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Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 9:16:56 AM   
werebeastie


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Love is not necessary to have a functional Master/slave relationship.

I am often confronted, usually by female subs in a D/s relationship with their husband or boyfriend (or who want to be), about my stand on love being unnecessary to the successful M/s relationship. They tell me my paradigm will alienate me and keep worthwhile slaves from wanting to commit to me. Fact and experience kill those dire predictions. Yet that behavior does raise some questions about the purveyors of such propaganda and their motives.

BDSM is a rather large umbrella under which many find shelter. So one must begin to organize and sectionalize and group accordingly. I am afraid that it is here that we begin to fall prey to our more base natures. Our kinks are good kinks and our way of doing them is the only correct way. Begins to sound like organized religion doesn't it? Because the next step in that cycle is that since our way is the bestest rightest way than it is THE way everyone should do it. So you begin to have people squabbling about the various approaches to finding happiness in life. Today I am going to address the attack on my way of living life. At no time will I say that the way those that attacked me is the wrong way of doing it, I will say it is their way of doing it and if it works for them that is wonderful but it does not make them correct and it certainly does not make them of a higher quality.

Within my relationships as a Master with regard to his slaves I do personally hope to develop strong bonds of love and certainly trust. Yet this love will not be the romantic entanglements of lovers or spouses. Think of how you take a pet. You pick one out of numberless options knowing very little about it quite honestly. You honor this pet by giving it your trust, your care, your attention. You train this pet to be the pet you desire it to be and to act as you would have it. As this pet grows and finds its place within your life your attachment grows. It is hoped your relationship will be symbiotic and synergistic. You will come to know and depend upon one another, your trust will deepen; you will care for your pet even more and may even come to love and cherish it deeply. If you are a good Master this love will be returned many times over with loyalty and trust as well. I have had this relationship with many of my pets human and otherwise. Never made me want to marry one of them. So if the idea of being compared to other chattel is offensive than you are not the quality slave I want. When I accept a slave's offer to give herself to me it is with the understanding that she is mine completely without reservation to do with as I will.

It is my opinion that a slave that will give itself over to its Master completely, no limits, no reservations is taking a much deeper leap of faith in its lifestyle choice than is the spouse that fancies a bit of kinky play. One might say it is a matter of degree but this is kiddie pool wading versus deep sea diving and the pressure down there are dangerous.

Now allow me to address the issue of quality. I was told no worthwhile slaves would be interested in my version of M/s. I find that terribly offensive. What sort of judgmental nonsense is that? To my way of thinking if this were an organized religion those slaves that give themselves to me knowing there is no romantic entanglement, knowing that we exist as Owner and property would be the clergy while husband/wife D/s M/s teams would be followers of our truth.
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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 9:24:28 AM   
myotherself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie


Now allow me to address the issue of quality. I was told no worthwhile slaves would be interested in my version of M/s. I find that terribly offensive. What sort of judgmental nonsense is that? To my way of thinking if this were an organized religion those slaves that give themselves to me knowing there is no romantic entanglement, knowing that we exist as Owner and property would be the clergy while husband/wife D/s M/s teams would be followers of our truth.


To my way of thinking, this is judgemental nonsense.

I say that any M/s relationship which thrives and helps both Master/Mistress and slave to grow as people is a successful one.
One is no better than the other - there is space for all types of relationship, with or without love.

I don't see your way of doing things as the truth - I see it as your particular kink and your preference.

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 9:25:09 AM   
OsideGirl


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I believe you do not necessarily need love for an M/s relationship.

You say that you're not attacking those that attack you, but yet you come across as condescending and compare them to the kiddie end of the pool. So, yeah, you are.

Lastly, everyone has limits. Period. There is no discussion that will change that. Even if you share those limits with the D in your life and you no longer have the need to trot them out on a daily basis.....you still have things that you will not do.

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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 9:36:57 AM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
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what Bunny and Oside said.

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 9:37:23 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie
BDSM is a rather large umbrella under which many find shelter. So one must begin to organize and sectionalize and group accordingly.

People do this, sure, but I don't agree that it "must" be done. It's labeling plain and simple and, in my opinion, judgmental and short-sighted. Dividing people up into neat, tidy grouped sections is just not ever really a good idea to me.

quote:

I am afraid that it is here that we begin to fall prey to our more base natures. Our kinks are good kinks and our way of doing them is the only correct way. Begins to sound like organized religion doesn't it?

Begins to sound like human nature to me. I try to resist falling "prey" to such ignorant behavior. Some don't resist.

quote:

Because the next step in that cycle is that since our way is the bestest rightest way than it is THE way everyone should do it. So you begin to have people squabbling about the various approaches to finding happiness in life.

Are you new on planet Earth? People in all walks of life differ and disagree about the best approach to finding happiness in life. It doesn't necessarily have one thing to do with religion or BDSM.

quote:

It is my opinion that a slave that will give itself over to its Master completely, no limits, no reservations is taking a much deeper leap of faith in its lifestyle choice than is the spouse that fancies a bit of kinky play. One might say it is a matter of degree but this is kiddie pool wading versus deep sea diving and the pressure down there are dangerous.

Yeah. And one MIGHT see it as utter bullshit. Just because you are kinky and want a slave to do what you say with no questions asked does NOT mean that your relationships involve "taking a much deeper leap of faith." CRAP! Any two people who enter into a committed relationship (marriage or not) are taking somewhat of a "leap of faith." Just because one involves lots of kinky sex and dress up doesn't mean it's better, more important or takes one more shred of "faith" than the other. No no no no no.

luci



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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 9:49:35 AM   
JanahX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: werebeastie

Love is not necessary to have a functional Master/slave relationship.



Depends on how someone defines the word "love" - and if and how someone develops those feelings is completely out of your or their control. You are not a Vulcan - even though you might think you are.


Never made me want to marry one of them. So if the idea of being compared to other chattel is offensive than you are not the quality slave I want. When I accept a slave's offer to give herself to me it is with the understanding that she is mine completely without reservation to do with as I will.

So it is your opinion that if you love someone - you are to marry them? I know a lot of people that are very fond of each other and dont marry. There are many reasons that people get married. Love does not necessarily equal marriage.

You come accross a bit jaded in the marriage dept. Did you get screwed in a divorce settlement or something of the sort in your past?


It is my opinion that a slave that will give itself over to its Master completely, no limits, no reservations is taking a much deeper leap of faith in its lifestyle choice than is the spouse that fancies a bit of kinky play. One might say it is a matter of degree but this is kiddie pool wading versus deep sea diving and the pressure down there are dangerous.

You are delusional to think that someone would really give themselves over to you without limits. Sure - they'll say whatever, to keep your ego inflated to make you think that you have unlimited control over them -or just to make you stick around, but in all reality - they'll say "no-limits" until something happens that THEY WONT DO- and guess what? (whispers - I would call that a limit.)

-And let me add this, -----> if you feel that you have to force someone to do something that they dont want to do - at that point its non-consensual. Game OVER.


Now allow me to address the issue of quality. I was told no worthwhile slaves would be interested in my version of M/s. I find that terribly offensive. What sort of judgmental nonsense is that? To my way of thinking if this were an organized religion those slaves that give themselves to me knowing there is no romantic entanglement, knowing that we exist as Owner and property would be the clergy while husband/wife D/s M/s teams would be followers of our truth.


Dont kid yourself - to many people this IS a religion. They are so neck deep in it, its all they think, talk, eat, sleep and shit about. But hey, if all of what youve mentioned is working out for you and you are successful at it, - then good for you. Awesome - youve figured out something that many people that come here and more or less say what youve said -but have ZERO LUCK in finding that perfect all giving slave.

Im thinking that you actually have had some success in the past reeling them in - (from reading your journal entries) but I also get the feeling that they dont stick around for very long. I WONDER WHY.... (puts finger to mouth and ponders - hmmmmm.)

Im not sure what the question here is - or if you just needed to get this off your chest - perhaps to the naysayers that are telling you that no one would be interested in your version of what you want for dynamics.

After reading your profile, I got to thinking what would this women would tell her friends, family, and co-workers? That she's your slave and thats it? I can here it now - "Co-worker - SO HOW ARE THINGS WITH SO AND SO?" "Your slave - Oh just wonderful - he doesnt love me, never will, wont ever marry me, I'm not his girlfriend - I just live with him to serve him and do what he says, when he says, how he says, and he kink fucks me in return."

Friends and families love to hear that coming from people they actually DO LOVE. This person that they love -Completely goalless - except to suck your dick. ----> Oh and send out the Christmas cards - cant forget about that one!

In your profile you state you "want a woman that will give herself over to me completely, heart, body, mind and soul."- interesting that you want this from someone, but are not willing to give that over yourself. (well your body of course - gotta focus on the sex and USING her to any fit way you desire)

Also in your profile - it seems to be all about you and what you want. Thats nice - how lovely for you. I dont see much about what youre willing to be giving her in return. It looks like some kinky sex, a house to live in, and thats about it. I guess a desperate, homeless person that has no life, friends or family would gladly chomp at that. But then in the same breath, you state youre also looking for quality - STOP THE PRESSES - BIG NEWS HERE: People of quality have their own identities. It looks like youre looking for someone that has NO identity and is just going to formulate their life all around you.

Your logic is very flawed.


< Message edited by JanahX -- 7/8/2012 10:53:51 AM >


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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 10:00:41 AM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
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Journal repost:

quote:



Well...
I have something I need to get off my chest.
I've got to say, most profiles of male dominants on here just leave me shaking my head...


So... you want a slave girl... good... nearly every male Dom on this site wants the same, join the club.


The thing that leaves me wondering on if you're going to find her though is this: why?
Why would a girl want to be your slave?
What do you have to offer her?
What makes you different than every other male Dom looking for the same thing as you are?
Why YOU and not the next guy?

You give no information whatsoever on what SHE is getting out of this, other than that she'll have the privilege of being your slave.

If that's all a girl needed to beg a collar from a man then ANY man would do...
Seriously, it's not because you're looking for a slave that suddenly it becomes ALL about you.
Really... it doesn't become ALL about you until AFTER you've got that collar around her neck.


Prior to that, you are still courting a... WOMAN.


Not a slave, but a woman.
You are still trying to convince HER that you are the right guy for her.
That you're better than the next guy.
That you're different than the next guy.
That YOU are going to make HER feel special.
If you can't do that, then sorry dude, she IS going to move on to the next guy who CAN make her feel special...

So if you're the guy that has one of those none descript profiles... or one of those profiles that is all about what YOU want, and about what she has to offer to you... youmight wanna think about that a little and make some adjustments to your profile...

Because that magical "perfect" woman for you you're describing here... she exists.
She really does exist.
But not only does she exist... she also has the luxury that EVERY guy like you wants her...
And because of that... it's HER and not you, that can afford to be VERY selective and picky about her future D/M/partner.
And sorry dude... unlike some of the other men out there... you just don't show that you've got her anything at all to offer...

So no matter how much you want her... she'll never want you...

Unless you clean up your act, and put forward some semblance of realism in your desires.





_____________________________


Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 10:01:37 AM   
AVegasMaster


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Love is not essential to a successful M/S relationship.

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 10:17:20 AM   
wildernessbitch


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Joined: 5/19/2012
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I am unsure why you feel that you cannot have romantic love towards your property. I think that you are getting hung up on semantics and past experiences with what you perceive as "girlfriend" or "wife"
You say that you are not interested in putting down other's choices and yet you compare people with love in their bdsm to be wading in the kiddie pool and they should look up to you and your one day slave as some kind of ideal to be achieved.
If it works for you, great. Keep on keeping on and quite trying to tell people how they should run their bdsm relationships (and tell others that do belittle your relationship choice the same thing)

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 10:38:06 AM   
Moonlightmaddnes


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Everyone I know IRL that is in a BDSM or kink relationship is either married or in a committed relationship with their partner so from my perspective yes I see a lot of love involved. The only non romantic aspects I find with this is on line.

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 10:51:39 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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OK, I'm passing on the all the obvious snark and I'll comment that you have come here and given us a You-101 class. What makes you think any of us are interested in you?

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 10:56:36 AM   
searching4mysir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AVegasMaster

Love is not essential to a successful M/S relationship.


For some of us, however, it is. Very few men who claim the title of "Dom", "Lord" or "Master" will EVER see the submissive, slavish me.

Posts like the OPs make me giggle and think "Bless his heart".

(in reply to AVegasMaster)
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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 11:19:25 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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As one half of a husband/wife M/s partnership, thank you for being a shining example of the purest, truest, deepest form of power exchange which I, as a married woman, can never hope to attain. Clearly since I signed that marriage certificate I can never give myself fully and without reservation and my husband and I are doomed to forever paddle at the shallow end of the pool. Thank goodness we have those wiser and more committed than us to show us how it is done.

Seriously, this is very patronizing. You criticize those who feel love is essential by saying they are trying to make the lifestyle into an organized religion, and then say that if it was a religion, you would in fact be the elder and we the followers?

None of this:

quote:

You honor this pet by giving it your trust, your care, your attention. You train this pet to be the pet you desire it to be and to act as you would have it. As this pet grows and finds its place within your life your attachment grows. It is hoped your relationship will be symbiotic and synergistic. You will come to know and depend upon one another, your trust will deepen; you will care for your pet even more and may even come to love and cherish it deeply. If you are a good Master this love will be returned many times over with loyalty and trust as well. I have had this relationship with many of my pets human and otherwise.


excludes romantic attachment in my eyes. With the exception of the training part, much of this could be applied to many successful marriages, d/s or vanilla.

I have no idea who you are defending yourself against - I don't recall seeing people argue that you couldn't have a M/s relationship without romantic love, just that for them personally, it wouldn't work. For you, marriage and M/s is a different dynamic. For some of us, the two are heavily intertwined concepts. Your 'defense' comes across more as a self-congratulatory note on your own superiority.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 1:13:36 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


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Werebeastie,

Just as you tire of others saying their way is the right way, it appears that you started an entire thread to try and convince us that yours "is the bestest rightest way," to use your own words. Listen, at the age of 46, you've been around this planet long enough to realize that no one likes to preached to about the one true way of doing anything, whether it's M/s or anything else.

It would be really easy for me to sit here and tell you what an idiot I think you are for calling a person an "it," or for even thinking there is really such a thing as a no-limits slave. Honestly, do you think your slave would not have a limit against death and dismemberment? Get real. Right there are two limits.

I try not to push my way as the one true way. I find it offensive when other people try to cram their one true way down my throat. You say you don't like that behavior in others, yet you are doing exactly the same thing.

NBMG

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 1:22:58 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Your basic concept is correct. By which, I agree with the first sentence of the post. To some, Myself included, romantic love is not necessarily a component for a successful M/s dynamic. At the same time, that particular type of dynamic isn't suited for everyone. Some people, for example, would never be happy in a service only based dynamic. Unhappy people don't tend to stick around very long.

To Me, there really can be a difference between loving someone and being *in love* with someone. If I happened to be monogamous, rather than poly, I'd probably be singing a different tune on this one. I can't really say I'd have the same stance if one relationship had to fulfill all of My wants. The very reason that I do just fine without romantic love being a part of My dynamic is because I already get that from somewhere else.

That doesn't make My dynamic better, or truer, or deeper in some way. It just makes it different. Some of the people who have dynamics that I admire and greatly respect do happen to be married, in love, and all of those other things that may have been the inspiration for your "kiddie pool" comment. Take My word for it. They really are swimming in the big pool.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 1:35:19 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
For some folks

quote:

Love is not necessary to have a functional Master/slave relationship.


For other folks, it is necessary.

If love is not necessary for you, then find someone who sees things the same way. This shit aint rocket science.

_____________________________

yep

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 1:37:22 PM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
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Poster,

Good post. I know there are slaves that do this. Not delusional it happens. I dont find your post at all condescending.

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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 1:59:47 PM   
TNDommeK


Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
I do not think you have to have love but it is a perk. lol.
I love these girls here to death, I know the feel the love I have for them. I know the Hubs loves them as well. It's just a great thing. But, I don't think it has to be in the relationship. There are all types of different relationships, maybe ones that love should not be present in. But I think everyone wants to feel some sort of something with love.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 2:08:33 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
As one half of a husband/wife M/s partnership, thank you for being a shining example of the purest, truest, deepest form of power exchange which I, as a married woman, can never hope to attain. Clearly since I signed that marriage certificate I can never give myself fully and without reservation and my husband and I are doomed to forever paddle at the shallow end of the pool. Thank goodness we have those wiser and more committed than us to show us how it is done.

Oh god! This is me spluttering in laughter. Priceless!

And insofar as who he is defending against. As I understand it we have a Super-Dom here finding himself defensive in the face of "attacks" from random subs.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Love is not necessary M/s relationship - 7/8/2012 2:26:41 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

As one half of a husband/wife M/s partnership, thank you for being a shining example of the purest, truest, deepest form of power exchange which I, as a married woman, can never hope to attain. Clearly since I signed that marriage certificate I can never give myself fully and without reservation and my husband and I are doomed to forever paddle at the shallow end of the pool. Thank goodness we have those wiser and more committed than us to show us how it is done.


Athena, I think we need to keep you. This was great.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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