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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 11:53:36 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
oh Jeff, i find your responce so disappointing. quite often i like reading your postings even if i don't agree with you. however, your belittling dismissal of other in this thread leaves me shaking my head at you. also, seriously, hiding people whom you may otherwise respect because they don't agree with you on this topic....really? i expected better of you.

Well damnit, I guess I'm not all that good. I'm pretty unrepentant about dismissing this and the person who said it:

Sexualizing the deprecation of a human being from the inside out is morally debatable at its kindest.

That's not an alternate viewpoint. It's willful ignorance driven by fear and insecurity. You'll note I did not dismiss Nueva or even FrostedFlake or ChatteParfaitt or LadyHibiscus or DesFIP or... well... you for that matter.

Insofar as hiding of people, I don't personally attach as much significance to that as other people seem to. I come here to learn and engage in discourse. People who demonstrate a willingness to negate other people's stated reality demonstrate they have no interest in discourse. They want to preach. It isn't my discussion board so I'm fine with them doing so. By the same token, I don't see anything wrong with me tuning out the sermon.


actually i agree with RemoteUser in the contect of the statement. i do think it's an awful thing to do to someone, but that is just my opinion. for what it's worth; RU and i disagreed with each other in another thread, and debated our sides to each other. i don't think either of us changed our view point on the subject, but we both put our points across. i'm not about to block him, or anyone else just because i don't agree with them.

as LaT said, you could also be seen to be doing what you acuse others of doing. i've seen other do it too and all i ever think is that it smacks of throwing the dummy out of the pram. what's to say that you may not enjoy reading further posts from the people you block?

needles

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 11:56:39 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Thank you, Nueva, for your commentary on beauty. I am always well dressed, mani/pedi, hair colur enhanced, because I want to look this way. I rarely wear makeup, unless I want to. For myself. That's not to say that if I know X like strappy sandals, I will wear them and cross my legs just so. But I bought those shoes for *me*.

I was in a relationship where I got told that I was 'not good enough'. I came through that experience with a lot of damage, but also the realization that my sense of self is solid as hell. I am willing to 'change my mind' about ideas, and adopt new perspectives, but change my SELF? No. I would not ask that of another person, either. To obey me is not to be my clone.

Jeff, you really have been out there with the insults lately! Go on with your bad self, you'll be ready for P & R next!

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 12:02:53 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

If, as a dominant, you are interested in removal/reduction of your submissive partners ego, what are the steps you take to remove/lessen the ego of your submissive while allowing them to maintain uniqueness?


I don't want to remove a girl's ego. Rather, I want her sense of self to be intertwined with serving.

And I do that by leading her toward, not by beating her down.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/21/2012 12:03:48 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 1:27:02 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Do I really need to preface my comments with "sane people with healthy egos"? With all these imaginary dragons to slay, I wonder how some people function on a day to day basis . . . seriously, "your" self image was planted their by your environment and most likely in your case by mass media powered by advertizing dollars. Your beauty habits, your concept of self and concept of beauty was probably influenced by your environment.

Think I'm wrong? Go try and get a date where the environment dictates beauty by the amount of brass rings on your neck. We are all ugly skin bags to them. So when you start talking about beauty and self image and you don't have the self awareness to know where it comes from, take a long look at this beauty below and remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, environment relative. You civil bitches are all ugly to her and you are weak minded because your inner beauty was implanted by large advertizing corporations to sell you the products you use. At the worst hers may have been influenced by a brass ring maker.

So when talking about egos and self image, it really helps to understand the topic before arguing silly points out of context with a skewed perspective that are obviously beyond your self comprehension. Some of you guys are being very silly today.





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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 1:34:44 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		You made a comment about women in general and not having a sense of beauty. I'm saying its a false assumption. Your response is to say we are being silly and to post a picture of what I find to be a beautiful (Nubian?) Woman. Okee dokee.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 1:39:56 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Using FR, b/c as far as I know, I don't have a monkey in this brawl.

I think people are talking at cross purposes here (well duh, don't you love these profundities?).

The degree of personal and moral autonomy (I'm not going to say supercede the super ego, b/c I don't necessarily buy into old man Freud) that a dominant takes over is going to vary depending on the individual couple and most often (from what I have seen) is dependent on the amount of micromanaging type control the dominant likes to have.

I'm not sure that Jeff or RS seriously want an robotic doll that spits out Yes, Sir on a minute by minute basis (though I could be wrong).

This is reminding me of the internal enslavement thread. Bad internal enslavement is BAD, good internal enslavement is GOOD. Again with the profundities !!

In that thread we did manage to subsume our egos long enough (I so can't help myself) to try and talk about where that line is.

And yes, I *do* think you have to make it clear that your partners are sane people with healthy egos from your perspective.

When you are talking sane, or healthy ego, it is after all, very much a personal judgement call. So again I have to state, reasons to know your dominant well enough to know for sure that they have good discernment and judgement.


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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:07:33 PM   
ResidentSadist


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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

You made a comment about women in general and not having a sense of beauty. I'm saying its a false assumption. Your response is to say we are being silly and to post a picture of what I find to be a beautiful (Nubian?) Woman. Okee dokee.

Yes, in general, I am talking about the source of your ego. It isn't really a gender specific universal human trait. "Your" image is affected by your media rich advertizing dollars influenced environment. Whereas the chick with the brass rings probably doesn't spend nearly as much time watching cable TV or surfing the internet. I thought the contrasts were clear cut and obvious to my point . . . as in don't be silly, it's more Revlon's image of beauty planted in you than your own ego . . . there is no basic human intrinsic sense of beauty. Beauty is environmentally influenced, even if by Revlon and other cosmetic companies.

So to paint it as clearly as I can, with brass ring barbarian verses civilized makeup painted face, Botox injected silicon titty soccer mom, how can you claim your "inner beauty" your "self image" to be your own when it truly was created by Revlon and other cosmetic companies? . . . and now we go full circle to the question:

How could you, after already giving your self image to the Revlon corporation, think you lost yourself if you gave influence of your self image to a man? When did Revlon become more important than your man? Why would I want a woman that cared more about Revlon than her own man? So brass rings verses Botox verses what your man likes . . . it is almost a moot point, they all influence your self image. How can you be less a person, how can you be so fragile that you loose yourself by seeing the beauty in you reflected in your man's eyes? How does giving the power to make you feel more beautiful make him a monster and make you a fragile victim? It's a power exchange, you should try giving that power up someday and see what happens.

I feel like Jeff capped it: "The one thing which is completely unacceptable in BDSM is dominance and submission"

(No this wasn't all directed at you specifically but it addresses that whole concept you and others pointed out)



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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:23:26 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm.really glad you came back to elabote; thank you for that. I have some thoughts to add but won't have time to revisit this until tomorrow. I'm sure you're holding your breath LOL.

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:30:48 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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quote:

Why would they have to adopt your morals, what is lacking in theirs? Why would their life be non-rewarding outside of your 'investment'?


Not answering for ResidentSadist but for us, the reason I adopt to his morals??? They're better than mine lol. That's WHY he's my Master. He's someone who is just better than me and I like his morals and they really put perspective into my life. Plus he owns me....all of me. I don't pick and choose. There's nothing at all I wouldn't do for him.

My life would be non-rewarding because they would not be for him. I want them to be about him...everything in my life is about him. My investment is in him. That is rewarding to me.

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:37:15 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

if my playmate tried to undo my ego as it is i would find it extremely hurtful. nore could i defer to someone without resenting them if i thought they were wrong. i'd see this as being very damaging to myself, so why would i want to do it to another?


For us, an ego in a slave is not particularly enchanting. My life is devoted to him. If I had an ego it would be like saying "my life is devoted to myself. You don't count. You don't get to have everything". And being he owns every single part of me, he gets that ego too.

Plus I have zero interest in an ego. I find ego to not be very spiritually enlightening Yes, I love Master's ego but he balances it out with sympathy and compassion and love. But for me, I want to be able to move forth in life and death and for me, an ego defeats that. I can't do that with an ego. Again, by having an ego I'm saying it's all about me me me.

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:48:38 PM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		RS not all of us are influenced by media. i'm my own person enough that i am not. i rarely wear makeup because i can't be arsed. i don't follow fashions either. my body has tried to kill me a couple of times, but i'm still here. so, while it may not be the way i'd like it if i had a choice, it is mine and i'm ok with that. it's taken me a hell of a fight to be ok with that. i'm well awear of my flaws, and my assets. the fact that He likes all of me has given me confidence to do things i never would have done before. but therein lays my point; he hasn't had to break me down and rebuild me, he doesn't direct my every thought to be the same as his, he tells me what he thinks of me in a way that i believe. in that i mean that he doesn't have to compliment me, but he does. he reasures me when i doubt. none of that is about me not being ok with myself, but rather wanting him to find me attractive, sexy, lust for me etc because i feel that way about him. if i didn't then i wouldn't care what he thinks. i don't have to adopt any of his thinking at the expence of my own.

i agree with the thought that what 'we' see as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, however, that beauty is not always what we are brought up with. if what you are talking about is a woman seeing herself as you see her beauty so that you encourage the good she already thinks of herself, and make her feel better about the bits she doesn't like so much then great. but the op was talking about a total take over of the ego, which i think is a bad thing. your partner shouldn't HAVE to see the world through your eyes, and mirror your every thought. she should be her own person.

needles

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:53:00 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I'm.really glad you came back to elabote; thank you for that. I have some thoughts to add but won't have time to revisit this until tomorrow. I'm sure you're holding your breath LOL.

Thank you for your persistence. When writing off the cuff, not taking something through a draft and then revisions, it is easy to overlook how your point can be missed by other's perspectives. I should have elaborated my concept of self image/ego being previously influenced by corporate media not your own innate sense of self . . . so at the point of surrender you aren't really giving up yourself, you are giving up Revlon's concept of beauty to see yourself in your lover's eyes. And I am pretty sure Revlon had some previous influence on your lover too . . . unless they come with a lotta' brass rings and lip stretching discs.

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I give good thread.

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:54:20 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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quote:

Go try and get a date where the environment dictates beauty by the amount of brass rings on your neck. We are all ugly skin bags to them. So when you start talking about beauty and self image and you don't have the self awareness to know where it comes from, take a long look at this beauty below and remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, environment relative.


Thank you for this RS and something I need reminding of every once in awhile. Master has plans for me to get some facial tattoos...lips, nose, tongue and at first I was really not wanting to get these done because I find them ugly, but Master likes them and that should be all that counts.

So thank you.

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:58:10 PM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

if my playmate tried to undo my ego as it is i would find it extremely hurtful. nore could i defer to someone without resenting them if i thought they were wrong. i'd see this as being very damaging to myself, so why would i want to do it to another?


For us, an ego in a slave is not particularly enchanting. My life is devoted to him. If I had an ego it would be like saying "my life is devoted to myself. You don't count. You don't get to have everything". And being he owns every single part of me, he gets that ego too.

Plus I have zero interest in an ego. I find ego to not be very spiritually enlightening Yes, I love Master's ego but he balances it out with sympathy and compassion and love. But for me, I want to be able to move forth in life and death and for me, an ego defeats that. I can't do that with an ego. Again, by having an ego I'm saying it's all about me me me.


sorry, but i can't buy that. are you really saying that you never look in mirror to see if you look good and assess yourself? that is ego. even if you want to look good for him you are still judging yourself, which is ego. to have no ego would mean that you have not a single thought of your own unless it's his thought. from the posts i've seen you make i don't believe that for one moment. if Kana was to suddenly disappear for whatever reason would you crumple to nothing without him? i doubt it.

the way you talk there is as if you had no self worth in the first place, or so lacking as a singular person that you have to have someone to think for you. i'm not sure i can buy that either.

needles

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 2:59:55 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I promise I swear that my self image was not created by Revlon. Honestly, Kalon, do you think that we are that shallow? Of course every culture has its own aesthetic, that does not mean that we have to pander to it in order to have self esteem.

Of course I speak from the POV of a dominant, and of course I want to be seen as desirable by a submissive, but that beauty comes from an internal source. Why else would people look at me and say Scars? SURGERY?

It's a lot more than Revlon could ever do.

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 3:04:47 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Actually most days I look in the mirror and I say to myself....would Master like what I'm wearing today? Would he enjoy if I wear this or that? Makeup or no? What does he have planned for us today?". I don't look in the mirror and say "I look ugly or I look hot". I ask myself would HE find me hot today? Because for me, that's all I care about. There are times when I've worn something and he hated it so I immediately removed it from my wardrobe. There are times I fixed my hair in a certain way and he hated it. Never did it again. There are times he comments on how much he loves a hairstyle or piece of clothing and that just makes me smile.

If he suddenly disappeared, I'd be lost, the same way as when my husband died. I died inside also. I'm just STARTING to get my life back together again since I met Master. Before that, I was a wreck inside and out. I could barely cope with life and yeah, I destroyed my entire life and that of my child because I could not cope with life. I wanted to die. I didn't know where to begin or how to start living again. Master has really helped me with that to the point I'm finally after all these years looking forward to life, laughing and smiling again and having fun. My daughter has commented on it. Those who are close to me even notice it. He has inspired me, brought out the best in me, reminded me of how precious life is and how to live it again.

If he disappeared, yeah...I'd probably do the same thing again...not know how to cope. He is that important to me.


< Message edited by littlewonder -- 7/21/2012 3:06:17 PM >

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 3:07:28 PM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

Go try and get a date where the environment dictates beauty by the amount of brass rings on your neck. We are all ugly skin bags to them. So when you start talking about beauty and self image and you don't have the self awareness to know where it comes from, take a long look at this beauty below and remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, environment relative.


Thank you for this RS and something I need reminding of every once in awhile. Master has plans for me to get some facial tattoos...lips, nose, tongue and at first I was really not wanting to get these done because I find them ugly, but Master likes them and that should be all that counts.

So thank you.



see right there, every fiber of me screams WTF! you don't want to do it, but are convincing yourself that you should just for him. what if you two split up? what if he were to pass away? you have to live with something for the rest of your life that someone else asked you to do knowing you don't want to?

the colour of your hair, shaving every other hair on your body, what you wear, your shoes, what you eat etc etc etc i get all that. but an actual physical thing that you can't change without scaring yourself? why? is he going to get rid of you if you say no? if so, sorry Kana but again WTF

there is no way in this life time or any other i would let someone do that to me. and at 40 yrs old i'm certainly wise enough to realise that no matter what you think, relationships of any sort don't always last no matter how great you think you are together.

i'd have no respect, or attraction to anyone who would go so against their own thinking for some frippery that i wanted like a tattoo.

needles

< Message edited by needlesandpins -- 7/21/2012 3:11:34 PM >

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 3:12:09 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
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quote:

what if you two split up? what if he were to pass away? you have to live with something for the rest of your life that someone else asked you to do knowing you don't want to?


I'd still do it.

I don't look at relationships and say "what if we split up? What if he dies?". I don't even concern myself with that. It's like you're already expecting to happen. It's like you want it to happen and you're just waiting for a good time to exit.

Yup, people die. People break up. Had it happen. I worked on coping and trying to pull my life back together again. I have scars that the ex gave me. So what? They're just scars.

And piercings are easy...take them out. They heal lol. I've had piercings before and taken them out. Not a big deal.


If I said no he would say something along the lines of "you have two choices...you can either stay or leave. You knew coming into this relationship that it was all or nothing. You now get to make the choice if you still want that."

This isn't a game for us. It's how we live. It's what we both agreed to. We just see things differently than you.


< Message edited by littlewonder -- 7/21/2012 3:14:20 PM >

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 3:21:17 PM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

what if you two split up? what if he were to pass away? you have to live with something for the rest of your life that someone else asked you to do knowing you don't want to?


I'd still do it.

I don't look at relationships and say "what if we split up? What if he dies?". I don't even concern myself with that. It's like you're already expecting to happen. It's like you want it to happen and you're just waiting for a good time to exit.

Yup, people die. People break up. Had it happen. I worked on coping and trying to pull my life back together again. I have scars that the ex gave me. So what? They're just scars.

And piercings are easy...take them out. They heal lol. I've had piercings before and taken them out. Not a big deal.


If I said no he would say something along the lines of "you have two choices...you can either stay or leave. You knew coming into this relationship that it was all or nothing. You now get to make the choice if you still want that."

This isn't a game for us. It's how we live. It's what we both agreed to. We just see things differently than you.



you said facial tattoos, they can not be taken out at present without scaring. the fact that you don't like them, don't want them is all that should matter to him. it is not an issue that should be pushed if it's known you don't like it. that then becomes a massive ugly ego on his part.

you have me torn here littlewonder, for sure. on one hand it think it's good that you have someone in your life, but on the other if pushed to such extremes....and with the way you talk above....i'm sat here pitying you. i know you don't want my pity, but as a very independent person myself who does things for myself, because i don't want to rely on someone else for everything, then pity it is.

needles

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RE: Leggo my ego*! - 7/21/2012 3:24:31 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I have scars everywhere! What's a few more? LOL. If I can get rid of breast reduction scars with Mederma, I'm not that worried about them on my face. I already have scars on my face from eczema I had as a child. Big whoop.


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