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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/25/2012 7:09:22 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

I understand the need for sanctions, but as a history student, I was perturbed by the effort to rewrite the past. It struck me as Orwellian, and I was gratified to read in today's New York Times that I wasn't alone in that reaction: George Orwell and the N.C.A.A.

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 5:42:39 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

I understand the need for sanctions, but as a history student, I was perturbed by the effort to rewrite the past. It struck me as Orwellian, and I was gratified to read in today's New York Times that I wasn't alone in that reaction: George Orwell and the N.C.A.A.

I think they did that to smack Paterno out of the record books.
They did the same thing to smack Bowden back when he was the overall leader and literally hand it to Paterno. The interesting thing is that Bowden's wins were vacated for an academic scandal which hurt absolutely noone outside the program.
The fact that so many people are crying about "Poor Joe's Legacy" when it is obvious that he was covering up and therefore abetting the RAPE OF CHILDREN is very telling.

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 6:18:04 AM   
Kana


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quote:

I think they did that to smack Paterno out of the record books.


Of course.

quote:

They did the same thing to smack Bowden back when he was the overall leader and literally hand it to Paterno. The interesting thing is that Bowden's wins were vacated for an academic scandal which hurt absolutely noone outside the program.


Even the NCAA has a hard limit-whudda thunk it? I thought they were no limits all the way
(Purely as a side note, I have a buddy who attended the PSU/OSU game two years ago, a game that due to cheating and penalties, not one but both schools have voided. Now he's left having watched a game that as far as the NCAA is concerned, never occurred-very Twilight Zonish)

quote:

The fact that so many people are crying about "Poor Joe's Legacy" when it is obvious that he was covering up and therefore abetting the RAPE OF CHILDREN is very telling.


Of course it's telling. It tells us that these folks care more about the cash cow that is the football program than the lives of the poorest most vulnerable kids in the community. PSU willingly, knowingly and intentionally sacrificed the kids to protect the golden calf and these folks are doing the same.
It tells us that folks have their values completely out of whack, and that their vast over valuation of football over basic human decency is utterly reprehensible.
It speaks volumes re their moral vacuity...and don't cry to me about the "innocent kids" suffering at PSU because nobody at PSU gave a shit while real innocent kids were having their childhood's ripped away by a serial rapist.

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 7:13:05 AM   
LaTigresse


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Exactly and the only reason they are showing mock outrage now is to try and save face for PSU.

A smart person is going to see it for what it is..........shutting the barn door after all the horses have gotten out. All too many dumb suckers are going to believe it and buy into their remorseful (ha) routine.

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 9:02:47 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I think they did that to smack Paterno out of the record books.


That's my sense too.

quote:

They did the same thing to smack Bowden back when he was the overall leader and literally hand it to Paterno. The interesting thing is that Bowden's wins were vacated for an academic scandal which hurt absolutely noone outside the program.


Thanks for the info, Hill. I didn't realize they'd done this before.

quote:

The fact that so many people are crying about "Poor Joe's Legacy" when it is obvious that he was covering up and therefore abetting the RAPE OF CHILDREN is very telling.


I'm not crying over Paterno's legacy. I'm all for taking down the statue, renaming things, etc. (And I'd hope that folks would learn from this not to immortalize people until a decade or so after their deaths, when we've had time to gain some perspective.) I just find rewriting history--like it or not, Penn State won the games it won--a bit Orwellian, if you'll forgive me a tired adjective.

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JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 9:48:11 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

It struck me as Orwellian, and I was gratified to read in today's New York Times that I wasn't alone in that reaction: George Orwell and the N.C.A.A.


Would you please post the article? I'm near my limit for NYT articles for the month.

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 9:52:50 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Would you please post the article? I'm near my limit for NYT articles for the month.

I know the feeling! I may have to break down and subscribe, which I suppose is the NYT's goal. I don't think they count article I access via other sites or Google, though. But here goes:

George Orwell and the N.C.A.A.

By GARY ALAN FINE
Published: July 24, 2012

On Monday, the National Collegiate Athletic Association made a remarkable — and disturbing — decision. As one of the sanctions against Pennsylvania State University, it determined that all of Penn State’s football victories from 1998 to 2011 were to be “vacated.” Whoosh! As a result, Joe Paterno no longer holds the major college coaching record for career wins. Someone else now has that honor. George Orwell would be amused.

In his magnificent dystopia, “1984,” Orwell understood well the dangers of “history clerks.” Those given authority to write history can change the past. Those sweat-and-mud victories of the Nittany Lions — more points on the scoreboard — no longer exist. The winners are now the losers.

One might wonder whether the N.C.A.A.’s rush to judgment — a rush that ignored its own procedures of examining each case through the sanctions committee — was truly necessary. And one might question a set of sanctions whose human victims were not involved in the crimes. But let us put aside these niceties. Surely Penn State the institution deserves sanctions for the deplorable actions of authorities. Sometimes organizations are treated as people.

The more significant question is whether rewriting history is the proper answer. And while this is not the first time that game outcomes have been vacated, changing 14 seasons of football history is a unique and disquieting response. We learn bad things about people all the time, but should we change our history? Should we, like Orwell’s totalitarian Oceania, have a Ministry of Truth that has the authority to scrub the past? Should our newspapers have to change their back files? And how far should we go? Should we review Babe Ruth’s records? Or O. J. Simpson’s? Should a disgraced senator have her votes vacated? Perhaps we should claim that Joe McCarthy actually lost his elections. Or give victory to John Edwards’s opponent?

Several years ago, my school, Northwestern University, had a small scandal in which a star football player pleaded guilty to committing perjury in a trial that involved betting on the school’s games. Surely it was a bad thing, and one that deserved condemnation. Our athletic director suggested that the player’s records be erased from the school’s record books. I was teaching a course on scandals at the time, and the class and I wrote to our president arguing that erasure was not the answer. Added information was. We were gratified that our president wisely agreed, and our history was not blemished.

It is understandable that an organization would want its official history to reflect its hopes and desires. But our histories must properly reflect what happened at the time and not in our imaginations. Those young men at Penn State deserve the recognition for their efforts, as does Mr. Paterno, who died in January, as a stellar football strategist. We have learned over the past decades that societies are quite able to remember painful moments with sensitivity. This is evident in the memorials to the victims of Nazism throughout Germany and our memorials to slavery or internment. The memorial to the shooting victims at Kent State is a recognition in stone and grass that horror can be recalled on campus.

Social institutions, like the N.C.A.A., have an absolute right and a moral obligation to respond forcefully to crimes and infractions that occur in areas of their responsibility. The N.C.A.A. properly recognized that Penn State should be sanctioned, but it should not create a fantasized history. Men in suits should not undo what boys in uniforms have achieved.

While the shame of honoring flawed people in a record book is understandable, covering up what happened is never the solution. Building a false history is the wrong way to recall the past. True and detailed histories always work better.

Gary Alan Fine is a professor of sociology at Northwestern University and the author of “Difficult Reputations: Collective Memories of the Evil, Inept and Controversial.”

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 10:27:56 AM   
kalikshama


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Thanks!

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RE: Penn State failures draw unprecedented NCAA sanctions - 7/26/2012 11:01:10 AM   
LaTigresse


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Thank you for that. I missed it in my scan of the NYT. It does give reason for pause, when examined under that light.

Made me think of a DVD I watched again last night. 'Good Night, and Good Luck.'

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 49
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