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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 5:24:55 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


776.041b says no such thing. This PRESUMPTION you speak of does not exist. It is an ASSUMPTION of yours.



Actually it was a lawyer that pointed it out, though I got it a little wrong. 776.041b makes the presumption that it's use of force that provokes the use of force. "indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force".

Indicating you wish to terminate the use of force makes the presumption that you used force to begin with.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/12/2012 5:29:13 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 341
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 5:40:44 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


776.041b says no such thing. This PRESUMPTION you speak of does not exist. It is an ASSUMPTION of yours.



Actually it was a lawyer that pointed it out, though I got it a little wrong. 776.041b makes the presumption that it's use of force that provokes the use of force. "indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force".

Indicating you wish to terminate the use of force makes the presumption that you used force to begin with.



Well no shit Sherlock. To terminate something means it had to exist in order to terminate it.

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(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 342
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 5:41:37 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


776.041b says no such thing. This PRESUMPTION you speak of does not exist. It is an ASSUMPTION of yours.



Actually it was a lawyer that pointed it out, though I got it a little wrong. 776.041b makes the presumption that it's use of force that provokes the use of force. "indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force".

Indicating you wish to terminate the use of force makes the presumption that you used force to begin with.



Well no shit Sherlock. To terminate something means it had to exist in order to terminate it.


I was responding to fargle's claim the presumption doesn't exist.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 343
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 6:06:37 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


776.041b says no such thing. This PRESUMPTION you speak of does not exist. It is an ASSUMPTION of yours.



Actually it was a lawyer that pointed it out, though I got it a little wrong. 776.041b makes the presumption that it's use of force that provokes the use of force. "indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force".

Indicating you wish to terminate the use of force makes the presumption that you used force to begin with.



Well no shit Sherlock. To terminate something means it had to exist in order to terminate it.


I was responding to fargle's claim the presumption doesn't exist.


I was responding to your "indicating you wish to terminate the use of force makes the presumption that you used force to begin with." comment. D'oh!

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 344
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 6:44:14 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And I was demonstrating that your response to my response served no useful purpose.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 345
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 8:56:41 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Going through the new evidence. Most significant so far is that with the dozen or so Federal agents sent to investigate, they came up with zero evidence of racial bias from George.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 346
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 8:57:31 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		It's nice they talk to you about this so readily.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 347
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 9:03:05 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And there's the photos and lab work done on the clothing, but no results that we didn't know for some time now; results consistent with a contact shot. So far all the available ballistics support George's story.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 348
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 9:18:26 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		George is going to use the money for a sex change?  Or...WTF is the comparison?

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(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 349
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 9:26:34 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Just the going to trial for murdering a child, since you inquired about mothers and fathers being on the jury. The comparison seemed obvious to me. *shrug*

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 350
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 9:30:16 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's nice they talk to you about this so readily.


Don't need to talk to them; I read their reports.

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Profile   Post #: 351
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 9:40:02 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's nice they talk to you about this so readily.


Don't need to talk to them; I read their reports.

Wait...I thought I was on your block list? Damn.

It's just possible they don't report everything about an upcoming trial to the public. Ya think?

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 352
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 9:50:30 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Took everyone off block last week on a whim. Thanks for reminding me why that was a bad idea.

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Profile   Post #: 353
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 10:00:08 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No worries!

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 354
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 10:04:19 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		FBI Interviews: No evidence Zimmerman a racist

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 355
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 11:32:17 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


April 17 -

quote:

Defendant: Do you know what? I think my passport is in that bag.

Shelly Zimmerman: I have one for you in safety deposit box...

Defendant: Ok, you hold on to that.


April 20 - Bond Hearing. Shellie testilies that they're indigent. Zimmerman turns in expired passport. Zimmerman's lies to O'Mara cause O'Mara to tell the court, and I quote, "this is my client's current passport and only passport that he has."

June 1, Bond Revoked.

July 7 Bond granted


Which, of course, is irrelevant to the fact that Zimmerman KNEW he had an extra passport BEFORE he lied to his attorney, and caused his attorney to lie to the court, which is clearly indicated by the timeline I had posted.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 356
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 11:33:47 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


776.041b says no such thing. This PRESUMPTION you speak of does not exist. It is an ASSUMPTION of yours.



Actually it was a lawyer that pointed it out, though I got it a little wrong. 776.041b makes the presumption that it's use of force that provokes the use of force. "indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force".

Indicating you wish to terminate the use of force makes the presumption that you used force to begin with.


And as we've seen in Diallo, the threatening motion as if towards a weapon counts as Zimmerman's use of force.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 357
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 11:35:45 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sepultura

Insufficient evidence for the charge. Typical. Overcharge to scare from trial. Call them out? If state prosecution, they do lose from time to time.


Given there's a mandatory sentence for killing a juvenile, and there's no benefit to plea-bargins, exactly how does this 'overcharge to scare from trail' work?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sepultura)
Profile   Post #: 358
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 11:36:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Going through the new evidence. Most significant so far is that with the dozen or so Federal agents sent to investigate, they came up with zero evidence of racial bias from George.


Since he's not charged with a racial crime, I'm unsure about the exculpatory value of that.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 359
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/12/2012 11:51:15 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

And as we've seen in Diallo, the threatening motion as if towards a weapon counts as Zimmerman's use of force.



Diallo isn't even in the same State so really you're just making wild speculation as to how Florida would consider it. The lawyers I've asked though are certain looking for your cellphone to call police wouldn't count as 'use of force' taking away the right to self defense.

However, if Trayvon was on trial, his defense team could argue that the reaching for the phone put Trayvon in fear justifying his use of force, while not taking away George's right to defend himself.

It's 2 separate issues, but since George is the one being charged, what's relevant is that searching for his phone is not a use of force.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 360
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