RE: George Zimmerman Update...

RE: George Zimmerman Update... (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:02:35 PM)
The altercation took place 150' away from George's truck, within line of sight of it even, at the spot George lost him, at least a couple minutes after George lost him. That would have required Trayvon to have come back to that spot from wherever it was he went. No, that doesn't follow. At dark, in the rain. *Perhaps George moved.* Perhaps the difference between sitting in his truck with rain on the windshield and stepping out made his sight return, and Trayvon didn't move at all. *Fact. We know George got out of the truck*.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:04:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But there is evidence. You aint getting it, is it enough to meet burden of proof? That among many pieces of evidence, remains to be seen. The Defense's claim is that George was pinned to the ground, unable to get away, after having taken a broken nose and had his head smacked against concrete (or something else harder than his head) at least twice, as evidenced by George's injuries, Trayvon's lack of injuries, and eyewitness who saw Trayvon on top with George struggling to get away. The State will have to prove that claim wrong to convict George; and if they can't prove that wrong, it will be completely irrelevant who followed or confronted who, according to Florida law. No evidence as of yet is known to the public that refutes that claim, much less disproves it beyond a reasonable doubt.

mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:06:53 PM)
the eyewitnesses will be put thru discrediting, the interest will be focused on if they saw that why didnt they see the shooting, the events before and after and so on. Some guy is pounding a head on the pavement and the rubberneckers not in harms way aint gonna watch the trainwreck? LOL. CM. I rest my case. more reasonable doubt without a cross-examination of the 'facts' presented.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:07:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail *Fact. We know George got out of the truck*. Irrelevant. That happened before George lost sight of Trayvon. George's admission of following happened before he lost sight of Trayvon. After losing sight of Trayvon for at least a couple minutes makes those previous events no longer contemporaneous with Trayvon's assault on George, making them irrelevant in proving George the aggressor. And, of course, no proof seems to exist that George pursued, followed, or confronted Trayvon after George lost sight of him. Where the fight began occurred at where George already was before losing sight of Trayvon.

mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:09:52 PM)
No, we know the opposite to be true. From the phone call with the wiper noise inside the truck, he had lost site of him before stepping out of the truck. In the dark, on a rainy night. That does not mean Trayvon moved.

Lucylastic -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:09:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Given the Judge says that Zimmerman was PLANING ON RUNNING, what do you think the chances are of finding a bondsman who will take the risk? there are morons out there that will pay towards his defense fun. Maybe even a bondsman hey stranger things have happened. look at the moronic law of SYG that turned this into a tragic joke.

mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:11:04 PM)
I dont know why a bondsman wouldnt take it. It aint like just about anybody dont know who the fuck he is, he would be easy to snag. Hell, Dog (the dipshit) might do it for ratings.

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:12:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 Ahh, but you see, Tayvon was within site of his home. The physical altercation took place within view of Trayvon's front door. The altercation took place 150' away from George's truck, within line of sight of it even, at the spot George lost him, at least a couple minutes after George lost him. That would have required Trayvon to have come back to that spot from wherever it was he went. Why did George exit the truck -- where he was safe -- again? Was there some reasonable purpose behind that, knowing that the police were responding?

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:13:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail But there is evidence. You aint getting it, is it enough to meet burden of proof? That among many pieces of evidence, remains to be seen. The Defense's claim is that George was pinned to the ground, unable to get away, after having taken a broken nose and had his head smacked against concrete (or something else harder than his head) at least twice, as evidenced by George's injuries, Trayvon's lack of injuries, and eyewitness who saw Trayvon on top with George struggling to get away. The State will have to prove that claim wrong to convict George; and if they can't prove that wrong, it will be completely irrelevant who followed or confronted who, according to Florida law. No evidence as of yet is known to the public that refutes that claim, much less disproves it beyond a reasonable doubt. I love the way you classify a fatal gunshot to the chest at close range as "Trayvon's lack of injuries"...

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:15:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail *Fact. We know George got out of the truck*. Irrelevant. That happened before George lost sight of Trayvon. George's admission of following happened before he lost sight of Trayvon. After losing sight of Trayvon for at least a couple minutes makes those previous events no longer contemporaneous with Trayvon's assault on George, making them irrelevant in proving George the aggressor. And, of course, no proof seems to exist that George pursued, followed, or confronted Trayvon after George lost sight of him. Where the fight began occurred at where George already was before losing sight of Trayvon. It's not irrelevant. George was TRAINED to stay out of harm's way. George CHOSE to go against that training. Again, why was it that George Zimmerman exited his place of safety where he should have stayed until the police HE HAD CALLED had arrived. That makes no sense, and I'd like to understand why George Zimmerman's overt acts directly contributed to the death of Trayvon Martin.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:18:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I love the way you classify a fatal gunshot to the chest at close range as "Trayvon's lack of injuries"... I figured context would make it clear I was describing the situation in the seconds before the gunshot.

Moonhead -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:19:02 PM)
FR: Now why is there an additional Zimmerman thread here? Have the other mods dragged Gamma out and shot her through the head or something? (or Delta: whichever)

mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:19:35 PM)
If the seconds before the gunshot was suspended in time, as the event horizon at the edge of a black hole, there would be no trial.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:20:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It's not irrelevant. Yes, it is. All that matters for the purpose of ruling for or against self defense is the moment of the shooting: Did George Zimmerman have a reasonable fear of imminent great bodily harm when he pulled the trigger at that moment. The danger didn't even need to be real as long as the fear was.

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:21:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I love the way you classify a fatal gunshot to the chest at close range as "Trayvon's lack of injuries"... I figured context would make it clear I was describing the situation in the seconds before the gunshot. But what relevance do Zimmerman's injuries have? Zimmerman approached, and made threatening motions. At that point, any injury sustained as Trayvon Martin lost the fight for his life aren't relevant to Zimmerman's choices to cause that fight for Trayvon Martin's life, are they? It's only too sad that Trayvon Martin lost that fight for his life.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Given the Judge says that Zimmerman was PLANING ON RUNNING, what do you think the chances are of finding a bondsman who will take the risk? there are morons out there that will pay towards his defense fun. Maybe even a bondsman hey stranger things have happened. look at the moronic law of SYG that turned this into a tragic joke. SYG really has little to do with this case. The only thing it does is remove the obligation to attempt retreat. With George being pinned to the ground and unable to get away, he's covered by traditional self-defense, SYG or no.

mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:22:14 PM)
No, that is pure unadulterated bullshit. What matters are each of the 'facts' presented, assailable, and of different mein to any reasonable man, in the claim of 'self-defense'. The law is clear, and you have quoted it.

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:23:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead FR: Now why is there an additional Zimmerman thread here? Have the other mods dragged Gamma out and shot her through the head or something? (or Delta: whichever) To the best of my knowledge, this is the only George Zimmerman thread.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:24:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle It's only too sad that Trayvon Martin lost that fight for his life. Agreed, it's a tragedy; one avoidable if Trayvon hadn't assaulted George.

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/5/2012 12:25:48 PM)
FWIW, Zimmerman being TRAINED to avoid confrontation, yet choosing to initiate a confrontation == depraved indifference.

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