RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 8:10:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I wonder if anyone has calculated the weight (actually the mass of course) of the sunlight bearing down on the earth at any given time?  Silly me, of course they have...but where?

Any one got a cite?

"Solar radiation exerts a pressure on the sail due to reflection and a small fraction that is absorbed. The absorbed energy heats the sail, which re-radiates that energy off of the front and rear surfaces.

The momentum of a photon or an entire flux is given by p = E/c,[10][11] where E is the photon or flux energy, p is the momentum, and c is the speed of light. At 1 AU the solar power flux density is about 1370 W/m2, resulting in a pressure under:

perfect absorbance: F = 4.57 μN per square meter


perfect reflectance: F = 9.13 μN per square meter"

Assuming the planet would work like a solar sail, all you have to do is calculate the cross section of the planet in square meters (high school geometry) and multiply that number by a constant derived from the average albedo of the planet using the relationships of the above 2 constants (intermediate Calculus)




mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 8:11:45 AM)

Yeah, I was looking for the answer, Hill, I am not one given to idle calculations.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:14:52 AM)

To answer your question, I have to assume a linear relationship between albedo of the object and photonic pressure. since I was only given 2 points, zero and 1.0 that's the best I can do.

The planet has an average diameter of 12,713,500 meters +/- . Using our old friend pi*r^2, we get 50,778,649,119,660 Square meters.

According to this. http://www.climatedata.info/Forcing/Forcing/albedo.html ,the average albedo of the planet = 0.31

9.13 - 4.57 = 4.56 microNewtons/sq M . If we go from the zero albedo number (4.57) and add 0.31 * 4.56 (1.4136) we obtain 5.98 micronewtons/sq M.
This gives us the value of solar pressure on the planet of 3,036,563,217.35 Newtons (er more or less by a few percent).




mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:16:13 AM)

3,036,563,217.35 Newtons ... yeah, I was thinking it was somewhere around there.......LOL.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:17:43 AM)

It ain't rocket science.




Musicmystery -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:20:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I wonder if anyone has calculated the weight (actually the mass of course) of the sunlight bearing down on the earth at any given time?  Silly me, of course they have...but where?

Any one got a cite?

If a square mile of sunlight could be held in your hand it would weigh 3 lbs. All the sunlight falling on the Earth's surface weighs about 87,700 tons.

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1998/6/98.06.10.x.html#e





mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:24:30 AM)

wow, tons and tons of sunlight. And that doesnt take into acount any of the other electromagnetic spectrum we generate or the universe generates falling down on us, goddamit!!!! That hurt, that solar flare!!!! Damn near knocked me out!!!! 




Musicmystery -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:44:49 AM)

Well, that sunlight weighs the same as an ocean liner--the earth can handle it.

Cosmic rays run right through us...makes it easier.




mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:45:46 AM)

So, does Blatz beer, but it would be a misnomer to say I could handle it.




Musicmystery -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 9:54:38 AM)

That's because it stays to visit a while before it leaves.




Edwynn -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 10:10:11 AM)


~FR~


But there are so many trees and shrubs to take the hit of all that weight.

Funny thing is, they don't care about the weight, only the insolation. Energy is what any planet relies on, certainly more so than external mass input.

Plants are photon-grubbing bitches, however measured, no question.

Too bad we keep eliminating more of them, even as we thin the protective layer by exhaust output, eh?







Musicmystery -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 10:13:05 AM)

Not me...I keep planting more.

Now, gotta go water them before all that weight dries 'em out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCw3-YTffo




mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 10:58:53 AM)

C'mere my little photon sponges, daddy has some water for you.....that's it baby, let me peel those little apples off you....do you like that?  Is it good for you?




Edwynn -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 1:48:40 PM)



But ... but ...

"Way down here," we've been fined something like four out of the last ten years for turning on the sprinkler more than twice a week, and proscribed what wee hours of the day allowed even that.

Because we ran out of water.

Wonder how that happened.

Aside having a good excuse for having a dirty car, what is a concientious econo-ecolomongrelist to do here?

"Seems to me," we can't just Walk Away from the water question.





Musicmystery -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 1:52:54 PM)

I live in the Northeast. We have no idea what a water shortage is. We bath in the stuff, swim in it, shower in it, wash and sprinkle with impunity, as if the stuff fell from the sky and flowed in rivers into our lakes.

Which it does here. We let the water run just to hear the sound and watch it drain away.





mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 1:58:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Not me...I keep planting more.

Now, gotta go water them before all that weight dries 'em out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCw3-YTffo


HOUSEPLANTS OF GOR

The spider plant cringed as its owner brought forth the watering can. "I am a spider plant!" it cried indignantly. "How dare you water me before my time! Guards!" it called. "Guards!"
Borin, its owner, placed the watering can on the table and looked at it. "You will be watered," he said.
"You do not dare to water me!" laughed the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.
"Do not water me!" wept the plant.
"You will be watered," said Borin.
I watched this exchange. Truly, I believed the plant would be watered. It was plant, and on Gor it had no rights. Perhaps on Earth, in its permissive society, which distorts the true roles of all beings, which forces both plant and waterer to go unhappy and constrained, which forbids the fulfillment of owner and houseplant, such might not happen. Perhaps there, it would not be watered. But it was on Gor now, and would undoubtedly feel its true place, that of houseplant. It was plant. It would be watered at will. Such is the way with plants.
Borin picked up the watering can, and muchly watered the plant. The plant cried out. "No, Master! Do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. "Please, Master," begged the plant, "do not water me!" The master continued to water the plant. It was plant. It could be watered at will.
The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.
"You have been well watered," said Borin.
"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could be watered by its master at will.
"I have watered you well," said Borin.
"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."
The cactus plant next to the spider plant shuddered. It attempted to cover its small form with its small arms and small needles. "I am plant," it said wonderingly. "I am of Earth, but for the first time, I feel myself truly plantlike. On Earth, I w as able to control my watering. I often scorned those who would water me. But they were weak, and did not see my scorn for what it was, the weak attempt of a small plant to protect itself. Not one of the weak Earth waterers would dare to water a plant if it did not wish it. But on Gor," it shuddered, "on Gor it is different. Here, those who wish to water will water their plants as they wish. But strangely, I feel myself most plantlike when I am at the mercy of a strong Gorean master, who may water m e as he pleases."
"I will now water you," said Borin, the cactus's Gorean master.
The cactus did not resist being watered. Perhaps it was realizing that such watering was its master's to control. Too, perhaps it knew that this master was far superior to those of Earth, who would not water it if it did not wish to be watered.
The cactus's watering had been finished. The spider plant looked at it.
"I have been well watered," it said.
"I, too, have been well watered," said the cactus.
"My master has watered me well," said the spider plant.
"My master, too, has watered me well," said the cactus.
"I am to be placed in a hanging basket on the porch," said the spider plant.
"I, too, am to be placed in a hnaging basket on the porch," said the cactus.
"I wish you well," said the spider plant.
"I, too, wish you well," said the cactus.
"Tal," said the spider plant.
"Tal, too," said the cactus.
I did not think that the spider plant would object to being watered by its master again. For it realized that it was plant, and that here, unlike on Earth, it was likely to be owned and watered by many masters.




Generally attributed to Elle though I cant find the original blog page from the quote. 




Edwynn -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 1:59:47 PM)


If your area of the world is OK, the whole world is OK.

Got it.

Not that I haven't heard that before, in any variety of ways, from that particular corner of the world.

Pardon us for interrupting; you guys just keep pouring whatever you like into the streams and into the air running downhill from you, that's the ticket.

Where can I sign up to tell everybody else to shut up, then?







mnottertail -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 2:09:13 PM)

Look.

Hydrogen and Oxygen, do those things even LOOK like water?:  Disrobing the Frauds of Chemistry
 
Read the book.  See the movie.




Musicmystery -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 2:09:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


If your area of the world is OK, the whole world is OK.

Got it.

Not that I haven't heard that before, in any variety of ways, from that corner of the world.

Pardon us for interrupting; you guys just keep pouring whatever you like into the streams and the air running downhill from you, that's the ticket.

Where can I sign up to tell everybody else to shut up, then?





Oh. I didn't realize it was Asshole Day already.

Where the fuck did I say anything about pouring anything in the water? Where'd you get that shit? How about the part where the MidWest dumps their acid rain in the Adirondacks?

Tell me there, Sparky--how do you expect to use this water here around the globe?

See, it's not like we went and built crap unsustainable in the eco-system. Here, fresh water is a readily renewable resource. We're not even close to using it all. We even use hydro-electric.

We don't grow oranges here because they aren't suitable to the system. We could build huge greenhouses and complain, I suppose. But instead, we grow apples and make maple syrup. We're like that.






Edwynn -> RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe (7/5/2012 2:23:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



Oh. I didn't realize it was Asshole Day already.


I didn't either, until your prior post. Thanks for alerting us there.

quote:

Where the fuck did I say anything about pouring anything in the water?


You didn't. Essential cluelessness sufficed there.

quote:

Where'd you get that shit?


Basic environmental research, sorry. Ever heard of NYC?


quote:

How about the part where the MidWest dumps their acid rain in the Adirondacks?


Yeah! How 'bout them boys! "Yous guys" are sparkling clean in the whole affair, no worries!


quote:

See, it's not like we went and built crap unsustainable in the eco-system. Here, fresh water is a readily renewable resource. We're not even close to using it all. We even use hydro-electric.


Hydro-electric disturbs and greatly abuses and displaces a huge portion of the eco-system, regardless of available rivers or streams, but I'm sure you didn't know that already.


quote:

We don't grow oranges here because they aren't suitable to the system. We could build huge greenhouses and complain, I suppose. But instead, we grow apples and make maple syrup. We're like that.


Congrats, 'sparky,' but every geographical region has to deal with the cards dealt, but I'm sure you didn't know that already.











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