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Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 7:17:05 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
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Status: offline 		Mandate is seen as a tax. Government doesn't have power to terminate Medicaid funding to states.

Source: SCOTUS blog

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 6/28/2012 7:47:21 AM >

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 7:38:03 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Finally, reality.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 7:44:26 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I am really shocked.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 7:55:33 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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This has been semantics from the start. If the bill had said "tax" instead of "mandate," there'd be no legal challenge.

It was a fishing expedition, and Roberts stepped in to stop the political spin on this one--he has years ahead, and doesn't want to poison his tenure.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 8:01:55 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
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Status: offline 		The important thing is that it is not considered legal as part of the Commerce Clause. Had the SC not made that distinction they would have been basically giving a green light too Congress to mandate anything it damned well pleased.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 8:22:58 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The important thing is that it is not considered legal as part of the Commerce Clause. Had the SC not made that distinction they would have been basically giving a green light too Congress to mandate anything it damned well pleased.

By this precedent they can mandate pretty much anything simply by levying a tax as a penalty for noncompliance.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 8:33:50 AM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 8:36:49 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
The important thing is that it is not considered legal as part of the Commerce Clause. Had the SC not made that distinction they would have been basically giving a green light too Congress to mandate anything it damned well pleased.


The IRS and it's troglodytes just creamed their collective shorts. Just you wait. Somehow, it just became Constitutional for an American Citizen to be taxed for NOT doing something.

They can now tax each and every one of us for not spending 95% of our income. We didn't do our fair share of economic activity. The tax levied will be assessed so that whatever percent you are under 95% goes to the IRS (you spend 90% of your income, you get to send 5% more to the IRS). In addition, whatever % over 100%, you'll get credited so that your actual spend will only be 95% (you spend 110% of your income, you'll get 15% back as a tax credit).

This is going to be Ugly (and, yes, with a capital 'U').

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  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 8:57:39 AM   
Musicmystery


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Don't forgot that loose change on your dresser!

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 9:03:10 AM   
Yachtie


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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 9:06:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Ten years from now, you'll slaughter any politician who dares touch your health care.

I grow broccoli. Want some?

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 9:07:42 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 9:18:17 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, please, get your news coverage and be told how to think. Dont bother reading the 193 page DOCUMENT. In fact, how many of you can honestly state you have read the Affordable Care Act of 2010? I'll bet most of you havent. You've simply been spoon fed what to think and behave.

quote:


The IRS and it's troglodytes just creamed their collective shorts. Just you wait. Somehow, it just became Constitutional for an American Citizen to be taxed for NOT doing something.


Actually you can be taxed for doing nothing previous to this ruling, DS. Its called 'negligence'. Its when you had the option to do something and failed to do so. In fact, one might argue manslaughter or murder in the 3rd degree (in which you kill someone accidently but the jury doesnt believe you) as a tax, as your sent to prison for a pile of years.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 10:37:42 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
The important thing is that it is not considered legal as part of the Commerce Clause. Had the SC not made that distinction they would have been basically giving a green light too Congress to mandate anything it damned well pleased.


The IRS and it's troglodytes just creamed their collective shorts. Just you wait. Somehow, it just became Constitutional for an American Citizen to be taxed for NOT doing something.

They can now tax each and every one of us for not spending 95% of our income. We didn't do our fair share of economic activity. The tax levied will be assessed so that whatever percent you are under 95% goes to the IRS (you spend 90% of your income, you get to send 5% more to the IRS). In addition, whatever % over 100%, you'll get credited so that your actual spend will only be 95% (you spend 110% of your income, you'll get 15% back as a tax credit).

This is going to be Ugly (and, yes, with a capital 'U').



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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 11:42:29 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

By this precedent they can mandate pretty much anything simply by levying a tax as a penalty for noncompliance.


You can argue that just about anything affects commerce and that has been the bullshit justification for citing the Commerce Clause in a lot crap Congress has done so I am glad that the Supreme Court has made that distinction. Taxes are another matter. They must be to pay debts, provide for the common defense and the general welfare. "General welfare" is vague enough to allow a lot of bullshit but I think health care falls under that. I don't think "anything" can fall under that.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 12:25:01 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		By Congress calling it a penalty and not a tax SCOTUS avoided the anti-Tax Injunction Act and ruled. Yet SCOTUS stated that the penalty is in effect a tax thus preserving it.

All taxes must originate in the House. Obamacare originated in the Senate.

Oh, that's right. It's a penalty and not a tax.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Marc2b)
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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 12:29:13 PM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		Lets see how many whine when states decide to opt out of the ACA, like the unions, Walmart & McDonald's.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 12:33:07 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Good luck with that.

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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 12:35:48 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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Status: offline 		Bear in mind that this is a man who's been predicting the end of the world since a big eared Kenyan was elected.
His head'll probably explode if Bush III gets re-elected...


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RE: Affordable Care Act is upheld - 6/28/2012 12:44:00 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Lets see how many whine when states decide to opt out of the ACA, like the unions, Walmart & McDonald's.

States can only opt out of the Medicaid expansion and that only by turning down a big bucket of federal money. How likely is that?

(in reply to subrob1967)
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