RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


subrob1967 -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/29/2012 6:30:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, he has Issa (in an act reminiscent of Tailgunner Joe) yesterday on the house floor inserting a document that is illegal to make public into the record (which will be redacted for publication).

So, sorta like waving the paper and saying I have a list of 200 communists in the state department, simply impugnations.  I watched the whole performance yesterday. 



I found this this morning.
The source,fortune, is not exactly a bastion of liberal thought.


http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?iid=obnetwork



The main source of the article is also one of the guys the whistle blowers complained about. Specifically that HE gave the order to let the guns go on more than one occasion.

quote:


Here's what has happened to the managers of the operation:

-- Acting ATF Chief Ken Melson, who oversaw the operation, is now an adviser in the Office of Legal Affairs. He remains in ATF's Washington, D.C., headquarters.

-- Acting Deputy Director Billy Hoover, who knew his agency was walking guns and demanded an "exit strategy" just five months into the program, is now the special agent in charge of the D.C. office. He, too, did not have to relocate.

-- Deputy Director for Field Operations William McMahon received detailed briefings about the illegal operation and later admitted he shares "responsibility for mistakes that were made.” Yet, he also stays in D.C., ironically as the No. 2 man at the ATF's Office of Internal Affairs.

-- Special Agent in Charge of Phoenix Bill Newell, the man most responsible for directly overseeing Fast and Furious, was promoted to the Office of Management in Washington.

-- Phoenix Deputy Chief George Gillette was also promoted to Washington as ATF's liaison to the U.S. Marshal's Service.

-- Group Supervisor David Voth managed Fast and Furious on a day-to-day basis and repeatedly stopped field agents from interdicting weapons headed to the border, according to congressional testimony. ATF boosted Voth to chief of the ATF Tobacco Division, where he now supervises more employees in Washington than he ever did in Phoenix.

An ATF spokesman in Washington says the key players did not receive promotions, but transfers.

Special Agent Jay Dobyns, who is suing the agency for breach of contract, is skeptical.

"These guys are protected. They're insulated. They're all part of a club," Dobyns said, alleging that the ATF has a history of retaliating against its own who speak up.

"They risk everything, knowing that everything they worked for, their careers, their reputations, their finances, are all going to be ruined."

Case in point, he said, is field agent John Dodson. Dodson uprooted his family from Virginia in 2010 to join a new elite anti-gun trafficking group in Phoenix, known as Group 7. Dodson quickly witnessed what was wrong and loudly voiced his objections to Voth and Newell.

Management reassigned Dodson to weekend duty and the wire room, a relatively boring job monitoring telephone traffic and subordinate to junior agents. Soon thereafter, Dodson was temporarily assigned to another group for an additional menial assignment, until ultimately sent to an FBI Task Force, completely away from the ATF, even turning off his ATF building access pass.

Dodson continued to challenge Voth, saying the operation was killing people in Mexico and suggested it was only a matter of time before a "border agent or sheriff's deputy" would be killed by one of the guns they let go.

"If you're going to make an omelet, you've got to scramble some eggs," Voth replied, according to a congressional report.

Voth moved Dodson out of Group 7 shortly before Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was shot by weapons traced to Fast and Furious. Newell, Gillette and Voth began to cover up their tracks. According to an e-mail 24 hours after Terry was shot, Voth wrote:

"We are charging Avila (Jaime Avila bought the alleged murder weapons) with a stand-alone June 2010 firearms purchase. This way we do not divulge our current case (Fast and Furious) or the Border Patrol shooting case."

"Great job," Newell replied.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/30/fast-and-furious-whistleblowers-struggle-six-months-after-testifying-against/






kalikshama -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/29/2012 6:57:13 PM)

A summary for those who don't click:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?iid=obnetwork

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.




Musicmystery -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/29/2012 9:35:36 PM)

quote:

No one died in Watergate


Too busy bombing Cambodia.





Sanity -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 12:24:56 AM)


If Bush is to blame for Obama bombing Pakistan and locking children up in Gitmo, then the hallowed godly JFK (first coming of Obama) is surely to blame for Nixon bombing Cambodia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No one died in Watergate


Too busy bombing Cambodia.







joether -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 2:26:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
A summary for those who don't click:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?iid=obnetwork

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.


When the facts and evidence are against the wishs of conservatives, they simply ignore it and believe their fantasy. Its the same stupid crap as they do for the Theory of Climate Change, The Theory of Evolution, the manner and reasons for the economy to go south in 2007, and for the birthplace of President Obama. How often do we have to correct the conservative mindset on this forum with the facts and evidence, when they spew out total nonsense? That they failed to take five minutes of their time, and do a simple internet search to make sure they got their arguement right. On another thread, I simply destroyed a conservative's cut/paste job and showed the arguements within were blatantly false and wrong. To which the person didnt have the decency to admit they never vetted the information for accuracy and facts.





mnottertail -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 7:38:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If Bush is to blame for Obama bombing Pakistan and locking children up in Gitmo, then the hallowed godly JFK (first coming of Obama) is surely to blame for Nixon bombing Cambodia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No one died in Watergate


Too busy bombing Cambodia.






It would end up being Ike if we are going to root cause.




subrob1967 -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 8:10:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
A summary for those who don't click:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?iid=obnetwork

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.


When the facts and evidence are against the wishs of conservatives, they simply ignore it and believe their fantasy. Its the same stupid crap as they do for the Theory of Climate Change, The Theory of Evolution, the manner and reasons for the economy to go south in 2007, and for the birthplace of President Obama. How often do we have to correct the conservative mindset on this forum with the facts and evidence, when they spew out total nonsense? That they failed to take five minutes of their time, and do a simple internet search to make sure they got their arguement right. On another thread, I simply destroyed a conservative's cut/paste job and showed the arguements within were blatantly false and wrong. To which the person didnt have the decency to admit they never vetted the information for accuracy and facts.




Is that like the FACT that you are ignoring the congressional testimony of two ATF agents who said under oath that the guy who is the source of the article is the guy who let the guns walk?

Those facts, and that evidence being ignored joe?

Here's your evidence joe, is a transcript of the testimony good enough for you joe?
Transcript of Agent Olindo Casa

quote:

“After reporting to Phoenix Group 7 office in December 2009, I was briefed by group members on the investigation “Fast and Furious.” Shortly after, I became aware of what I believed to be unusual and questionable investigative techniques. For instance, I became aware of certain straw purchasers were purchasing numerous firearms from firearm dealers. What I found concerning and alarming was – more times than not – no law enforcement activity was planned to stop these suspected straw purchasers from purchasing firearms. The only law enforcement activity that was occasionally taken was to conduct a surveillance of the transaction and then nothing more.

“As the investigation progressed over the next couple of months, additional suspected straw purchasers were identified – again with no obvious attempts to interdict the weapons or interview the suspects. Around the same time, Phoenix Group 7′s office was said to receive numerous firearm traces, detailing firearms recoveries in the country of Mexico. Many of those traces disclose aforementioned straw purchasers responsible for purchasing those recovered firearms.

“At this time, several special agents in the group, including myself, became increasingly concerned and alarmed at Case Agent Hope McAllister and Group Supervisor Dave Voth’s refusal to stop or address the suspected straw purchasers from purchasing additional firearms.

“Special Agent John Dodson and I continually raised our concerns directly with the case agent, Cold Case Agent Tonya English, and Group Supervisor Voth, to no avail.

“In response to our increasingly voiced concerns, the group supervisor issued the infamous “schism” email to the group. In essence, the email was a direct threat to the agents who were not in agreement on how Case Agent McAllister, Cold Case Agent English, or how Group Supervisor Voth managed the investigation. Based on my 18 years of experience with the ATF, I did not think the email was an empty threat. I took it very seriously.


That was for those of you not blinded by partisan bullshit.

Testimony of Agent John Dodson

Now who are we to believe, some reporter, who interviewed the guy who was in charge of letting the guns walk, or the testimony under oath of two ATF agents who blew the whistle on the operation?

I bet I can predict who you believe joe.[:-]




mnottertail -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 8:25:50 AM)

http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/2012/06/27/ranking-member-elijah-cummings-fires-off-letter-to-speaker-boehner-in-an-affort-to-abort-house-attorney-general-eric-holder-contempt-vote/

(This guy knows as much as Issa (and actually a hell of a lot more), and it is on Greta Van Susterns site, so cant say it is liberal spin).   It seems like alot of people may be misinformed, or outright lying on all sides.

Political Theatre.

What are Issa and the teabaggers trying to hide? Why are these hearings not public and why are they not calling everyone with knowledge to the chambers to testify? 




subrob1967 -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 10:20:03 AM)

Who is hiding what Ron?

Well apparently Boehner and 17 Democrats thought Cummings was wrong because AG Holder was held in contempt. Cummings trying to cover for Holder might just turn out to be a mistake on his part.

Theater? If so, I'm looking forward to the sequel[;)]




Musicmystery -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 10:41:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If Bush is to blame for Obama bombing Pakistan and locking children up in Gitmo, then the hallowed godly JFK (first coming of Obama) is surely to blame for Nixon bombing Cambodia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

No one died in Watergate


Too busy bombing Cambodia.





Now see, there's where I agree with you. JFK is hallowed because of his tragic end; he was not a good President.




Owner59 -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (6/30/2012 11:55:08 AM)

[image]http://www.winningprogressive.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/contempt.jpg[/image]




Sanity -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 5:16:20 AM)


What a surprise. Holder plays the victim card...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/holder-gop-made-proxy-attack-obama-013110048.html

The comments under the article are entertaining




mnottertail -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 5:25:27 AM)

Like anybody gives a fuck, the inept goons and thugs (and in Issa's case, convict) have been hoisted on their own petard.  Its all over but the crying game for the rushfelchers, teabaggers, and neo-cons




kalikshama -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 5:50:22 AM)

quote:

Testimony of Agent John Dodson


Dodson and Casa, the flipflop and godzilla "professionals," sent lots of complaining emails to their supervisor Voth, but NONE regarding gun walking.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

Dodson, 41, arrived one day before Voth from a two-man outpost of ATF's Roanoke field office, where he'd worked since 2002. He had joined the ATF from the narcotics section of the Loudoun County sheriff's office in Virginia, where his blunt, even obnoxious manner did not earn him friends. He's "an asshole sometimes—there is no other way to put it," says his former partner, Ken Dondero, who served as best man at Dodson's wedding. "He's almost too honest. He believes that if he has a thought in his head, it's there to broadcast to everyone."
Voth, MacAllister, and a third agent, Tonya English, were quintessential by-the-book types. By contrast, Dodson and two other new arrivals, Olindo "Lee" Casa and Lawrence Alt, seemed to chafe at ATF rules and procedures. (An attorney for Casa says that "in light of the current congressional investigation, as well as investigations by the Department of Justice Inspector General and the Office of Special Counsel" it would be premature to comment. A lawyer for Alt says Alt could not be interviewed because he is in mediation to settle a suit he filed in which he charges that he was retaliated against for being a whistleblower.)

Dodson's faction grew antagonistic to Voth. They regularly fired off snide e-mails and seemed to delight in mocking Voth and his methodical nature. They were scornful of protocol, according to ATF agents. Dodson would show up to work in flip-flops. He came unprepared for operations—without safety equipment or back-up plans—and was pulled off at least one surveillance for his own safety, say two colleagues. He earned the nickname "Renegade," and soon Voth's group effectively divided into two clashing factions: the Sunshine Bears and the Renegades.

...The atmosphere inside Voth's group had become toxic. The subjects of dispute were often trivial. For example, when Voth asked Casa to turn off his computer's Godzilla sound effect, which roared each time he got an e-mail, Casa replied, "I have done some limited research and have found no ATF order or internal division memo addressing this issue."

...Phoenix-based ATF agents became so frustrated by prosecutors' intransigence that, in a highly unusual move, they began bringing big cases to the state attorney general's office instead. Terry Goddard, Arizona's Attorney General from 2003 to 2011, says of federal prosecutors, "They demanded that every i be dotted, every t be crossed, and after a while, it got to be nonsensical."

For prosecutors, straw-purchasing cases were hard to prove and unrewarding to prosecute, with minimal penalties attached. In December 2010, five U.S. Attorneys along the Southwest border, including Burke in Arizona, wrote to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, asking that penalties for straw purchasing be increased. The commission did increase the recommended jail time by a few months. But because the straw purchasers, by definition, have no criminal record and there is no firearms-trafficking statute that would allow prosecutors to charge them with conspiracy as a group, the penalties remain low.

Prosecutors repeatedly rebuffed Voth's requests. After examining one suspect's garbage, agents learned he was on food stamps yet had plunked down more than $300,000 for 476 firearms in six months. Voth asked if the ATF could arrest him for fraudulently accepting public assistance when he was spending such huge sums. Prosecutor Hurley said no. In another instance, a young jobless suspect paid more than $10,000 for a 50-caliber tripod-mounted sniper rifle. According to Voth, Hurley told the agents they lacked proof that he hadn't bought the gun for himself.

Voth grew deeply frustrated. In August 2010, after the ATF in Texas confiscated 80 guns—63 of them purchased in Arizona by the Fast and Furious suspects— Voth got an e-mail from a colleague there: "Are you all planning to stop some of these guys any time soon? That's a lot of guns…Are you just letting these guns walk?"
Voth responded with barely suppressed rage: "Have I offended you in some way? Because I am very offended by your e-mail. Define walk? Without Probable Cause and concurrence from the USAO [U.S. Attorney's Office] it is highway robbery if we take someone's property." He then recounted the situation with the unemployed suspect who had bought the sniper rifle. "We conducted a field interview and after calling the AUSA [assistant U.S. Attorney] he said we did not have sufficient PC [probable cause] to take the firearm so our suspect drove home with said firearm in his car…any ideas on how we could not let that firearm 'walk'"?

Voth believed the wiretap could help bring the case to a swift and successful close. On March 5, 2010, ten days before their first wiretap was set to begin, Voth was in Washington, D.C., to brief ATF brass and Justice Department officials on Fast and Furious. The response was overwhelmingly positive. A senior ATF attorney wrote Voth, "This is exactly the types of cases ATF should be doing with a wire, it is fantastic."
The schism inside Phoenix Group VII

Voth returned to Phoenix fully expecting his team to unite for the work that lay ahead. But instead he found a minor mutiny—over the schedule for the wire, which needed to be monitored around the clock. Dodson didn't want to work weekends. Casa felt his seniority should exclude him from the effort.




subrob1967 -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 7:43:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Testimony of Agent John Dodson


Dodson and Casa, the flipflop and godzilla "professionals," sent lots of complaining emails to their supervisor Voth, but NONE regarding gun walking.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

Dodson, 41, arrived one day before Voth from a two-man outpost of ATF's Roanoke field office, where he'd worked since 2002. He had joined the ATF from the narcotics section of the Loudoun County sheriff's office in Virginia, where his blunt, even obnoxious manner did not earn him friends. He's "an asshole sometimes—there is no other way to put it," says his former partner, Ken Dondero, who served as best man at Dodson's wedding. "He's almost too honest. He believes that if he has a thought in his head, it's there to broadcast to everyone."
Voth, MacAllister, and a third agent, Tonya English, were quintessential by-the-book types. By contrast, Dodson and two other new arrivals, Olindo "Lee" Casa and Lawrence Alt, seemed to chafe at ATF rules and procedures. (An attorney for Casa says that "in light of the current congressional investigation, as well as investigations by the Department of Justice Inspector General and the Office of Special Counsel" it would be premature to comment. A lawyer for Alt says Alt could not be interviewed because he is in mediation to settle a suit he filed in which he charges that he was retaliated against for being a whistleblower.)

Dodson's faction grew antagonistic to Voth. They regularly fired off snide e-mails and seemed to delight in mocking Voth and his methodical nature. They were scornful of protocol, according to ATF agents. Dodson would show up to work in flip-flops. He came unprepared for operations—without safety equipment or back-up plans—and was pulled off at least one surveillance for his own safety, say two colleagues. He earned the nickname "Renegade," and soon Voth's group effectively divided into two clashing factions: the Sunshine Bears and the Renegades.

...The atmosphere inside Voth's group had become toxic. The subjects of dispute were often trivial. For example, when Voth asked Casa to turn off his computer's Godzilla sound effect, which roared each time he got an e-mail, Casa replied, "I have done some limited research and have found no ATF order or internal division memo addressing this issue."

...Phoenix-based ATF agents became so frustrated by prosecutors' intransigence that, in a highly unusual move, they began bringing big cases to the state attorney general's office instead. Terry Goddard, Arizona's Attorney General from 2003 to 2011, says of federal prosecutors, "They demanded that every i be dotted, every t be crossed, and after a while, it got to be nonsensical."

For prosecutors, straw-purchasing cases were hard to prove and unrewarding to prosecute, with minimal penalties attached. In December 2010, five U.S. Attorneys along the Southwest border, including Burke in Arizona, wrote to the U.S. Sentencing Commission, asking that penalties for straw purchasing be increased. The commission did increase the recommended jail time by a few months. But because the straw purchasers, by definition, have no criminal record and there is no firearms-trafficking statute that would allow prosecutors to charge them with conspiracy as a group, the penalties remain low.

Prosecutors repeatedly rebuffed Voth's requests. After examining one suspect's garbage, agents learned he was on food stamps yet had plunked down more than $300,000 for 476 firearms in six months. Voth asked if the ATF could arrest him for fraudulently accepting public assistance when he was spending such huge sums. Prosecutor Hurley said no. In another instance, a young jobless suspect paid more than $10,000 for a 50-caliber tripod-mounted sniper rifle. According to Voth, Hurley told the agents they lacked proof that he hadn't bought the gun for himself.

Voth grew deeply frustrated. In August 2010, after the ATF in Texas confiscated 80 guns—63 of them purchased in Arizona by the Fast and Furious suspects— Voth got an e-mail from a colleague there: "Are you all planning to stop some of these guys any time soon? That's a lot of guns…Are you just letting these guns walk?"
Voth responded with barely suppressed rage: "Have I offended you in some way? Because I am very offended by your e-mail. Define walk? Without Probable Cause and concurrence from the USAO [U.S. Attorney's Office] it is highway robbery if we take someone's property." He then recounted the situation with the unemployed suspect who had bought the sniper rifle. "We conducted a field interview and after calling the AUSA [assistant U.S. Attorney] he said we did not have sufficient PC [probable cause] to take the firearm so our suspect drove home with said firearm in his car…any ideas on how we could not let that firearm 'walk'"?

Voth believed the wiretap could help bring the case to a swift and successful close. On March 5, 2010, ten days before their first wiretap was set to begin, Voth was in Washington, D.C., to brief ATF brass and Justice Department officials on Fast and Furious. The response was overwhelmingly positive. A senior ATF attorney wrote Voth, "This is exactly the types of cases ATF should be doing with a wire, it is fantastic."
The schism inside Phoenix Group VII

Voth returned to Phoenix fully expecting his team to unite for the work that lay ahead. But instead he found a minor mutiny—over the schedule for the wire, which needed to be monitored around the clock. Dodson didn't want to work weekends. Casa felt his seniority should exclude him from the effort.



Again, the source for the fortune article is the man the whistle blowers are complaining about... Why is this so hard to understand? Of course the source is going to say anything, including attacking the whistle blowers that made him look good...

Even CBS says the Fortune story is full of inaccuracies. Stop being a partisan hack and search for the truth.
Katherine Eban lies about Operation Fast & Furious.
[link=http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/06/27/fortune_magazine_tries_to_tell_the_truth_about_fast_and_furious_fails_miserably[/link]






mnottertail -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 7:45:19 AM)

And the Cummings expose to congressman Issa on his lies and inaccuracies.




kalikshama -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 7:52:25 AM)

quote:

Again, the source for the fortune article is the man the whistle blowers are complaining about... Why is this so hard to understand? Of course the source is going to say anything, including attacking the whistle blowers that made him look good...


She reviewed more than 2,000 documents over 6 months and far from being the main source, Voth was very reluctant to speak to her.

Tom Ashbrook didn't cut Katherine Eban any slack during this interview - http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/07/02/fast-and-furious-fortune




kalikshama -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 7:59:16 AM)

Re Whenever the first couple of paragraphs of a so-called "investigative report" include multiple discredited smears of weak gun laws promulgated by the NRA, you can be pretty confident that whatever follows is likely false or misleading.

perhaps someone more familiar with gun laws can explain to me what is inaccurate about this:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

FORTUNE -- In the annals of impossible assignments, Dave Voth's ranked high. In 2009 the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives promoted Voth to lead Phoenix Group VII, one of seven new ATF groups along the Southwest border tasked with stopping guns from being trafficked into Mexico's vicious drug war.

Some call it the "parade of ants"; others the "river of iron." The Mexican government has estimated that 2,000 weapons are smuggled daily from the U.S. into Mexico. The ATF is hobbled in its effort to stop this flow. No federal statute outlaws firearms trafficking, so agents must build cases using a patchwork of often toothless laws. For six years, due to Beltway politics, the bureau has gone without permanent leadership, neutered in its fight for funding and authority. The National Rifle Association has so successfully opposed a comprehensive electronic database of gun sales that the ATF's congressional appropriation explicitly prohibits establishing one.





mnottertail -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 8:04:22 AM)

The National Rifle Association has so successfully opposed a comprehensive electronic database of gun sales that the ATF's congressional appropriation explicitly prohibits establishing one.

And I have talked about that out here.  They have the database and are forbidden by law to relate it. The work of the NRA lobby.




subrob1967 -> RE: 255 to 67 vs. Holder (7/3/2012 8:04:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Again, the source for the fortune article is the man the whistle blowers are complaining about... Why is this so hard to understand? Of course the source is going to say anything, including attacking the whistle blowers that made him look good...


She reviewed more than 2,000 documents over 6 months and far from being the main source, Voth was very reluctant to speak to her.

Tom Ashbrook didn't cut Katherine Eban any slack during this interview - http://onpoint.wbur.org/2012/07/02/fast-and-furious-fortune


Just because she claims she's telling the truth, evidence points out that she's not... The bottom line is, progressives want to believe her, because she's defending your side, and you don't care that her story is full of inconsistencies and lies.

Has Fortune shown anyone these so called documents? Have YOU seen them? Are we just supposed to take Eban's word that they exist, but she can't produce them?

She's a fucking liar... And you're buying what she's peddling.




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.0625