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2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:07:05 PM

JstAnotherSub

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A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

221 years later, weapons are available that the men who wrote the Bill of Rights could not foresee.

100 years from now, who knows what kind of weaponry may be available, that could be used by an individual to harm other human beings.

I am a firm believer in the "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" train of though.

But...

As tragedies such as the one in Colorado become more common, I begin to wonder if there does, in fact, need to be a line drawn, regarding the types of weapons that can be purchased legally.

I do believe that if the men who wrote the Bill of Rights were alive today, they would be the first ones to try to make changes that could stop mass killings like the one that just happened.

I also know that I would be unwilling to give up the three weapons I own, because, while I have never had to even draw one on somebody, knowing I have them to protect my home and well being makes me feel a little bit safer in this insane world.

So, is there any way to address the insanity that is taking over our culture, while we keep the freedom to protect our selves? Or, do we just have to continue to accept the bad, in order to hold on to the good?

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RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:21:49 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

As tragedies such as the one in Colorado become more common, .

It would appear that you would rather listen to the tv to find out how violent a world you live in rather than consulting the fbi crime stats.

quote:

So, is there any way to address the insanity that is taking over our culture,

Have you any data to indicate that violence is any more pronounced today than at some other time in the history of the u.s?

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 2

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:36:12 PM

LadyHibiscus

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I am not a fearful or paranoid person. There are actually two unregistered handguns in the house, locked away somewhere in the basement, souvenirs of my dad's past. They haven't been fired in decades, nor will they be. One's a cowboy gun from the 1870's, so I guess it's one of those 'collector' guns.

As a person who was taught gun safety, I know that most homeowners are not sufficiently trained to use firearms. Shooting takes PRACTICE, and shooting at a human? A whole other world. It's fear play, though, isn't it, a giant game of chicken, a cold steel security blanket.

I laugh whenever anyone brings up the bill of rights. Didnt we give that stuff up when the Patriot Act was signed? No? It feels like it, every time I go to get on a commercial aircraft. We really don't have to show ID to get on an aircraft, it's one of those 'rights' we have, to travel freely. Tell it to the TSA. We inch closer to being a police state every week, and people ARE afraid of their government.

THAT is why the 2nd Amendment was written, to protect the people from a government that might turn against them. A reasonable fear.

Fifty one sets of gun laws. That's a lot of options for acquiring mayhem, and that's presuming you go about it legally. Is it even feasible to produce a set of national guidelines? What federal trinket would it have to be tied to, in order to make it work? Take X off the market or we won't...fund your schools? Your unemployment program?

I don't see it happening, even in the smallest way. The gun lobbies will make sure of it, fear will make sure of it.

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RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:45:28 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

221 years later, weapons are available that the men who wrote the Bill of Rights could not foresee.

100 years from now, who knows what kind of weaponry may be available, that could be used by an individual to harm other human beings.

I am a firm believer in the "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" train of though.

But...

As tragedies such as the one in Colorado become more common, I begin to wonder if there does, in fact, need to be a line drawn, regarding the types of weapons that can be purchased legally.

I do believe that if the men who wrote the Bill of Rights were alive today, they would be the first ones to try to make changes that could stop mass killings like the one that just happened.

I also know that I would be unwilling to give up the three weapons I own, because, while I have never had to even draw one on somebody, knowing I have them to protect my home and well being makes me feel a little bit safer in this insane world.

So, is there any way to address the insanity that is taking over our culture, while we keep the freedom to protect our selves? Or, do we just have to continue to accept the bad, in order to hold on to the good?

In spite of protestations to the contrary I can't help but there was pleanty of evidence to have prevented this if any of several people had done their jobs. His mothers first response was you have the right man. Can you imagine how much evidence of his violent inclinations had to be present for his mother to say that? Someone had to have seen what he was before this. Someone should have gotten him treated and helped. Address the evil not the tool.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 4

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:47:22 PM

LadyHibiscus

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Evil or not, do you think that military level ordnance is a 2nd amendment 'right'?

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Post #: 5

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:53:56 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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2nd Amendment!!! By DAMN!!!!

(I'll have an opinion on this later....and it's gonna be a motherfucker!!!!)

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Post #: 6

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 6:59:28 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am not a fearful or paranoid person. There are actually two unregistered handguns in the house, locked away somewhere in the basement, souvenirs of my dad's past. They haven't been fired in decades, nor will they be. One's a cowboy gun from the 1870's, so I guess it's one of those 'collector' guns.

As a person who was taught gun safety, I know that most homeowners are not sufficiently trained to use firearms. Shooting takes PRACTICE, and shooting at a human? A whole other world. It's fear play, though, isn't it, a giant game of chicken, a cold steel security blanket.

I laugh whenever anyone brings up the bill of rights. Didnt we give that stuff up when the Patriot Act was signed? No? It feels like it, every time I go to get on a commercial aircraft. We really don't have to show ID to get on an aircraft, it's one of those 'rights' we have, to travel freely. Tell it to the TSA. We inch closer to being a police state every week, and people ARE afraid of their government.

THAT is why the 2nd Amendment was written, to protect the people from a government that might turn against them. A reasonable fear.

Fifty one sets of gun laws. That's a lot of options for acquiring mayhem, and that's presuming you go about it legally. Is it even feasible to produce a set of national guidelines? What federal trinket would it have to be tied to, in order to make it work? Take X off the market or we won't...fund your schools? Your unemployment program?

I don't see it happening, even in the smallest way. The gun lobbies will make sure of it, fear will make sure of it.

Hon....this ain't your Dad's time, and you ain't living in corn country.

Fire those guns, learn how to use them, and get some ammo.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 7

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:27:33 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Evil or not, do you think that military level ordnance is a 2nd amendment 'right'?

That was the intent. The problem is not the weapon, it is the use to which they are put. Should we ban fertilizer because of OK City? of course not.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 8

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:35:32 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

Considering that in most states a .50 cal sniper rifle is legal to own, I like the second amendment as it is.

I may point out that there is a ban on certain assault weapons being imported. I am presently in the market for a Dragunov and very few people that own them want to sell what they have and according to the US government, they are illegal to import.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Post #: 9

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:36:09 PM

LadyHibiscus

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JJ, my family are recent immigrants to this country. My dad's house was used as an SS field station during the war. (WWII, the big one ) Their town is midway between Anzio and Montecassino. Ask my dad about a war fought in your fucking backyard.

That said... what are WE protecting ourselves against? Crazy people? Can't be done. Burglars in the night? Sure. As if I can get to a firearm, suddenly awakened by someone *who is armed already* and get a clean shot. Wait, let me put my glasses on.

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RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:36:13 PM

Lucylastic

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what good is 6000 rounds of ammo outside of a gun, unless you make "necklaces"

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RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:37:11 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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Lucy, with the right licenses, you too can own a 6000 round per minute mini gun.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 12

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:43:40 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

JJ, my family are recent immigrants to this country. My dad's house was used as an SS field station during the war. (WWII, the big one ) Their town is midway between Anzio and Montecassino. Ask my dad about a war fought in your fucking backyard.

That said... what are WE protecting ourselves against? Crazy people? Can't be done. Burglars in the night? Sure. As if I can get to a firearm, suddenly awakened by someone *who is armed already* and get a clean shot. Wait, let me put my glasses on.

Ok.

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Post #: 13

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:54:07 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Considering that in most states a .50 cal sniper rifle is legal to own, I like the second amendment as it is.

I may point out that there is a ban on certain assault weapons being imported. I am presently in the market for a Dragunov and very few people that own them want to sell what they have and according to the US government, they are illegal to import.

I have no idea what that is.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 14

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:56:03 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lucy, with the right licenses, you too can own a 6000 round per minute mini gun.

Why would I want one??

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 15

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 7:57:34 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

what good is 6000 rounds of ammo outside of a gun, unless you make "necklaces"

I know a guy who collects guns and likes to be able to shoot anything he collects.
Last time we counted he had over 100,000 rounds some for guns that he had sold or traded years before.
Do you need every pair of shoes you own I mean you can only wear one pair at a time, same thing( before you say it a stelletto heel is named after a knife with good reason)

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/21/2012 8:01:30 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 8:04:13 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lucy, with the right licenses, you too can own a 6000 round per minute mini gun.

Why would I want one??

I would prefer a Gatling gun piece of history, shoots big bullets as fas as you can turn the crank and License you don't need no stinkin license

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 17

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 8:07:16 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
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From: United States
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Like you can count that high....I'm calling bullshit on that basis alone.

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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Post #: 18

RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 8:07:35 PM

OttersSwim

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It's pretty likely that if stricter gun control laws were in place, he might not have killed and wounded as many people...but in my view our country would be a very different place. The right to own and use guns is woven into our fabric from the very founding of the nation, the ability of the people to defy their government should it become tyrannical, implicit.

However, if there is a cost to our particular brand of freedom, this is certainly part of it.

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RE: 2nd amendment - 7/21/2012 8:08:00 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Evil or not, do you think that military level ordnance is a 2nd amendment 'right'?

I'm a veteran and am firmly opposed to the idea of civilians having military grade weapons. I support the statements below.

The Second Amendment Demands Gun Control

02/4/11

The Second Amendment supports those of us who would control guns -- and thus prevent the insane slaughter that compromises our security.

James Madison and the Founders of this nation would be enraged to see the Second Amendment being used to put guns in the hands of the Tucson shooter and so many others like him.

The debate over the violent hatespeak of Sarah "Lock & Load" Palin and her Foxist ilk is long overdue.

But so is a careful national reawakening to what the Second Amendment actually says:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Of the first Ten Amendments, this is the only one that contains a rationale for what it requires.

The Bill of Rights is the law of the land, clearly stated. Guarantees of religion, speech, assembly, the press, freedom from torture and so much more are natural rights, inherent to the human condition.

But the right to bear arms is granted only in the context of a well-regulated militia and thus the security of a free state.

A National Guard, yes. Heavily-armed lunatics roaming the streets unregulated... never!

Lawyers and the courts have been fighting over guns for 220 years, since that great day in 1791 when this magnificent document was ratified. The essence of the Founders' intent was embodied in the Supreme Court's 1939 Miller decision, the prevailing judicial view until the recent coming of a hard right NRA-based court very much out of synch with the sane balance our nation has tried to maintain between gun rights and the public good.

As we've just seen in Tucson, these faux "conservatives" have allowed renegade ownership of rapid-firing instruments of wholesale slaughter.

This imbalance clearly threatens "the security of a free state." The Second Amendment says access to these weapons must be strictly regulated.

As a free and lawful people, we have the legal duty to end this unconstitutional madness.

Make no mistake: this murder and mayhem has been made possible by the claim to a Constitutional right that is not there.

The assassins and mass murderers who continue to threaten our national security make ever so clear the reason for the Founders' demand that gun ownership be regulated.

These are dark times for those who demand sane regulation of gun ownership. But courts come and go. Public opinion and political power, like the common law, change and evolve. These murders in Tucson -- just the latest in a long, horrifying, thoroughly avoidable procession of senseless, gun-inflicted tragedies -- underscore once again that this is a struggle we can never abandon.

And in continuing to do this work, gun control advocates must not cede a legal inch. We are the ones with the real "Second Amendment remedy" -- the clear Constitutional demand for a "regulated" gun ownership that serves rather than destroys the "security of a free state."

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