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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 8:44:00 PM

kdsub

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Mike I can’t agree with you… what about the players who did not go on to the NFL but cannot even look back with pride on their accomplishments...what the hell did they have to do with child molestation?

Do you think any educational institution public or not can loose 60 million without an affect on the quality of education...the NCAA should stick to only sports and let the police and lawyers take care of the rest.

Tuitions are not tax money as far as I know...money does not grow on trees in Pennsylvania. They cannot loose that kind of money AND fund new NCAA mandated programs without serious repercussions on the students.

Transferring to another school is not a sure thing…they may not get the same scholarship if one at all…there could be years of tradition lost…hell they may not be able to afford going out of state.

The Football Program is not despicable and committed NO crime…people did and deserve to be punished but this NCAA as usual punishes the wrong people.

Tell me does this punish Paterno?
Does this punish Sandusky?
Does this punish Spanier?
Does this punish anyone directly and solely responsible for these atrocities?

No...not a one… just the students of Penn State…so what damn sense does it make?

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/24/2012 8:48:35 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 21

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:00:18 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
what damn sense does it make?

Perfect sense, Butch. The crimes were institutional, the punishment needs to be as well. This is "head on a spike," shit, and dealing with it is going to splatter.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 22

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:01:23 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike I can’t agree with you… what about the players who did not go on to the NFL but cannot even look back with pride on their accomplishments...what the hell did they have to do with child molestation?

Do you think any educational institution public or not can loose 60 million without an affect on the quality of education...the NCAA should stick to only sports and let the police and lawyers take care of the rest.

Tuitions are not tax money as far as I know...money does not grow on trees in Pennsylvania. They cannot loose that kind of money AND fund new NCAA mandated programs without serious repercussions on the students.

Transferring to another school is not a sure thing…they may not get the same scholarship if one at all…there could be years of tradition lost…hell they may not be able to afford going out of state.

The Football Program is not despicable and committed NO crime…people did and deserve to be punished but this NCAA as usual punishes the wrong people.

Tell me does this punish Paterno?
Does this punish Sandusky?
Does this punish Spanier?
Does this punish anyone directly and solely responsible for these atrocities?

No...not a one… just the students of Penn State…so what damn sense does it make?

The despicable acts were all(save for Sandusky's crimes)done in furtherance of that same football program.Any imposition,any "loss" suffered by ex players pales in comparison to the hell those children went thru.
I'm sorry,the NCAA has jurisdiction of the entity known as Penn State Nittany Lion Football,that entity has an organizational quilt and must pay,and more importantly be seen to pay for the crimes commited at the alter of that program.
End of story,sorry Butch you will get no traction from me on this,the scars inflicted on those children will be theirs to carry till the day they die....
Take emotion out of it,just compare it to USC....if the Trojan program can suffer sanctions for the Bush mess,how can the Lions dance past this ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 23

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:04:33 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Tell me does this punish Paterno?
Does this punish Sandusky?
Does this punish Spanier?
Does this punish anyone directly and solely responsible for these atrocities?

No...not a one… just the students of Penn State…so what damn sense does it make?

Any time an athletic program gets sanctions, it punishes innocent people.

Think about the poor cheerleaders and marching band members who won't get to go to a bowl game.

Tough shit. I thought college was about going to class and getting a fucking degree.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 24

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:11:21 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Mike how did the playing of football have anything to do with those poor children? You did not answer my question...did the NCAA punish anyone directly responsible for these atrocities?

Remember this is a public school not in education for profit…these sanctions are hurting not only the school…students…but the people of Pennsylvania.

I will not try to change your mind...I understand and respect your opinion...I just think you are mistaken and I really feel for all the innocents...not just the children...the students as well…hell they are still children as well.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/24/2012 9:18:23 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 25

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:12:56 PM

Endivius

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Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline

See there is your problem right there. You keep trying to marginalize two completely seperate acts that are in no way related. More importantly, you are missing the core meat of the problem. In the case with Reggie, he and the coaching staff directly benefited from the illegal activities. That is NOT the case with Penn State. The only people that benefited from the cover up were sandusky, the administration who went along with the cover up to increase doner funds and JoePa. The students and the athletes at penn state had no knowledge and in no way participated in the scandal involved. What you are missing here, is that in the case of USC, a player was involved. A person ON THE FIELD. The Penn State scandal is about one pedophile being protected by a coach chasing greatness and the administration pandering to that chase for the benefit of prestiege and doner money. I'm fine with the financial sanctions and everything that went along with it. What I'm not fine with is the choice to vacate the wins. It makes no sense and there isn't ANY argument you could come up with that would justify punishing the students and atheletes for something that went on at an administrative level. You are trying to justify what the victims of the abuse went through to make it acceptable to punish yet more innocent people because, and that doesn't fly with me. You don't get to say, "oh the poor innocent victims" on one hand, and then use the other to slap the shit out of some more innocents.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

_____________________________

Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 26

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:20:43 PM

Hillwilliam

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Endivus. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the vacated wins were a shot directly at Paterno. He was the winningest coach in DI history. Now he isnt. Any player that won a championship ring can still wear it. The players know who they beat and who they didn't but the name "Paterno" is stricken from the record books. He's really the only one truly affected by that.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Endivius)

Post #: 27

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:24:10 PM

Endivius

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Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline

Tell that to the players, I'm sure they share your sentiment.

_____________________________

Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 28

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:33:11 PM

Hillwilliam

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Joined: 8/27/2008
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As I said in an earlier post. "I thought college was about going to class and getting a fucking degree."

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Endivius)

Post #: 29

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:38:01 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike how did the playing of football have anything to do with those poor children? You did not answer my question...did the NCAA punish anyone directly responsible for these atrocities?

Remember this is a public school not in education for profit…these sanctions are hurting not only the school…students…but the people of Pennsylvania.

I will not try to change your mind...I understand and respect your opinion...I just think you are mistaken and I really feel for all the innocents...not just the children...the students as well…hell they are still children as well.

Butch

How are you not seeing that you are making my point.
"the school...students...but the people of Pennsylvania"
Do you thing it was thinking like that,concerns along those same lines that led the leadership of that program to turn a blind and inactive eye to a sexual predator of children in their midst !
Seriously,listen to yourself,these are the same arguments Paterno and co.used to rationalize their infamous failure of responsibility.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 30

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/24/2012 9:41:36 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

I just don't get it,children were sacrificed in order to not sully the reputation of a fucking football program....and you don't see how that football program itself should take a hit....
Butch,I do usually respect your opinion and the arguments you make in furthering it,I don't always agree....but I can usually "see" where you are coming from
This.....nope,can't see it and I'm sorry to say I can't respect the sense of prioritythat see's this as an unfair punishment.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 31

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 3:57:21 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Not to mention, it's a valuable life lesson.

Cuz yanno, if I fuck up, it's usually not just me that pays the consequences. Shit has a ripple effect. It teaches those young people that not only do they have to be responsible for themself, for themself, but for others also.

Sucks to be them and learn that their glorious alma mater isn't all they thought it was, but that's life.

Besides, as far as I know, they didn't revoke any degrees. Yanno, that stuff you are SUPPOSED to be going to college for!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 32

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 4:14:49 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

Personally, since the NCAA is trumpeting the concept in their whitewash, I like the idea of the punishment truly fitting the crime.
So, since Paterno etal decided in 98 to cover up Sandusky and create a free rape zone that they could keep the cash flowing, I think Penn State should have been fined every dollar the football program has made since 98...and the cash given to the victims.
That would have been about just.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 33

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 4:36:54 AM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Agreed.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 34

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 6:49:47 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Do you thing it was thinking like that,concerns along those same lines that led the leadership of that program to turn a blind and inactive eye to a sexual predator of children in their midst !

No...Oklahoma...Alabama...LSU...Ohio....Nebraska...Florida...on an on all think the same way about their students and football programs and they manage it without harboring child molesters. It is people breaking the law and turning a blind eye not the football programs or the students of the educational institutions who are to blame.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 35

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 7:46:14 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

See there is your problem right there. You keep trying to marginalize two completely seperate acts that are in no way related. More importantly, you are missing the core meat of the problem. In the case with Reggie, he and the coaching staff directly benefited from the illegal activities. That is NOT the case with Penn State. The only people that benefited from the cover up were sandusky, the administration who went along with the cover up to increase doner funds and JoePa. The students and the athletes at penn state had no knowledge and in no way participated in the scandal involved. What you are missing here, is that in the case of USC, a player was involved. A person ON THE FIELD. The Penn State scandal is about one pedophile being protected by a coach chasing greatness and the administration pandering to that chase for the benefit of prestiege and doner money. I'm fine with the financial sanctions and everything that went along with it. What I'm not fine with is the choice to vacate the wins. It makes no sense and there isn't ANY argument you could come up with that would justify punishing the students and atheletes for something that went on at an administrative level. You are trying to justify what the victims of the abuse went through to make it acceptable to punish yet more innocent people because, and that doesn't fly with me. You don't get to say, "oh the poor innocent victims" on one hand, and then use the other to slap the shit out of some more innocents.

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Bolded for truth.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Endivius)

Post #: 36

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 7:50:29 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Again I have to stress........no scholastic achievements were taken away. No student or prior student lost a degree.

College is for EDUCATION.

College football is and should be, an extra curricular activity that makes money for the college.

If a student is only at Penn state for the football........too fucking bad.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 37

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 10:59:52 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

College football is and should be, an extra curricular activity that makes money for the college

And in a public educational institution that money goes where?...It goes to providing a better education for the whole...not just football players... That money will have to be made up somewhere else at the expense of innocents.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 38

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 2:28:52 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

College football is and should be, an extra curricular activity that makes money for the college

And in a public educational institution that money goes where?...It goes to providing a better education for the whole...not just football players... That money will have to be made up somewhere else at the expense of innocents.

Butch

No, it doesn't. Most programs don't even claim it pays for the so called "nonrevenue" sports,most of which were cut over the years despite the buckets of cash the minor league football team on campus brings in.

The revenue pays for football and more football. Bigger and better training facilities. More recruiting farther afield. Higher coaches salaries, Paterno was the highest paid public employee not just at Penn St. but in the entire state of PA.

After the 2009-2010 season a report came out that showed of the 120 football bowl division schools only 22 had revenue sufficient to cover their own expenses. The rest, 98, were a drain on the parent university.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/06/22_college_football_programs_m.html

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 39

RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 6:56:07 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

As I said in an earlier post. "I thought college was about going to class and getting a fucking degree."

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-- Attributed to Mark Twain

I went to class (most days) and did indeed score a degree, but I learned at least as much outside the classroom as I did inside. I continue, moreover, to learn from the amazing friends I met, long after the details of, say, sylph imagery in Pope or Latin American land reforms faded away.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 40

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