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HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 5:57:19 AM   
Glorify


Posts: 5
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline
As with many geek-centric sub cultures, BDSM and Collarme in particular are host to a large number of hypocrites. If challenged by the vanilla world about their kinks and fetishes they would answer with vehemence and outrage that they don't allow the larger group to impose its rules and values on them and that they determine their own values.

Then when they find themselves in the majority in their sub culture world (despite still being a minority in the world in general) they commit the sins that were visited on them but with far more intolerance.

They reject the notion that there is a rule set in society that must be adhered to, separate themselves and gather in a loose federation then instantly go about establishing a rule set that is far more strict and intolerant. It is simply hypocritical and frankly very immature.

Recently in a post and in my profile I expressed my own views about what d/s dynamic works for me. I also expressed in my profile what I thought were certain types who pretend to be Subs or Domm's for reasons other than the obvious (Someone Domm'ing for a fee for example, or a sub using their physical desirability to lure and control a so called 'Dom' and strictly dictating what the Dom must do to them). My point was to say that in my belief there is a 'definition' of what a Dom/Domme and a Sub/slave is but there are not 'rule's about how to set up that relationship. So a real Dom/Domme and Sub/slave can have any agreement they want but if they are not actually a Dom/Domme or Sub/slave then it's not really real and is an ulterior motivated charade.

Again, to clarify. There 'IS' a definition of what a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is but there 'ARE NOT' any rules about how they might go about a mutually consensual dynamic within that relationship.

The problem is that some people get this the wrong way around. They assert that due to external roleplay/costumes/body language etc they are Dom/Domme or sub/slave while internally they may be just the opposite. For example, a lonely person who plays the role in the costume of a Dom/Domme and does everything a so called sub wants but is motivated by a desire for attention and company is really not a Dom/Domme but a sub as he/she is asking/sensing what the other wants and conforming; I think that makes them a sub/slave. Also, as mentioned above there is thre demanding person who wants to be served/serviced who finds a needy Dom/Domme figure and directly or indirectly dictates a strict list of how they wan to be treated/what they want done to them and if the Dom/Domme does'nt work hard enough in doing so they drop them and keep filtering until find the one who will serve them in exactly the way they wish. As we all know, they are not subs/slave but Doms/Domme's.

So, yes, there is a clear definition of what a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is and we can see through those who are one but pretend to be the other. However, there are not rules about how these genuine ones should act or develop a dynamic between them.

Also, being a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is not written into their DNA. However a person can have a desire to grow into being one or the other when they are not quite there yet, just as an extremely shy person can have a desire to be confident and train themself and transform from one to the other. Also, the roles are somewhat relative so a person can feel and enjoy being ruled by a more powerful person or vice versa depending on the person.

The hipocricy in this world comes, especially on these forums, from those who are very geeky and like to think that their 'rules' should apply to everyone and even more than that, their rules or the ones of a group within BDSM that they have bought into are 'the authority' and mandated but some unknown God of bdsm.

As I said, the 'definitions' are clear (although there is debate as to if they are relative or absolute) but the 'rules' simply don't exist.

One poster recently commented to me that 'most' people in the bdsm world think a certain way about what dynamic between a Dom and sub is so by virtue of the fact that they were in the majority. Well by that logic the greater group (the vanilla world) put her lifestyle in the minority so render her views 'wrong'.

It doesn't take long on entering into a sub culture world before a person feels the vitriol and ire and condemnation of those who think you arn't 'conforming' to their way of doing things. It's almost tedious in its predictability. Way back when I was a teen punk I was attracted by the anarchic 'no rules' mentality to the culture as much as the music but soon found all the punks gathering together and dressing far more identically than the general 'non punk' world. I even found myself being told that I'm not a 'real punk' because I didn't have the right look (uniform). somehow it came about that some kind of leopard skin bum flap, chain linking the knees, tartan trousers etc was 'the identifying look'. So it was with the immaturity of the punk scene and so it is with the immaturity of the bdsm d/s scene. Ho Ho, the parallels are amazing. The conformity of the attitude, the uniform like leather/rubber costumes . . .

So let me just ask . . . . if you happen to see a post of mine and I use concepts of the d/s dynamic that you don't like or that arn't for you then you are free to say so. But don't be telling me that this or that way of doing things are 'wrong' or 'misinformed' etc. It doesn't matter how many people think as you do on this issue. It doesn't even matter if it's a 99% to 1% ratio. THERE IS NO SET WAY. THERE ARE NO RULES.

Perhaps to end I might help you understand this with an analogy. To play pool you pretty much need a table, balls and a cue. In the UK they have different rules to the USA. but both are Pool. A person from the UK can't go to the USA and say they are doing it wrong. Now, if they were in a field doing cartwheels and saying 'look, we are playing Pool' then you could say 'no you aren’t' (on the understanding that they both mean the same thing when they say 'Pool') but if they actually play Pool and have different rules, such as naming the ball they will pot each time or not, then no one can tell them they are doing it wrong.

THERE ARE NO RULES. So keep your restricting, conformist opinions to yourself or your own sub group and don't be snarky and try to establish the idea that your opinions are the law of the bdsm world.


Profile   Post #: 1
RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 6:26:18 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
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?

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 7/9/2012 6:33:55 AM >


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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 6:34:50 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
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There wasn't a question. It was simply a repetitive vent or scolding.

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 6:37:26 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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I am agreeing with the post above me.
I will say one thing though... you are taking things way to seriously. I personally don't give a crap about what other people do or think, I go my own way and think it is stupid to let someone else dictate how I should be doing it. If they don't like it, tough. Why do you let what a few people say about this stuff rile you up so much?


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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 6:47:53 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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"There 'IS' a definition of what a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is"

In general terms, I agree. However, there is NO universally agreed-upon definition.

"However a person can have a desire to grow into being one or the other when they are not quite there yet,"

I disagree with the idea behind this. I've known Dommes who evolved to being subs/switches, and subs who evolved into being subs/switches. But it was self-discovery that drove them. It came from WITHIN. The DESIRE to change indicates that it's being forced, not allowed to naturally develop.

"Also, the roles are somewhat relative so a person can feel and enjoy being ruled by a more powerful person or vice versa depending on the person"

Agreed. I've known some switches that do just that.

"The hipocricy in this world comes, especially on these forums, from those who are very geeky and like to think that their 'rules' should apply to everyone and even more than that, their rules or the ones of a group within BDSM that they have bought into are 'the authority' and mandated but some unknown God of bdsm. "

I'm not sure what geekiness has to do with any of this. Sounds like you're ranting because someone disagrees with you.

"The hipocricy in this world comes, especially on these forums, from those who are very geeky and like to think that their 'rules' should apply to everyone and even more than that, their rules or the ones of a group within BDSM that they have bought into are 'the authority' and mandated but some unknown God of bdsm."

Absolutely wrong. The group makes the rules for the group. Let me give you an analogy. I'm Jewish. We have regular services, in which we make prayers over candle lighting, challah, and wine. We speak Hebrew. We pray about the oneness of God. You get the idea. If some Catholic/Protestant/Muslim/Mormon/atheist/Buddhist comes in and tells us we're doing it all wrong, we throw him out. If some Jew tells us we're doing it wrong because the Catholic/Protestant/Muslim/Mormon/atheist/Buddhist people didn't get a say, we throw him out.

"It doesn't take long on entering into a sub culture world before a person feels the vitriol and ire and condemnation of those who think you arn't 'conforming' to their way of doing things. It's almost tedious in its predictability."

So what did you do? Tried to steal an owned sub away? Touched someone's possessions without permission?

There are numerous people who have joined the kink world with no issues. You're not one of them. The problem does not lie within the kink world itself.

"So it was with the immaturity of the punk scene and so it is with the immaturity of the bdsm d/s scene. Ho Ho, the parallels are amazing. The conformity of the attitude, the uniform like leather/rubber costumes . . . "

I have been to various events that do not have leather or rubber costumes. And you saying that the kink scene is similar to the punk scene is your opinion, and I disagree with it.

"So let me just ask . . . . if you happen to see a post of mine and I use concepts of the d/s dynamic that you don't like or that arn't for you then you are free to say so."

I appreciate you granting me permission. Not that I'd refrain anyway.

"But don't be telling me that this or that way of doing things are 'wrong' or 'misinformed' etc. It doesn't matter how many people think as you do on this issue. It doesn't even matter if it's a 99% to 1% ratio. THERE IS NO SET WAY. THERE ARE NO RULES. "

There ARE in fact ways of doing things right, and wrong. Sorry that you disagree.

"THERE ARE NO RULES. So keep your restricting, conformist opinions to yourself or your own sub group and don't be snarky and try to establish the idea that your opinions are the law of the bdsm world. "

Is the irony lost on you? You're claiming that the absence of rules is an inviolate rule.



_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 7:17:33 AM   
RemoteUser


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I don't think the desire to inflict or accept pain is socially engineered, so I'm going to go ahead and say the DNA comment is wrong. (Yes, I used the word wrong. Deal. We all have to, sooner or later.)


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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 7:17:57 AM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
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Glorify, while you say there is a definition of dom/sub but that there is no rule with respect to how that should manifest itself, then how can there be a definition?

You describe a dominant who does what their submissive wants is not a dominant in your world. Ok. But you're making that judgement based on the rules of their dynamic. What if the dominant wants to please their submissive. Is that not allowed? Is that against the community's rules of d/s, or just your rules of how the dynamic should work? Are you allowing for dominants who are not sadists?

To be dominant is to be in charge. That's all. If the dominant decides that the only food that comes into the home are the slave's favorites, then so be it. If the dominant decides that the slave is going to have an amazing massage and then a well deserved O, followed by snacks and a bath, so be it. If the dominant only uses the submissive's favorite flogger, and single tail, but never a quirt, so be it.

It doesn't mean these things will happen on the slave's schedule, but if that's what the dominant wants.. are you going to tell him or her that the dynamic of their relationship is wrong?


You know.. I think you'd get a lot more satisfaction if you just told whoever it is that pissed you off to go.. well .. piss off.

This is just sounding like contrived moral indignation that is sadly reminiscent of high school.

You're just trying too hard to be right and it's not working for you. I'm new here, I have no skin in this game, I don't know you or those to whom you refer. But you'd be well advised to put a lid on this "so there" <hair flip> attitude.

Just sayin'
This is sounding like the decades old argument of who is "real".

p.s.

It's "hypocrisy".

Yes, I've been called the EBFH, aka "editor bitch from hell". an acronym I blatantly plagiarized (from someone I had a great deal of respect for in the BDSM forum on the old ACLU boards).

< Message edited by evesgrden -- 7/9/2012 7:26:46 AM >


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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 7:24:41 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
Why is is that you spelled "hypocrites" correctly, but not "Hypocrisy"?

Inquisitive Hib

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 7:32:13 AM   
masmiss


Posts: 494
Joined: 2/16/2009
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y

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I am the captain of my soul.

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 7:34:52 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
@Glorify

Wait wait.. Kana had the perfect quote for this situation just a few days ago.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahahaha - Kana

Although man, if I knew how to say that in Klingon I could definitely geek it up a notch. Wait... there as that super dom a few days ago who was terribly wounded by the packs of roving submissives hurling insults at him. Maybe you two could hook up. I'm seeing some good chemistry there.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 7:45:38 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Glorify

It doesn't take long on entering into a sub culture world before a person feels the vitriol and ire and condemnation of those who think you arn't 'conforming' to their way of doing things.


Actually, the only people that treated me with vitriol, ire and condemnation were guys that thought because I had labeled myself as submissive it meant I obeyed every wank with a penis. But, honestly, I view them as opportunists rather than a part of the community.

Here's my reality. I've been in the same D/s relationship for 12.5 years. We're wonderfully happy. I really don't care if someone else thinks I'm doing it right because our relationship is proof enough that it works for us.


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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:02:24 AM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Glorify
BDSM and Collarme in particular are host to a large number of hypocrites. If challenged by the vanilla world about
their kinks and fetishes they would answer with vehemence and outrage that they don't allow the larger group to
impose its rules and values on them and that they determine their own values.

So, this is you, stating with vehemence and outrage, that you will not allow the larger group to impose
it's rules and values on you, yes? Good for you. You have learned that nobody else can dictate your happiness.

Welcome to BDSM-land on a message board, where differing opinions run rampant. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Can you imagine us all sitting here, staring at the empty white space, and having nothing to write except "I agree"?

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When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:18:03 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
~FR~

*sniff sniff* I smell butt-hurt.

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:19:27 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

@Glorify

Wait wait.. Kana had the perfect quote for this situation just a few days ago.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahahaha - Kana

Although man, if I knew how to say that in Klingon I could definitely geek it up a notch. Wait... there as that super dom a few days ago who was terribly wounded by the packs of roving submissives hurling insults at him. Maybe you two could hook up. I'm seeing some good chemistry there.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe-RQ79RKG4

you're welcome.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:21:35 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
FALSE ADVERTISING!! that was NOT a compilation!!

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:27:08 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
Sighs.

Posts like these just show how blatantly insecure people are.

Just live your life as you see fit and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.


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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:29:10 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
SexyRedelicious!! *hugs*

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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:33:58 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Glorify

As with many geek-centric sub cultures, BDSM and Collarme in particular are host to a large number of hypocrites. If challenged by the vanilla world about their kinks and fetishes they would answer with vehemence and outrage that they don't allow the larger group to impose its rules and values on them and that they determine their own values.

Then when they find themselves in the majority in their sub culture world (despite still being a minority in the world in general) they commit the sins that were visited on them but with far more intolerance.

They reject the notion that there is a rule set in society that must be adhered to, separate themselves and gather in a loose federation then instantly go about establishing a rule set that is far more strict and intolerant. It is simply hypocritical and frankly very immature.

Recently in a post and in my profile I expressed my own views about what d/s dynamic works for me. I also expressed in my profile what I thought were certain types who pretend to be Subs or Domm's for reasons other than the obvious (Someone Domm'ing for a fee for example, or a sub using their physical desirability to lure and control a so called 'Dom' and strictly dictating what the Dom must do to them). My point was to say that in my belief there is a 'definition' of what a Dom/Domme and a Sub/slave is but there are not 'rule's about how to set up that relationship. So a real Dom/Domme and Sub/slave can have any agreement they want but if they are not actually a Dom/Domme or Sub/slave then it's not really real and is an ulterior motivated charade.

Again, to clarify. There 'IS' a definition of what a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is but there 'ARE NOT' any rules about how they might go about a mutually consensual dynamic within that relationship.

The problem is that some people get this the wrong way around. They assert that due to external roleplay/costumes/body language etc they are Dom/Domme or sub/slave while internally they may be just the opposite. For example, a lonely person who plays the role in the costume of a Dom/Domme and does everything a so called sub wants but is motivated by a desire for attention and company is really not a Dom/Domme but a sub as he/she is asking/sensing what the other wants and conforming; I think that makes them a sub/slave. Also, as mentioned above there is thre demanding person who wants to be served/serviced who finds a needy Dom/Domme figure and directly or indirectly dictates a strict list of how they wan to be treated/what they want done to them and if the Dom/Domme does'nt work hard enough in doing so they drop them and keep filtering until find the one who will serve them in exactly the way they wish. As we all know, they are not subs/slave but Doms/Domme's.

So, yes, there is a clear definition of what a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is and we can see through those who are one but pretend to be the other. However, there are not rules about how these genuine ones should act or develop a dynamic between them.

Also, being a Dom/Domme and sub/slave is not written into their DNA. However a person can have a desire to grow into being one or the other when they are not quite there yet, just as an extremely shy person can have a desire to be confident and train themself and transform from one to the other. Also, the roles are somewhat relative so a person can feel and enjoy being ruled by a more powerful person or vice versa depending on the person.

The hipocricy in this world comes, especially on these forums, from those who are very geeky and like to think that their 'rules' should apply to everyone and even more than that, their rules or the ones of a group within BDSM that they have bought into are 'the authority' and mandated but some unknown God of bdsm.

As I said, the 'definitions' are clear (although there is debate as to if they are relative or absolute) but the 'rules' simply don't exist.

One poster recently commented to me that 'most' people in the bdsm world think a certain way about what dynamic between a Dom and sub is so by virtue of the fact that they were in the majority. Well by that logic the greater group (the vanilla world) put her lifestyle in the minority so render her views 'wrong'.

It doesn't take long on entering into a sub culture world before a person feels the vitriol and ire and condemnation of those who think you arn't 'conforming' to their way of doing things. It's almost tedious in its predictability. Way back when I was a teen punk I was attracted by the anarchic 'no rules' mentality to the culture as much as the music but soon found all the punks gathering together and dressing far more identically than the general 'non punk' world. I even found myself being told that I'm not a 'real punk' because I didn't have the right look (uniform). somehow it came about that some kind of leopard skin bum flap, chain linking the knees, tartan trousers etc was 'the identifying look'. So it was with the immaturity of the punk scene and so it is with the immaturity of the bdsm d/s scene. Ho Ho, the parallels are amazing. The conformity of the attitude, the uniform like leather/rubber costumes . . .

So let me just ask . . . . if you happen to see a post of mine and I use concepts of the d/s dynamic that you don't like or that arn't for you then you are free to say so. But don't be telling me that this or that way of doing things are 'wrong' or 'misinformed' etc. It doesn't matter how many people think as you do on this issue. It doesn't even matter if it's a 99% to 1% ratio. THERE IS NO SET WAY. THERE ARE NO RULES.

Perhaps to end I might help you understand this with an analogy. To play pool you pretty much need a table, balls and a cue. In the UK they have different rules to the USA. but both are Pool. A person from the UK can't go to the USA and say they are doing it wrong. Now, if they were in a field doing cartwheels and saying 'look, we are playing Pool' then you could say 'no you aren’t' (on the understanding that they both mean the same thing when they say 'Pool') but if they actually play Pool and have different rules, such as naming the ball they will pot each time or not, then no one can tell them they are doing it wrong.

THERE ARE NO RULES. So keep your restricting, conformist opinions to yourself or your own sub group and don't be snarky and try to establish the idea that your opinions are the law of the bdsm world.





Bless your heart...

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Glorify)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:35:14 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders
you're welcome.

*laughs* (in Klingon)


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: HIPOCRICY - 7/9/2012 8:37:56 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

BDSM and Collarme in particular are host to a large number of hypocrites.



Yeah-because all folks are. All of em. Bar none
No-you ain't the exception.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 20
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