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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:48:01 AM   
thetammyjo


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I fully agree, LuckyAlbatross.

It hurts me not at all to try and be tactful when I talk and polite when I act. I find that if I take the time to get to know someone and try to understand them rather than making a snap judgement or dragging out a variety of terms to call them that I learn about myself.

I like learning about myself; I'm so complex this could take a lifetime.

;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy
So my question; Am I the only one who sees this? Does anybody agree with the quotes I found? Is political correctness making it damn near impossible to search for a lifestyle partner because everybody defines things the way they are comfortable with and everybody else is telling them it is ok to do so? Is it even affecting something so mundane as how we write a post it note for fear of offending someone?

I think like any way of interacting with others, going to extremes isn't helpful.

I agree in the ideas of listening to others, of being considerate of others, of shaping my language to be inclusive, of using words that are likely to foster communication and understanding rather than alienating and shutting out. If those are PC ideals- I'm ok with that.

I can be a polite and nice person and do all those "typically PC things" and still be true to myself. I don't consider myself being compromised by being socially aware and comfortable.

"Acting PC" can go to as unhealthy an extreme as "Being brutally honest." People who rail against being PC are just as bad as the ones who pander to it.

I see nothing wrong with trying to be open and courteous, trying to be inclusive and aware.


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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:50:34 AM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
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To answer the OP, yes.  Politically Correct is a problem, no matter what type of relationship you happen to be involved in.  Fact of the matter is, not everyone will always agree.  Whether an individual likes it or not, there IS right and wrong.  It isn't all about 'me' all the time. 
 
PC and politeness coupled with tact are NOT the same thing.  PC gets down right confusing and/or ridiculous in some cases, to the point where you stare at what was said and think 'huh?? did they seriously just SAY that??'.
 
Others may (and most likely will) disagree with what I'm about to say, and that's okay.  Be polite.  Be tactful.  Be compassionate...  But DON'T be wishy-washy!  Don't bend whichever the way the wind is blowing like you are a poor lonely blade of grass without a backbone or will of your own.  If something is wrong, don't say it's okay anyway.  Don't be rude about it, but don't roll over either.
 
Hopefully what I just said made sense.  I'm still on my first cuppa coffee this morning.
 
zuma

(in reply to twicehappy)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:53:15 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HollyS

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Come on, if your name is Johnny and you are eating shit from your Master’s ass to get off in reality you are a homosexual with a scat fetish.

If your girlfriend whips your ass you are a sub, a slave, a switch or a bottom. What you are not is a Dom. I really do not care how you feel about, how you define it does not mean a damn thing; if some one is whipping your ass you are not a Dom, period!

You can call yourself a slave or subbie until the cows come home; if you only submit in the bedroom when and how you want, you are bottom or you simply enjoy kinky sex. What you are not is a slave or subbie, period.


twicehappy-

I'm confused why these things are important to you.  In all three examples you give, the person is defining themselves, not anyone else, and hasn't done anything that would affect you. 

I'm speaking directly to these three examples, since these are what you chose to put up here.  How are you hurt by others self-defining their own reality?

~Holly


I'll answer for her for two reasons... I type faster and I'm just in that kind of mood today. And in case you are not aware of it, she is sitting about two feet from me.
 
First, none of those scenerios hurt her, or anyone else for that matter... what matters is the absolute dishonesty of the situation. To my knowledge dishonesty has never been known to have a real good outcome. Why would that have any effect on me and mine... or anyone else? Well, lets spell it out here ok?
 
I am looking for a male slave (not that I honestly believe they exist at this point, but it occupies some of my spare time) and I scan the profiles on the other side. I find someone close to where I live... they have a great profile so I contact them. Now, lets just say for the sake of fantasy that they reply. So far so good. We talk and we talk... then we talk some more... so far they are living up to what their profile says. Then... if the Goddess is with me, we meet. Great first meeting and all that (keep in mind this is a fantasy) so we start spending time together. After a month or so of this I find out that in reality he is nothing more then a "bottom" and all he wants out of life is kinky sex.
 
That's where my problem with all this pc crap stems. "It's ok, call yourself whatever you want"... "If you feel like you are a slave then it's ok to call yourself one"... NO, it isn't. If all you want out of life is kinky sex then by all means have a blast and go for it, but don't tell me you're a slave! Be honest in your profile and if someone blows you some shit about it tell them to kiss your ass... but don't f**king waste my time and the time of others that believe the bs in your profile. Just because we (and I mean me and mine) are not in it for the kinky sex doesn't mean we don't have feelings too. This "no one looses and everyone is right" crap is just plain bull shit, people are sometimes wrong and it's politically incorrect to tell them so... that's bull shit too.
 
I'm all for tolerance... so how about we "tolerate" the truth for a bit? I'm not aiming this at you directly HollyS, I'm directing it at the situation in general.
 
How does it affect others.. simple, it's a lie, plain and simple. It's a way to validate and justify living that lie. And as much as that may work for people that have been doing it for years it does more damage to others that are seeking to learn and grow into this or any other lifestyle. Yeah, the truth hurts sometimes... but it's learning experience and a natural progression of growth.
 
Jewel



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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:54:35 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Like most political movements, the ideals are good, but the execution goes to unhealthy extremes.


Yes they do...and that was the point (I think, correct me if I'm wrong twice) of this post. It HAS gone too far.

I read somewhere that in some places it is now ILLEGAL for a man to whistle at a woman. That is political correctness to an extreme. And the only way to get it back into perspective and stop it from swinging even farther in it's current direction is the same way it got to where it is....by pushing it. Enough is enough. Sometimes the answer really IS the un-politically correct one.

_____________________________

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:56:46 AM   
twicehappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkee


and IMHO there is a consensus amoungst most P/posters that W/we will not write "hate speech" and W/we will try to be as inclusive as W/we can.  Obviously, not E/everyone agrees, but that's what the "block" button is for.


Hate speech is not being politically incorrect it is being hateful and hurtful.

This post is not about espousing hatred, it is about calling a spade a spade and having and giving correct definitions to things as they are instead of the spouting the generic I’m ok you're ok whatever you think idealism speech. It's about stating your true opinions with out fear of repercussions because you injured someone’s feelings by doing so or by stating a truth when a lie would make them feel so much nicer about themselves. 



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The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:59:04 AM   
thetammyjo


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twicehappy, I see lots of quotes about what non-PC people think about PC but I don't see any examples from this board or even from the BDSM community at large in your OP.

Can you give some specific examples?



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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to twicehappy)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 7:59:55 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Is Political Correctness affecting the bdsm community


Yes. It always has though; lately it has just become more pronounced.

quote:

  The world at large?


Same answer.

quote:

Is political correctness making it damn near impossible to search for a lifestyle partner because everybody defines things the way they are comfortable with and everybody else is telling them it is ok to do so? 


So you are saying that it's wrong for someone to accept how another feels? Or their own outlook on certain things in life? Just looking for clarification.

quote:

  Is it even affecting something so mundane as how we write a post it note for fear of offending someone?



I don't think it affects how we write. However, it does bring up some basic courtesy and manners when addressing others. I don't find that to be a bad thing.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:00:45 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel 
First, none of those scenerios hurt her, or anyone else for that matter... what matters is the absolute dishonesty of the situation. To my knowledge dishonesty has never been known to have a real good outcome. Why would that have any effect on me and mine... or anyone else? Well, lets spell it out here ok?
 
I am looking for a male slave (not that I honestly believe they exist at this point, but it occupies some of my spare time) and I scan the profiles on the other side. I find someone close to where I live... they have a great profile so I contact them. Now, lets just say for the sake of fantasy that they reply. So far so good. We talk and we talk... then we talk some more... so far they are living up to what their profile says. Then... if the Goddess is with me, we meet. Great first meeting and all that (keep in mind this is a fantasy) so we start spending time together. After a month or so of this I find out that in reality he is nothing more then a "bottom" and all he wants out of life is kinky sex.
 
That's where my problem with all this pc crap stems. "It's ok, call yourself whatever you want"... "If you feel like you are a slave then it's ok to call yourself one"... NO, it isn't. If all you want out of life is kinky sex then by all means have a blast and go for it, but don't tell me you're a slave! Be honest in your profile and if someone blows you some shit about it tell them to kiss your ass... but don't f**king waste my time and the time of others that believe the bs in your profile. Just because we (and I mean me and mine) are not in it for the kinky sex doesn't mean we don't have feelings too. This "no one looses and everyone is right" crap is just plain bull shit, people are sometimes wrong and it's politically incorrect to tell them so... that's bull shit too.
 
I'm all for tolerance... so how about we "tolerate" the truth for a bit? I'm not aiming this at you directly HollyS, I'm directing it at the situation in general.
 
How does it affect others.. simple, it's a lie, plain and simple. It's a way to validate and justify living that lie. And as much as that may work for people that have been doing it for years it does more damage to others that are seeking to learn and grow into this or any other lifestyle. Yeah, the truth hurts sometimes... but it's learning experience and a natural progression of growth. 


Once again your drive home the reason why I like you so much!!!
I abso-f***ing-lutely agree!!!!


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:01:27 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

“Political correctness is literally a form of cultural Marxism. Where Marxism is an economic-political doctrine, political correctness is a cultural-political doctrine. They are both totalitarian. They are both dangerous.”



From what I understand political correctness was born out of a misinterpretation of Wittgenstein's Tractatus in the social science faculties of America. Wittgenstein said 'That which we cannot say we must pass over in silence.' which it has been taken to mean, language sets the boundaries of human reality. However, he did not mean this but was actually talking about the limits of philosophical enquiry. He later repudiated this from what I understand.

Nietzche described language as nothing more than a nerve stimulus expressed in sound. So limit your language and limit your personal expression. You pay your money and take your choice.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:05:35 AM   
darkinshadows


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I am actually hitting the fast reply because I am kind of confused - does anyone here actually know what PC is?
Because I seriously have no idea if people do based on the majority of responses.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to twicehappy)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:06:52 AM   
LL1aintbehavin


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twicehappy.
thank you so much for starting this thread, this has been on my mind for a while after reading some of the posts here.
it seems that someone will start a thread telling what terrible things they do in their live, but explain why they do it.
instead of someone saying your are wrong, what the hell are you doing, the replies are okay its not my thing but since you explained so nicely why you are continuing to do something that you feel is wrong have fun.
anyone who comes out and says hey, that is wrong and everyone knows it gets flamed for their opinions.
i agree that every kink is not for everyone, and should be tolerated, certain life issues are just wrong.
some come to these boards to justify what they obviously know the should not be doing in life and to get validation for that.
everyone has the right to make their own decisions, whether right or wrong, but they come to the boards knowing they are doing something wrong, explain themselves and expect to be told its okay and get their justification.  when someone calls a spade a spade everyone jumps and flames their ass.
some may do the same to me now, but i don't give a shit.
some things are just wrong, just cause we are in the lifestyle doesn't make them right.
bravo twicehappy, you have said what i have been thinking but in a very eloquent way.
oh, and if this isn't pc to some people???? ummmm,    lol
aintbehavin

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:10:28 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
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From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I am actually hitting the fast reply because I am kind of confused - does anyone here actually know what PC is?
Because I seriously have no idea if people do based on the majority of responses.
 
Peace and Rapture



 

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:13:31 AM   
TNstepsout


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The real problem with PC is that those people who are ignorant, intolerant, judgemental asses will still be that way, with or without PC. It began with a genuinely noble motivation but has gotten out of control. When black sheep become rainbow sheep, it's gone WAY too far.

As far as whether it's affected the "lifestyle" I've no idea. I haven't been here very long. But I'm not sure if what you describe is PC. It sounds to me more like differences in perception/understanding of terms and labels. Perhaps said, shit eating gay boy doesn't want to say he's gay, NOT because of fear of being a faggot, but because it's only one thing he likes and he doesn't want to be boxed into only one label or definition.

Which, by the way, I have to question what I see as a conflict in your perception. By your definition sub/slave is reserved ONLY for those who choose a full time lifestyle of being sub/slave. Anyone else, is just a bottom. However, those who choose to have gay encounters from time to time, but do not live it full time, ARE gay or Bi.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:14:04 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LL1aintbehavin

twicehappy.
thank you so much for starting this thread, this has been on my mind for a while after reading some of the posts here.
it seems that someone will start a thread telling what terrible things they do in their live, but explain why they do it.
instead of someone saying your are wrong, what the hell are you doing, the replies are okay its not my thing but since you explained so nicely why you are continuing to do something that you feel is wrong have fun.
anyone who comes out and says hey, that is wrong and everyone knows it gets flamed for their opinions.
i agree that every kink is not for everyone, and should be tolerated, certain life issues are just wrong.
some come to these boards to justify what they obviously know the should not be doing in life and to get validation for that.
everyone has the right to make their own decisions, whether right or wrong, but they come to the boards knowing they are doing something wrong, explain themselves and expect to be told its okay and get their justification. when someone calls a spade a spade everyone jumps and flames their ass.
some may do the same to me now, but i don't give a shit.
some things are just wrong, just cause we are in the lifestyle doesn't make them right.
bravo twicehappy, you have said what i have been thinking but in a very eloquent way.
oh, and if this isn't pc to some people???? ummmm, lol
aintbehavin


We must read very different threads because I see people writing "you are wrong", "this is a diaster waiting to happen," and "stop doing this" over and over again and again. Generally, as you might imagine, this upsets the OP and they get nasty and then more nasty spirals from there.

I don't see this PC problem (whatever that might be, I agree with your question, darkinshadows) here or anywhere else. I do see and hear and read a lot of peple complaining about it though. I work at a university and no one is prevented from carrying signs and saying nasty names -- they can be told to do it in a certain location set up for those sorts of political/social activities but so are the people opposing them or people speaking out on other issues.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LL1aintbehavin)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:15:19 AM   
Kidsphoenixx


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Fast reply.... to no one in particular.
Just an observation:
When natural laws are overruled by man-made laws....that society is doomed.
Add PC to the growing list of those man-made rules.

(in reply to LL1aintbehavin)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:16:17 AM   
meatcleaver


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This is an example so please don't take offence. The theory is if a person says they hate black people they will hate black people because by using such language they have introduced the concept into their imagination. Therefore if society curtails someones right to say they hate black people, the concept of hating black people will be expunged from their imagination. If you think about it, it is nonsense.

When British troops occupied the Falkland Islands they called the local people Bennies, after a character that was a country idiot in a soap opera. They were ordered not to call the locals Bennies because they were causing an offence so the troops began calling the locals Stills ie. still Bennies.

Political correctness neither modifies the imagination or corrects attitudes some people find unacceptable. Free speach, debate and winning hearts and minds are the only way to win people to a cause. I don't hate black people not because I am under social pressure not to voice hate against black people but because I realise how stupid, damaging and malicious being hateful to fellow humans is, just because they have a different colour skin to me.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:26:36 AM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

with"Do you feel like you are gay? If you feel you are gay then you might be gay, explore those feelings. But if you feel you are straight even though you just admitted to blowing three men last night then you are straight, nobody can define your sexuality but you and that's ok if that's how you feel".

To those kinds of statements i say BULL SHIT! If you are a guy sucking off another guy you are bi or gay, not straight.

I am trying to see how you feel this is anything to do with political correctness?
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:27:17 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

twicehappy, I see lots of quotes about what non-PC people think about PC but I don't see any examples from this board or even from the BDSM community at large in your OP.

Can you give some specific examples?


Here are a few, with more search time i will post more later.

"Hmmm it is OK because whatever labels we wish to put on ourselves are OK"
 
"Could be...however, in a not so perfect world, 'face the reality' means a different reality from ours...it's their reality and that reality might be one that is of secrecy. It does not mean they like it or enjoy it...it means.....it is their reality and not mine, or yours"
 
"Its not up to me or you to decide to call someone not a slave. If someone wants a label to be able to get into a particular headspace - good for them.

If you want to be exact - slave means an owned property - so sure, some people wouldn't be slaves, because they aren't owned.

But that would be the only reason - and as we all know, labels in BDSM rarely conform to outside of wiitwd.

If that was the case, I would be a slave. I am owned property - I am what would be viewed as 'no limits'... But - it is prefered that I am not refered to as slave because of personal choice of Demons.

So if someone calls themself slave - who are we to judge that they are not? If someone calls themself Master - so what? We have the ability to just walk away and not call them what they insist - but we certainly don't have the right to deny them being what they feel."

 
 
"lables, day in and day out lables...The definitions can be appliacble  to anyone at any time. People may drift in and out  of one definition to another. As long as you are happy about what you  identify as; why should it matter the precice correct and approved defination  of any given activity at any given moment; and just who's buiness is it anyway"



< Message edited by twicehappy -- 6/9/2006 8:39:08 AM >


_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:30:25 AM   
Lordandmaster


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"Political correctness" (like "family values") was invented by the right wing as a way of diverting attention away from real issues like prejudice, bigotry, and racial insensitivity.  It was never intended to be a real issue.  It was a red herring from the start.  We were all supposed to get very upset at those liberals who were forcing us to change our vocabulary and watch the way we speak--instead of working together to solve problems of discrimination and inequality that still plague this country.

As usual, they seem to be winning.

(in reply to twicehappy)
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RE: Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm com... - 6/9/2006 8:32:08 AM   
Tikkiee


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Personally, I don't follow the idea that being Politically Correct saves others from being offended. However, I am having a hard time understanding where it fits in with your post?
 


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