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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 4:37:55 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

~I haven't forgotten those people, Aswad.


Never meant to imply anyone had. Sorry if I came across that way.

Here is what I meant to say, more explicitly this time around:

I know how unreal this seems. What kind of thoughts and emotions are going through the heads of people in Colorado right now. The things you'll find yourselves wondering for a long time. The tears and the anger and the rumination. It is sad. Tragic. Unjust. And it will never fully heal for many. I can't know how those that lost someone in this event feel. I can take a guess, though. I've been finding myself taking those guesses for a year, myself. Wondering what thoughts go through the heads of those that died in their last moments. What goes through the heads of the survivors and those that have lost someone dear to them. Even those that 'merely' happened to be coworkers, or otherwise in an incidental fashion touched. Those who go to the bar and find a new face bringing their glass and only then realize that "shit, that was Sullivan." or the patients that get a form letter telling them their appointments have been rescheduled and go "Teves... why?"

And I would like to reach out to hug all these people, but I can't

So I'm hugging you guys instead.

S'all.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 4:40:45 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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You didn't come across that way at all! I just wanted to say that this new tragedy doesn't replace any of the others. Though I don't feel a personal attachment to any of the events, I am appalled at how the victims' lives were trivialized in the name of someone's need for recognition. And very aware that this could have happened to any of us.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 5:23:18 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Certainly crazy, Steve, but this was entirely too planned to meet the batshit standard.



Perfectly planned batshit crazy pretty much describes most of the villians in the Batman oeuvre.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 7:35:09 PM   
samdarella


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So very sad and senseless. Thank you for taking the time to honor those people affected. Not just the ones that were shot and their families, but everyone that was there has had their life forever altered. I have been selfish in my happiness that I didnt want to shed tears for strangers. But now let each tear be a reminder to live every day to the fullest. Never miss an opportunity to tell loved ones how special they are. Because every day one of us goes to the movies, to a restaurant, to the store. And you just never know.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 10:45:40 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

You didn't come across that way at all!


Sorry for the misunderstanding. I just know I can seem very cold about such things at times.

quote:

Though I don't feel a personal attachment to any of the events, I am appalled at how the victims' lives were trivialized in the name of someone's need for recognition. And very aware that this could have happened to any of us.


Yeah...

One can't help but think about it sometimes.

Like the woman who died while the guy was trying to help her. The first thought goes out to Jessica Ghawi herself. A bullet to the leg hurts like hell and you're scared out of your wits and people are panicking all around, and then that's it. She gets shot through the head. End of story. And eventually you put that thought down. But then you start thinking about what went through Brent's head when he realized his efforts had been for nothing, when realized she'd stopped screaming and he saw she had been killed. And what will go through his head in the future. Will he wonder if he should have just held her instead, comforting her in what it turned out would be her last moments? Will he wonder if cradling her would have let his body shield her from the fatal bullet? How's he going to deal with reading about it, seeing it on the news, catching the trial, living with people that recognize him from seeing him on the news and only know that one thing about him: that he was the guy who tried to save his girlfriend while shot in the leg, and then lost her?

Or, from up here, the girl that was shot through the hands while covering her face. You go away to that mind's eye space and start to picture it. It is a fairly normal human response to cover the face during an attack, or while pleading with an attacker. It would've been a sensible response back in the day when predators had claws and went for the throat. Instead, a bullet tears through those hands, through her jaw and out the other side. Shock and fear and then a bullet to the chest. Lying there under a corpse, hearing the others, seeing the attacker walking around to put an extra round in everyone's head at point blank, wondering when it's going to be your turn. Waiting for it. And waiting. And waiting. Unable to move, seeing a nearby cell phone ringing, the display saying "Mom". Knowing the person whose phone it is, having seen them die already. And then somebody calling out "we've got a live one over here!"

Then the mind drifts to the people that find them. Whether here, there or any other such tragedy.

The police, stepping over both corpses and people alike, making sure there's not a second shooter around. Then going back for the living and the possibly living that aren't moving. Nurses, doctors, paramedics, all chomping at the bit to get in. Then being faced with a warzone. The intense effort and hours of working to save people, lives in the balance with everything you do. And then, when crazy hour is over, and everyone goes home: the sudden emptiness inside, the vacuum that craves something to fill it, that leads to unpleasant thoughts. You know you have to sleep, or you'll collapse and be no good to anyone. Try to put aside the blood and gore, the staring eyes, the empty faces, the screams, the crying, and the ones not making a sound. Every moment you spend on being a human may be a moment you're not resting, meaning another moment you're not helping. And you still can't make it stop. Can't put it down. Or maybe you can, and you start wondering what that says about you. And then the days, weeks and months to come, thinking about it and your part in it.

Or those that have to clean out such a site afterwards. Picking up bits and pieces of real people, sorting them into bags, labelling, documenting. Trying to make sure one of the bereaved isn't going to walk in there some time in the future and find a part of their loved ones because you missed a spot. Like up here, where a family found part of their daughter's jaw. The only bone fragment not recovered from an island of a million square feet of forest, and it was stumbled across by the worst possible people to find it on their first visit to the site. That sort of thing is going to go through the heads of everyone clearing out that cinema. And at the same time, they know it's crucial to make sure all the evidence is in order, so they have to do it by hand, in painstaking detail.

I'm obviously not touching on a fraction of the thoughts that can surface, even those concerning the thing itself. It can be painful to think about such things. Takes time to process. Some are more deeply affected than others, or need more time to do so. Some aren't touched at all. But my experience from what happened up here is, a lot of people needed to talk for weeks to months afterwards. And I do think it would be a good thing for people to share their thoughts here, on this thread. Therapeutic. Cathartic. A place where people know you well enough to share, but not so well that it becomes difficult to.

I may be way off, but I think that would be in line with what LP had in mind.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 11:32:20 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Thank you, Aswad.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/22/2012 11:34:25 PM   
GreedyTop


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as always, an incredible post, Aswad. Thank you.

(warmest regards to you and yours)

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 12:14:25 AM   
Thaz


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Condolences and much love to all impacted by this.

I spent best part of a year 'studying' at Colarado U, it always makes you think when you've walked the streets.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 7:19:34 AM   
kalikshama


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My USAF tech school was at the former Lowry AFB in Aurora. I have many fond memories of CO.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 7:32:41 AM   
OsideGirl


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I honestly think that when something like this happens, that they should just shut off the flow to the media.

Don't release the shooters name. Don't release his photos. Don't cover it over and over and pick it apart to fill the media slots. So, far on the news this morning they've had 6 different experts talking about him.

This guy wanted to be a famous villain. The media has given it to him.

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 7:40:28 AM   
GreedyTop


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I SO agree, Oside...

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 7:43:23 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I honestly think that when something like this happens, that they should just shut off the flow to the media.

Don't release the shooters name. Don't release his photos. Don't cover it over and over and pick it apart to fill the media slots. So, far on the news this morning they've had 6 different experts talking about him.

This guy wanted to be a famous villain. The media has given it to him.


^^^ THIS ^^^

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 7:43:32 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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Seeing their faces made me cry.

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yep

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 8:41:16 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I honestly think that when something like this happens, that they should just shut off the flow to the media.

Don't release the shooters name. Don't release his photos. Don't cover it over and over and pick it apart to fill the media slots. So, far on the news this morning they've had 6 different experts talking about him.

This guy wanted to be a famous villain. The media has given it to him.


Well, you'll be glad to know then that the infamous Westboro Baptist Church planned to protest the memorial service and I cannot for the life of me find out whether they did. Looks like a media blackout there.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 8:52:41 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I honestly think that when something like this happens, that they should just shut off the flow to the media.

Don't release the shooters name. Don't release his photos. Don't cover it over and over and pick it apart to fill the media slots. So, far on the news this morning they've had 6 different experts talking about him.

This guy wanted to be a famous villain. The media has given it to him.


Well, you'll be glad to know then that the infamous Westboro Baptist Church planned to protest the memorial service and I cannot for the life of me find out whether they did. Looks like a media blackout there.

You are the second person to bring up Westboro Baptist in connection to this tragedy.
Can't recall.for the life of me,who was first,or in what context

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 2:00:47 PM   
angelikaJ


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Good discussion here:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/383117

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RE: Tragedy In Colorado - 7/23/2012 9:10:01 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I honestly think that when something like this happens, that they should just shut off the flow to the media. [...] This guy wanted to be a famous villain. The media has given it to him.


I shall address this while attempting to be mindful of the purpose of this thread.

When such a thing happens, it is in the interest of healing to be able to face the cause of such a tragedy.

My own country actually immersed itself completely in the aftermath of the 22/7 massacre on Utøya and in Oslo. The newspapers even went so far as to provide two versions of their online editions, depending on whether people found it better to participate in this, or withdraw from it, something you might want to suggest to your own papers. A live coverage archive of the 44 days long trial is still available online, with court transcripts. This was not because we sought to give Anders Behring Breivik a lot of fame and glory (particularly given his narcissistic streak), but because we sought to allow those that are helped in processing their grief by understanding to heal better, to understand the causes such that we all can be part of changing the currents in society that can give rise to such things, and various other reasons. Given the purpose of this thread, I would add that it leaves less potential for unanswered questions later. If you don't uncover everything, you can't go back, particularly if he receives the death penalty. And answers can be useful to many in healing.

Like it or not, this is news. News are important things, and often horrible things. When they're closer, they hit us harder. But they are still news.

The coverage follows from this. And, of course, in a free market you can't stop covering it so long as people want to hear about it. Free markets are a race. The people effectively decide, and while few will boycott a newspaper for covering something they don't want to read, many will explicitly pick up the newspapers that do interest them. While the press will often attempt to show some restraint, it's going to be a race anyway, and some will no doubt give in to the temptation to cover any tittilating detail they can come across. That, certainly, is a problematic outcome, and the rest of us will want to be sensitive to the affected on this point. In the ultimate analysis, though, a free press cannot be readily shackled, and no one authority should say what should be blacked out and what should not.

So coverage will happen, and it's important for each of us not to take in too much.

Ignore him. But don't ignore what happened. That's my advice. In the massacre up here, I had conscientious reasons for taking in all of it, probably more than I should have (which I may share at some point). What I did find of relevance to this topic and to the purpose of this thread, is that the perpetrator was a singularily ordinary and uninteresting man. I found that many of his victims and survivors had been far more colorful and interesting individuals. The stories of the survivors would, in moderation, have been of great use in processing what happened. And throughout it all, never once did the perpetrator hold my attention. He just wasn't all that interesting. His deeds were, to some extent, and what the process laid bare of my country, good and bad. But not the man. And he was just a man. He wasn't some demon to merit the reverence and empowerment implied in the exceptional measure of a blackout. We are simply stronger than that, I think. Too strong to need to shy away from him, as if he were something special and potent that we cannot handle. He's just a man, and I can handle a man.

And I can forget a man.

Insofar as I take any part in his punishment, that will be it. He was ultimately forgettable. His deeds may not fade for a long time, and probably never for those touched by them, but he is fading from memory himself already. I couldn't really say for sure, of course, but despite studying his microexpressions in court (which requires focusing on the face), I doubt I'll remember that face at all a decade from now, let alone anything about who he was. People seek fame for attention and for being remembered. I never paid much attention to him. And I won't remember him. Not the man. To the ancient Egyptians, that was in many ways worse than death: to be forgotten. Which he will be, once the nation has dealt with his crimes and their consequences. At least by me.

Thus, I consign him to oblivion. I suggest you do the same.

Take what you need from him, and let the rest go.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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