A few points about Healthcare in the US

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jlf1961 -> A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 7:45:15 AM)
1) The United States spends an estimated $2 trillion annually on healthcare expenses, more than any other industrialized country. According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average, and yet ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries without universal health coverage. 2) The United States spent more than 17 percent of its GDP on health care, higher than any other developed nation. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated in 2008 that number would rise to 25 percent by 2025 without changes to federal law. 3) Employer-funded coverage is the structural mainstay of the U.S. health insurance system. A November 2008 Kaiser Foundation report says access to employer-sponsored health insurance has been on the decline among low-income workers, and health premiums for workers have risen 114 percent in the last decade. 4) At 12 percent, health care is the most expensive benefit paid by U.S. employers, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. source Health Insurance is not a safety net either. An estimated three-quarters of people who are pushed into personal bankruptcy by medical problems actually had insurance when they got sick or were injured. Something that Republicans will not admit to is that the insurance companies can deny payment for a number of reasons, including putting a cap on how much treatment they will pay for, opt to only pay for treatments that are less expensive but also less effective. In other words, having a health care plan is a crap shoot. However, countries with Universal Health Care (socialized medicine) have problems with funding. So, what is the solution. For two health problems I have been hit with recently, I racked up 6 grand in uncovered expenses. Now that I am going to a University health center, there is no copay. However, for the 30 million Americans who do not have health coverage, they are royally screwed, and Republicans dont seem to give a shit. The bottom line is that the US health system is a for profit system, and that is where the problem lies. Insurance companies exist to make a profit for their share holders, and to do that they are going to keep raising premiums and health care providers are going to keep raising fees.

subrob1967 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 8:25:27 AM)
Why is making a profit a problem? Don't medical supplies and equipment cost money... Lots of money? The only problem I see is people who think good health is a right, and not the luck of the draw. People will still die, life is a terminal disease. The federal government doesn't have the authority to run the health care system according to the constitution, your state does, however. One last thing, why do some of you think that the federal government is the best option to run a single payer health care system? Can anyone name a single program they run that isn't overloaded with bureaucracy, and overspending?

Hillwilliam -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 8:46:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Don't medical supplies and equipment cost money... Lots of money? The only problem I see is people who think good health is a right, and not the luck of the draw. People will still die, life is a terminal disease. The federal government doesn't have the authority to run the health care system according to the constitution, your state does, however. One last thing, why do some of you think that the federal government is the best option to run a single payer health care system? Can anyone name a single program they run that isn't overloaded with bureaucracy, and overspending? Making a profit is not a problem. Assfucking and then killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is the problem. Capitalism is supposed to be about making a profit by doing something more efficiently and cheaply and outcompeting everyone else. That is not how our healthcare system works. If it did, we wouldn't have the most expensive system in the world with a mediocre (at best) level of care.

jlf1961 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 8:56:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Don't medical supplies and equipment cost money... Lots of money? The only problem I see is people who think good health is a right, and not the luck of the draw. People will still die, life is a terminal disease. The federal government doesn't have the authority to run the health care system according to the constitution, your state does, however. One last thing, why do some of you think that the federal government is the best option to run a single payer health care system? Can anyone name a single program they run that isn't overloaded with bureaucracy, and overspending? I agree that good health is the luck of the draw. HOWEVER I disagree with the idea that people should be denied health care by insurance companies or denied treatment by those same companies. That is not the luck of the draw, that is pure and simple greed.

Lucylastic -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:01:09 AM)
seconds Moon and Jlf

Moonhead -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:03:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Because in this case it's bankrupting (and occasionally killing) people. If the consumer's dead or broke, they can't consume, dig? That's bad form in capitalism.

MasterG2kTR -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:06:33 AM)
quote: Health Insurance is not a safety net either. An estimated three-quarters of people who are pushed into personal bankruptcy by medical problems actually had insurance when they got sick or were injured. One addendum to this is that medical bankruptcy happens to nearly 750,000 americans each year. quote: However, for the 30 million Americans who do not have health coverage, they are royally screwed, and Republicans dont seem to give a shit. It's actually closer to 50 million. Think about that for a moment. That's 1 in every 7 americans. For the whiners, idiots, and morons who think that all of these uninsured are poor and just a drain on your wallet, they are not. Many of them are people who can afford and would gladly pay for their insurance, but they are denied coverage because they have pre-existing conditions. Many of the denied are children who are denied from the day they are born because of conditions at birth. quote: Why is making a profit a problem? Making a profit is not a problem. The problem lies within the fact that you have bean counters with no medical background, telling you or your doctor what procedures or medicines are best to cure what ails you. quote: Don't medical supplies and equipment cost money... Lots of money? That all depends on who you ask. One example is an MRI scan. On average here in the US it will cost you $1200 (and that's just the cost of the scan itself). Go to Japan and that same scan will cost $98. This is NOT due to their socialized medicine. Their engineers found better ways to build the machines to bring down the cost of them (something mandated by the government so they could control health costs in that area), thereby bringing down the cost of the procedure.

subrob1967 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:32:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Don't medical supplies and equipment cost money... Lots of money? The only problem I see is people who think good health is a right, and not the luck of the draw. People will still die, life is a terminal disease. The federal government doesn't have the authority to run the health care system according to the constitution, your state does, however. One last thing, why do some of you think that the federal government is the best option to run a single payer health care system? Can anyone name a single program they run that isn't overloaded with bureaucracy, and overspending? I agree that good health is the luck of the draw. HOWEVER I disagree with the idea that people should be denied health care by insurance companies or denied treatment by those same companies. That is not the luck of the draw, that is pure and simple greed. Um, don't go to a hospital run by a insurance company, last time I looked there were a ton of other options... For instance here in Indiana we have Catholic hospitals, Methodist hospitals, University hospitals, and Community hospitals... I've yet to see the Blue Cross hospital, or the Cigna hospital, or even a Met Life hospital. Define greed for me, because I don't have a problem paying an inflated bill because the hospital is covering the cost of those who can't pay. Again, Insurance is nothing more than a gamble, the company is betting they will make more money on the policy than you will require for coverage... And like any other types of gambling, the deck is stacked in the house's favor... Don't like the limits on your policy, either drop it and pay cash, or find a different policy. What you want is for someone to pay for your medical care, it's nothing more than that... You really don't give a shit if someone else can't afford a policy, or find a policy that fits their particular needs. You want a everything is covered for everyone, fuck the cost as long as MY needs are met plan... Who exactly is being greedy here?

subrob1967 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:36:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Making a profit is not a problem. Assfucking and then killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is the problem. Capitalism is supposed to be about making a profit by doing something more efficiently and cheaply and outcompeting everyone else. That is not how our healthcare system works. If it did, we wouldn't have the most expensive system in the world with a mediocre (at best) level of care. Did you stop and think about why a hospital charges what it does? Could it be because there are people seeking services they can't afford to pay for? Just who is doing the ass fucking here? Is it really the insurance company that is gambling that you'll pay more in premiums, than you will spend in coverage, or the people using the hospitals that can't afford the services? Where is it written that a for profit company must lose money on every transaction to keep you healthy?

Musicmystery -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:47:48 AM)
quote: Um, don't go to a hospital run by a insurance company, last time I looked there were a ton of other options... For instance here in Indiana we have Catholic hospitals, Methodist hospitals, University hospitals, and Community hospitals... I've yet to see the Blue Cross hospital, or the Cigna hospital, or even a Met Life hospital. And their first question is about your insurance.

SadistDave -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:54:09 AM)
ROFLMAO! Still trying to sell Obamacare? Don't worry little liberal buckaroos! Your Fearless Leader and his minions have given you a better, more socially just kind of health care. You don't need to sell it anymore. Now you can all suckle at the government health care tit. I'm really kind of surprised at how unhappy you all seem to be about Obamacare. Shouldn't you all be standing around somewhere singing Kumbaya and smoking weed instead of bitching about the evils of capitalism, now that you have conquered it's evil grip on health care? Oh, and no offence to my liberal pals here, but Democrats still don't have the balls to own the economy they've destroyed. Well, they don't have a choice on this one. As of the implementation of the first parts of Obamacare, any complaints you have concerning health care should be directed to the Democratic Party. If you have a problem with insurance, then maybe you should not have been so keen on a plan like Obamacare that forces people to buy it. This one is all yours kids! If you don't like what you got, I have no sympathy for you. Next time a nitwit like Nancy Pelosi tells you to pass a bill without reading it, maybe you should tell her to go fuck herself. -SD-

Hillwilliam -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 9:59:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam Making a profit is not a problem. Assfucking and then killing the goose that lays the golden eggs is the problem. Capitalism is supposed to be about making a profit by doing something more efficiently and cheaply and outcompeting everyone else. That is not how our healthcare system works. If it did, we wouldn't have the most expensive system in the world with a mediocre (at best) level of care. Did you stop and think about why a hospital charges what it does? Could it be because there are people seeking services they can't afford to pay for? Just who is doing the ass fucking here? Is it really the insurance company that is gambling that you'll pay more in premiums, than you will spend in coverage, or the people using the hospitals that can't afford the services? Where is it written that a for profit company must lose money on every transaction to keep you healthy? They charge what they do because they have to treat whoever shows up and we get to pay for it. how is that different from what just got passed except instead of an ER visit, they'll make an appointment at a "Doc-in-a-Box" which saves money. Again, my point is that Capitalism is all about efficiency and delivering superior goods and services for less money. This allows you to outcompete your opponents. Our healthcare system of by far the most expensive in the world but it isn't even in the top 20 for quality of care. That is NOT Capitalism.

tazzygirl -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 10:49:19 AM)
quote: Um, don't go to a hospital run by a insurance company, last time I looked there were a ton of other options... For instance here in Indiana we have Catholic hospitals, Methodist hospitals, University hospitals, and Community hospitals... I've yet to see the Blue Cross hospital, or the Cigna hospital, or even a Met Life hospital. So because it doesnt have an insurance name on the building, it cannot possibly be owned by an insurance company.... You really do believe some of the things you post, dont you.

Lucylastic -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 10:51:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave ROFLMAO! Still trying to sell Obamacare? Don't worry little liberal buckaroos! Your Fearless Leader and his minions have given you a better, more socially just kind of health care. You don't need to sell it anymore. Now you can all suckle at the government health care tit. I'm really kind of surprised at how unhappy you all seem to be about Obamacare. Shouldn't you all be standing around somewhere singing Kumbaya and smoking weed instead of bitching about the evils of capitalism, now that you have conquered it's evil grip on health care? Oh, and no offence to my liberal pals here, but Democrats still don't have the balls to own the economy they've destroyed. Well, they don't have a choice on this one. As of the implementation of the first parts of Obamacare, any complaints you have concerning health care should be directed to the Democratic Party. If you have a problem with insurance, then maybe you should not have been so keen on a plan like Obamacare that forces people to buy it. This one is all yours kids! If you don't like what you got, I have no sympathy for you. Next time a nitwit like Nancy Pelosi tells you to pass a bill without reading it, maybe you should tell her to go fuck herself. -SD- You are making an awful lot of assumptions there. People are not trying to sell it, because its doesn't go far enough and thats why people dont like it, and gives insurance companies more money, despite the good side of not allowing pre existing conditions to be penalised, birth control being covered and kids being allowed to stay on parental insurance till they are 26. Conquered? you are either dense or baiting, because its far from conquered. The repubs have never admitted their part in the failure of the economy to the point of poking out their own eyes with planks. And they don't have health reform plan that comes close to anything better to replace it with. But keep drinking the toilet water. I don't know wether to give you a tissue or a breath mint

jlf1961 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 11:13:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Did you stop and think about why a hospital charges what it does? Could it be because there are people seeking services they can't afford to pay for? Just who is doing the ass fucking here? Is it really the insurance company that is gambling that you'll pay more in premiums, than you will spend in coverage, or the people using the hospitals that can't afford the services? Where is it written that a for profit company must lose money on every transaction to keep you healthy? Let me see if I understand you, if you are poor and cannot afford health care, you are not to do anything like go to the ER or a doctor. That sure sounds like the typical republican idea that the poor or lower middle class that dont have health insurance dont need medical care.

jlf1961 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 11:15:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave ROFLMAO! Still trying to sell Obamacare? Don't worry little liberal buckaroos! Your Fearless Leader and his minions have given you a better, more socially just kind of health care. You don't need to sell it anymore. Now you can all suckle at the government health care tit. I'm really kind of surprised at how unhappy you all seem to be about Obamacare. Shouldn't you all be standing around somewhere singing Kumbaya and smoking weed instead of bitching about the evils of capitalism, now that you have conquered it's evil grip on health care? Oh, and no offence to my liberal pals here, but Democrats still don't have the balls to own the economy they've destroyed. Well, they don't have a choice on this one. As of the implementation of the first parts of Obamacare, any complaints you have concerning health care should be directed to the Democratic Party. If you have a problem with insurance, then maybe you should not have been so keen on a plan like Obamacare that forces people to buy it. This one is all yours kids! If you don't like what you got, I have no sympathy for you. Next time a nitwit like Nancy Pelosi tells you to pass a bill without reading it, maybe you should tell her to go fuck herself. -SD- First, The Affordable Care Act is NOT socialized medicine, in no part of it does the government take control of health care in the United States. Second, the REPUBLICANS were in control when all the deregulation took place that made the tanking of the Economy possible.

subrob1967 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 12:08:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Because in this case it's bankrupting (and occasionally killing) people. If the consumer's dead or broke, they can't consume, dig? That's bad form in capitalism. Name one person who has survived life.

subrob1967 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 12:09:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Um, don't go to a hospital run by a insurance company, last time I looked there were a ton of other options... For instance here in Indiana we have Catholic hospitals, Methodist hospitals, University hospitals, and Community hospitals... I've yet to see the Blue Cross hospital, or the Cigna hospital, or even a Met Life hospital. And their first question is about your insurance. So? Do they turn you away of you answer I don't have any?

jlf1961 -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 12:09:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Because in this case it's bankrupting (and occasionally killing) people. If the consumer's dead or broke, they can't consume, dig? That's bad form in capitalism. Name one person who has survived life. Subrob, do you agree that everyone is entitled to HEALTH CARE?

Moonhead -> RE: A few points about Healthcare in the US (7/5/2012 12:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Why is making a profit a problem? Because in this case it's bankrupting (and occasionally killing) people. If the consumer's dead or broke, they can't consume, dig? That's bad form in capitalism. Name one person who has survived life. Not my point, and not even a very good attempt at a strawman.

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