, fascism is LEFT wing, just to the right of communism.

Your OTHER left, Sock Puppet.

(in reply to Tacitus1)

Post #: 46

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 8:47:56 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No, fascism is LEFT wing, just to the right of communism.

Your OTHER left, Sock Puppet.

This, LMAO
"

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Post #: 47

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 9:12:00 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
Just now, all hosts on the MSNBC show "The Cycle", proposed that voting be "mandated", that voting be mandatory by law for all U.S. citizens.
I'm am not surprised. Mandates are the focus of the Left and socialism.
What say you?

I didnt see said show.. but,.. if voting were mandatory for all US citizens,.. wtf would the penalty be for not voting? They cant build jails fast enough as it is..

Austrailians pay a small fine. If your ballot doesn't come in, you receive - basically - a parking ticket. "Fill this out and put fine inside."
==============
Google is your friend.... from the official site FAQs:

What happens if I do not vote?
Initially the Australian Electoral Commission will write to all apparent non-voters requesting that they either provide a reason for their failure to vote or pay a $20 penalty.
If, within 21 days, the apparent non-voter fails to reply, cannot provide a valid and sufficient reason or declines to pay the penalty, then prosecution proceedings may be instigated. If the matter is dealt with in court and the person is found guilty, he or she may be fined up to $50 plus court costs.

ETA: Try being informed, not just opinionated

Yes it's true. Voting is compulsory here, and there's a small fine if one fails to vote without a valid reason.

I wish I could say that compulsory voting produces better government, but I'm sorry I am unable to report that.

quote:

No, fascism is LEFT wing, just to the right of communism.

If I hadn't seen this statement with my own eyes I would have had difficulty believing that some people are *that* stupid and ill-informed. However it comes as no surprise that the person who said this is a rabid Right winger politically.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/27/2012 9:14:57 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 9:17:52 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No, fascism is LEFT wing, just to the right of communism.

Your OTHER left, Sock Puppet.

Another incarnation of liz.....

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Post #: 49

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 9:29:12 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

I'll play along.

When I said right to vote I more or
less meant an elgible registered voter
can on election day choose to vote or
not ie go down to the polling place
and physically cast their vote or they
can choose to not go to the polling
place and vote.
Likewise American citizens who are eligible
to vote can register to vote if they choose
to or not if they choose to.
Everything isn't in the Constitution.
I'm not going to debate privilege versus
right but people who have actually been
denied the vote historically fought for
their right to vote not for the privilege
of voting. The privilege of voting had
already been claimed by their deniers.

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(in reply to Tacitus1)

Post #: 50

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 9:38:53 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

The very idea of a "mandate", technically speaking, flies in the face of the idea of liberty.

Liberty opposes constraints. mandates are constraints. Every time we pass a law, somebody gives up a little more liberty (either by obeying a law they don't wish to or by running the risk of being jailed/fined/horsewhipped for not obeying it).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 6/27/2012 10:33:02 PM >

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Post #: 51

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 9:49:30 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

Who called Aaron Burr a Democrat? Who was using the word Democrat in 1804?
Not Alexander Hamilton. Not to mean
any political party or faction.

Burr was what was then called a
Republican. Hamilton was called a
Federalist.

The exact words that finally brought
about the duel or unknown.
Hamilton had called Burr a dangerous
man and compared him to Catiline.
As a classicist I'm sure you know about
him. Then at a dinner party Hamilton
said he could express a still more despicable
opinion of Burr. This became public after
it was printed in a newspaper.

An exchange of letters resulted in
the duel. It's been speculated that
Hamilton was suicidal. His son Philip
had died in a duel in 1801. Hamilton
used his son's gun in the duel.
It has also been speculated that the
slur Hamilton said or implied that
set Burr off was the accusation that
Burr had an incestuous relationship
with his daughter Theodosia.
There had been some degree of acrimony
between the two men since Burr
defeated Hamilton's father in law
for the NY Senate seat.
But the dual didn't come down to
politics or the use of the word Democrat
big d or small.
There are good biographies of both men.
Ron Chernow wrote a much praised one
about Hamilton.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
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(in reply to Tacitus1)

Post #: 52

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 9:56:07 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

Facism is to the right, communism is to the left.

Both have produced totalitarian states
but they are not the same or closely
related and spring from different sources
and philosophies.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to Tacitus1)

Post #: 53

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 11:16:41 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

Facism is to the right, communism is to the left.

Both come from the totalitarian bottom, if you view the political spectrum as a circle, instead of a line.

(in reply to Winterapple)

Post #: 54

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/27/2012 11:58:02 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
The very idea of a "mandate", technically speaking, flies in the face of the idea of liberty.

Liberty opposes constraints. mandates are constraints. Every time we pass a law, somebody gives up a little more liberty (either by obeying a law they don't wish to or by running the risk of being jailed/fined/horsewhipped for not obeying it).

Liberty is the concept of freedom with wisdom. What you are thinking of is anarchy, which is opposed to any kind of constraint. In order for liberty to surive in a national enviroment like ours, it needs structure and law; a set of well established and clearly understood definations. HOWEVER, the wisdom factors in to place by expressing those structures and laws should be able to change as time changes. What once worked well, becomes constraining or to loose to serve the the people of the nation as it once did. To that end, the Founding Fathers reasoned that the US Constitution itself was a living document, NOT, one casted into stone. Which is why there are (as of 2012) 27 Amendments and not the original ten.

Does every law created constraint someone's freedoms? Not so much a condition of freedom as it is of behavior. Most laws seek to curb a behavior entirely or limit it. For example, most states have a drinking age that requires a purchaser to be a certain level to obtain beer. Another law seeks to prohibit drilling without proper equipment, safety factors and various other permits approved and 'in hand'. Its important that if a law is being removed, will the behavior it was seeking to limit or ban come back and be a dentrament onto society?

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 55

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/28/2012 6:37:11 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

Facism is to the right, communism is to the left.

Both come from the totalitarian bottom, if you view the political spectrum as a circle, instead of a line.

And if you view it as paisley swirls instead of a circle, your comment makes sense.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 56

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/28/2012 6:42:02 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

Facism is to the right, communism is to the left.

Both come from the totalitarian bottom, if you view the political spectrum as a circle, instead of a line.

And if you view it as paisley swirls instead of a circle, your comment makes sense.

I always preferred tie-dye to paisley, but let's draw you a picture, Muse...

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 57

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/28/2012 6:57:31 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

You're so cute. Be sure to hang your drawing on the refrigerator.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 58

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/28/2012 6:57:35 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Thats gotta be an old drawing.

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Post #: 59

RE: Should voting be MANDATED? - 6/28/2012 7:05:32 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You're so cute. Be sure to hang your drawing on the refrigerator.

That's where I keep my speeding tickets.

It's funny though, how you look down, at things that go over your head.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 60

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