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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 5:58:46 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

OH and from what I am hearing, a SYG hearing would not be in Zimmerman best interests. A SYG hearing would required Zimmerman to testify, he has to convince Judge Lester it was in self-defense, and right now, Zimmerman truthfulness is in the dump.



By itself, yeah Zimmerman's credibility with the Judge is kinda in the shitter. But, back it up with the forensics that support his story, the witnesses that support his story and the lack of evidence to refute his story and he has a good shot at winning at SYG.

Especially since now even the lead investigator says he didn't think there was enough evidence for even probable cause to charge him; thus the burden to win at SYG should be easy for Defense to meet.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 381
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 6:08:22 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"But, back it up with the forensics that support his story, the witnesses that support his story and the lack of evidence to refute his story and he has a good shot at winning at SYG. "

I don't see any forensics which support his story that Trayvon Martin attacked him without provocation.

I don't see any witnesses whose testimony can't be opposed -- often by their OWN prior testimony -- saying that Trayvon Martin attacked him without provocation.

I don't see any evidence which SUPPORTS his story.

Perhaps you can explain why Trayvon Martin would have attacked George Zimmerman unprovoked? You *DO* realize that the prosecution is going to be asking that question the moment Zimmerman gets on the stand, right? So, you might want to consider the possible responses to that, and the effect of Zimmerman's inability to answer that.

That's how we know Zimmerman is lying. His story doesn't make any sense.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 382
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 6:18:35 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I don't see any forensics which support his story that Trayvon Martin attacked him without provocation.

I don't see any witnesses whose testimony can't be opposed -- often by their OWN prior testimony -- saying that Trayvon Martin attacked him without provocation.


Doesn't matter. If George was pinned to the ground and unable to get away, as W6 witnessed seconds before the shot, then it doesn't matter who provoked it according to Florida law.


quote:


I don't see any evidence which SUPPORTS his story.


I see lots. Witness statements that support the fight starting where George said it did and moving south to where it ended, the debris field starting from where George said the fight started moving south to where it ended, the gunshot being at close range and at an angle that suggests George didn't have the room to extend his arm fully before firing.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 383
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 6:25:41 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I don't see any forensics which support his story that Trayvon Martin attacked him without provocation.

I don't see any witnesses whose testimony can't be opposed -- often by their OWN prior testimony -- saying that Trayvon Martin attacked him without provocation.


Doesn't matter. If George was pinned to the ground and unable to get away, as W6 witnessed seconds before the shot, then it doesn't matter who provoked it according to Florida law.



Try again. Witness 6 is one of those flip-floppers whose change of story isn't going to endear them to the Jury.

quote:


quote:


I don't see any evidence which SUPPORTS his story.


I see lots.


Yeah, and again, you keep seeing stuff which we've already pointed out as not being relevant. SEE ABOVE


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 384
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 6:30:44 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


Try again. Witness 6 is one of those flip-floppers whose change of story isn't going to endear them to the Jury.



Nope, no flip-flopping there, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise. W6 is sure Martin was on top with Zimmerman trying to get away, just isn't sure if he was punching or just holding him down. It was dark and all.

quote:


Yeah, and again, you keep seeing stuff which we've already pointed out as not being relevant.


I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in your ability to tell what's relevant, so I'll just ignore that.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 7/13/2012 6:31:01 AM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 385
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 9:32:19 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


Try again. Witness 6 is one of those flip-floppers whose change of story isn't going to endear them to the Jury.



Nope, no flip-flopping there, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise. W6 is sure Martin was on top with Zimmerman trying to get away, just isn't sure if he was punching or just holding him down. It was dark and all.

quote:


Yeah, and again, you keep seeing stuff which we've already pointed out as not being relevant.


I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in your ability to tell what's relevant, so I'll just ignore that.


No flip flop... The man later said he wasn't sure who was yelling for help, and that Martin may have merely pinned Zimmerman to the ground.
the witness said that he was no longer sure who was calling for help. Sure a change in his story.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 386
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 9:38:39 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		But nothing unreasonable about the change. It shows W6 is trying to be as honest as he can about what he saw vs. what he thought he saw. And the important point remains consistent: He saw Trayvon on top of George as George struggled to get away, seconds before the shot was fired.

That alone should be more than sufficient for reasonable doubt to acquit George.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 387
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 10:37:41 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But nothing unreasonable about the change. It shows W6 is trying to be as honest as he can about what he saw vs. what he thought he saw. And the important point remains consistent: He saw Trayvon on top of George as George struggled to get away, seconds before the shot was fired.

That alone should be more than sufficient for reasonable doubt to acquit George.


Oh really...first he claims Martin is punching Zimmerman, then he changes his story to pinning Zimmerman, maybe Zimmerman has the hand gun and and it was Martin yelling for help.

So right now there is not a single witness to states Martin even laid a finger on Zimmerman, just Zimmerman word, a proven liar. Oh as to wounds, minor already healing the next day, as the doctor stated, the one O'Mara had his report addmited into the record. Also Zimmerman who stated he has ADHD, a common behavior is self inflicting injuries.

< Message edited by Nosathro -- 7/13/2012 10:49:26 AM >

(in reply to Raiikun)
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RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 11:02:19 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Doesn't pinning Zimmerman require laying at least one finger on him?

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 389
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 3:50:18 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Again, what happens AFTER Zimmerman puts Martin in reasonable fear for his life is irrelevant.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 390
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 3:52:49 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Not true. If George was in reasonable fear of his life, that counts regardless of whether Martin also was. one SYG case involved both parties shooting each other, surviving, and both gaining immunity due to SYG.

The right to self defense is not mutually exclusive.

And in other news, a motion has just been filed to disqualify Judge Lester.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 391
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 3:59:58 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"Mr. Zimmerman fears that the court has already decided that he is not worthy of belief regardless of the type of proceeding or the corroborating evidence that would support his testimony," the motion said.

If the court had decided that Zimmerman isn't worthy of belief, why did the Court grant bail? If the Judge had felt that way, there would have been a contempt charge, and Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten bail.

But, of course in true George Zimmerman fashion, it's never GEORGES' FAULT. It's not GEORGE'S FAULT his credibility is shot because he got his attorney and wife to lie for him. It's the JUDGE for holding him accountable for his choices....

Looks like George is trying to "Judge Shop". But hey, it's nice that his defense attorneys have more ethical commitment than George has. Being lied to by your client must really hurt. ( What's the over/ under on George blaming O'Mara for his shortcomings? )




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 392
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 4:29:17 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"Mr. Zimmerman fears that the court has already decided that he is not worthy of belief regardless of the type of proceeding or the corroborating evidence that would support his testimony," the motion said.

If the court had decided that Zimmerman isn't worthy of belief, why did the Court grant bail? If the Judge had felt that way, there would have been a contempt charge, and Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten bail.

But, of course in true George Zimmerman fashion, it's never GEORGES' FAULT. It's not GEORGE'S FAULT his credibility is shot because he got his attorney and wife to lie for him. It's the JUDGE for holding him accountable for his choices....

Looks like George is trying to "Judge Shop". But hey, it's nice that his defense attorneys have more ethical commitment than George has. Being lied to by your client must really hurt. ( What's the over/ under on George blaming O'Mara for his shortcomings? )




As I stated earlier if Lester has, as you claimed made statements indicating that he thinks Zimmerman is guilty he should be removed from the case, same would be true if he said at this point thatthe state doesn't have a case. He has to be impartial and based on your statements he is anything but.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/13/2012 5:21:18 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 393
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 4:54:19 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Heh the motion makes a good point...Lester in his bond order said that the GPS monitoring thwarted George's plan to flee...but the GPS was suggested by the Defense at the first bond hearing. After George had voluntarily turned himself in the first time.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 394
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 7:03:43 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		It's not the first time George Zimmerman has lied to his lawyers. I'm not surprised that O'Mara wants to secure Zimmerman's appearance for his own reasons. Frankly, look for Zimmerman claiming that O'Mara isn't able to defend him properly because O'Mara has a bias against him. It's everyone's fault but George Zimmerman's. I wonder if he's had a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation to see if there's some dissociative issues.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 395
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 8:45:45 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html

An interesting story if you're following the "Bi4Cop" theory of Zimmerman's "close" relationship with law enforcement...

Wait one sec...

George worked in the home mortgage industry as a mortgage originator IN 2006?

Nice. Well, I know know *EVERYTHING* I need to know about Zimmerman's credibility and honesty. I've said the guy was nothing but a low-level grifter based on his pathetically inept attempts to game the system, but this is the icing on the cake.

Some might suggest that everything happening to George today is simply karma coming back to him.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 7/13/2012 8:50:15 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 396
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 8:54:27 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I wonder if Romney and Zimmerman could be co-defendants and save some money.



I see your killer sense of humor is still rapier sharp......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 397
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 9:03:43 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		My prediction is that Judge Lester will recuse himself. And it will make no difference, since any other Judge is going to take notice of Zimmerman's attempts to defraud the court via coercing his wife and attorney to lie on his behalf, and consider Zimmerman's credibility in the appropriate context. The Judge shopping thing is par for the course for a failed low-level grifter like Zimmerman.

In other words, it doesn't matter who the Judge is, Zimmerman fucked himself in the ass, and NO JUDGE is going to be sympathetic to him. He's going to get the most appeal-proof trial possible.

I hear tell that Zimmerman's best buddy, threw Zimmerman a graduation party when Zimmerman earned his AAS in Crim Justice.

Of course, Zimmerman NEVER EARNED an AAS in Criminal Justice.

But hey, did anyone doubt that Zimmerman would lie to his best friend? I didn't.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 398
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 10:05:54 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Well so Judge Lester went and let Zimmerman out on bail again and this is how Zimmerman and his lawyer respond, they want him out, Zimmerman thinks Lester is biased against poor georgie. So much for being nice....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-new-judge-murder-trial-claims-kenneth-lester-biased-article-1.1114381

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 399
RE: George Zimmerman Update... - 7/13/2012 11:18:05 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		FR

One thing in all the posts about this case is rather curious: As far as I know, no-one has ever argued that the craving for candy contributed to the sequence of events that led to Martin receiving his Darwin Award. If there had been no candy store, this particular sequence of events would not have happened. We ought to close down all candy stores!

On the other hand, closing down all candy stores would be detrimental to the livelihood of all dentists, so it is likely that there will be fierce opposition to the closing them down by the Union of Dentists (UoD).

Besides, the Divine might instead have caused Martin to go out to buy something else, like a chair or a ladder, and to subsequently run into Zimmerman who quite understandably would have suspected Martin of wanting to use such a chair or ladder in a break-in-and-entering. I guess that it just is not possible to escape one's fate...

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 400
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