Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: climate change denier comes to his senses


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: climate change denier comes to his senses Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 2:19:00 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Why can't everyone just stop exhaling. Does this explain why the polar caps on Mars and venus shrinking as well?

Polar caps on Venus?????????????????
What the fuck are you smoking?


Haha...


Ice caps on Venus.

bwahahahahaha


How many times have I got to point out that we've learned quite a lot since 1968. For instance the fact that there is no liquid much less solid water on Venus.


But the information is from Science The World's Leading Journal of Scientific Research, Global News and Commentary.

/pure snark





_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 2:25:10 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

2. Didn't Muller say these were NOT GW events?

Muller said their was no way to make a causul link. That is a long way from saying they weren't related to climate change.



1. Muller said their was no way to make a causul link.

2. That is a long way from saying they weren't related to climate change. <<< Note the slant. No different from saying that is a long way from saying they were related to climate change.

Actually the fact is these recent events will be studied in great detail and only then will scientists see if the preponderance of the evidence is that these events were or were not related to AGW. Right now, the data is not yet analyzed enough to let anyone draw any conclusions.


That wasn't hard, now was it? An honest posting without slant.



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 2:30:44 PM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline
It's so hot on Venus that scientists think
It actualy snows metal...

Venus Snow!

-ARIES

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 8:38:44 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for predicting an ice age before the turn of the century, you wouldn't have a reference to that little bit of asswipe would ya?


IIRC, it was the cover of TIME magazine.


I never knew TIME was a scientific journal. Thanks for clearing that up.


That's hysterical , seeing as the OP is quoting the OP-ED of The New York Times. Quite the scientific journal there, don't you think?


Have I said whether I agreed or disagreed with the OP and why?
Where's that damn strawman smiley?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 8:40:13 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Why can't everyone just stop exhaling. Does this explain why the polar caps on Mars and venus shrinking as well?

Polar caps on Venus?????????????????
What the fuck are you smoking?


Haha...


Ice caps on Venus.

bwahahahahaha


In 1968, continental drift was a radical new theory. We've come a long way.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 9:20:24 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Two serious questions. No snark.

1. No similar problems in the Southern Hemisphere?

2. Didn't Muller say these were NOT GW events?




Vincent, we had those awful floods last year in Qld with a lot of fatalities, which followed almost immediately the breaking of the worst drought in over a century. There has been quite a few extreme climate events here in the past decade, far more and far more severe than is usual.

My reading was that Mueller said that the cause of current and recent extreme weather events could not be identified using his data, not that it was impossible for AGW to have caused those events.

Finally if your objection to the scientific consensus on climate change is :
"Primarily, it is a matter of science philosophy.[..] .......... In the short run the fix is worse than the problem imho. Human population is climbing rapidly toward nine billion. To cut manufacturing back to 1990 levels by 2015 (Kyoto Protocol) would bring on a disastrous world economic depression. Especially in agriculture. The emerging nations will never agree to that action. Beware unintended consequences. The rich would thrive and the poor would suffer greater hardships. "
As your stated reasons are philosophical and political, it could appear to some that no data will convince you. I do hope that is not the case.

_____________________________



(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/7/2012 9:41:15 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for predicting an ice age before the turn of the century, you wouldn't have a reference to that little bit of asswipe would ya?


IIRC, it was the cover of TIME magazine.


I never knew TIME was a scientific journal. Thanks for clearing that up.


That's hysterical , seeing as the OP is quoting the OP-ED of The New York Times. Quite the scientific journal there, don't you think?


The OP is an op-ed for the NYT, that outlines the findings of the study. The full studies can be found here. This site advises:
"The final paper has been provisionally accepted (pending the acceptance of the paper on the Averaging process) by JGR Atmospheres, and has not changed significantly since October 2011."

So it is about to be published in a climate science journal. Yachtie's post displays all the desperation of a drowning person clutching at straws.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/7/2012 9:42:54 PM >


_____________________________



(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/8/2012 12:02:10 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Two serious questions. No snark.

1. No similar problems in the Southern Hemisphere?

2. Didn't Muller say these were NOT GW events?




Vincent, we had those awful floods last year in Qld with a lot of fatalities, which followed almost immediately the breaking of the worst drought in over a century. There has been quite a few extreme climate events here in the past decade, far more and far more severe than is usual.

My reading was that Mueller said that the cause of current and recent extreme weather events could not be identified using his data, not that it was impossible for AGW to have caused those events.

Finally if your objection to the scientific consensus on climate change is :
"Primarily, it is a matter of science philosophy.[..] .......... In the short run the fix is worse than the problem imho. Human population is climbing rapidly toward nine billion. To cut manufacturing back to 1990 levels by 2015 (Kyoto Protocol) would bring on a disastrous world economic depression. Especially in agriculture. The emerging nations will never agree to that action. Beware unintended consequences. The rich would thrive and the poor would suffer greater hardships. "
As your stated reasons are philosophical and political, it could appear to some that no data will convince you. I do hope that is not the case.


Central coast Nsw*

we didn't get summer end of last year/beginning of this year...
I'm serious... We have had 8months of chilly/temperate
weather... Umm we usualy get a summer FYI...

All the dams are full and this is the first summer we haven't
had a bush fire warning since as far back as I can remember.
And we haven't had one because everything has been soggy
as shit for 8months.

Australia is leading the world in climate change rationality
as far as I'm concerned.

-ARIES



_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/8/2012 8:14:53 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Two serious questions. No snark.

1. No similar problems in the Southern Hemisphere?

2. Didn't Muller say these were NOT GW events?




Vincent, we had those awful floods last year in Qld with a lot of fatalities, which followed almost immediately the breaking of the worst drought in over a century. There has been quite a few extreme climate events here in the past decade, far more and far more severe than is usual.

My reading was that Mueller said that the cause of current and recent extreme weather events could not be identified using his data, not that it was impossible for AGW to have caused those events.

Finally if your objection to the scientific consensus on climate change is :
"Primarily, it is a matter of science philosophy.[..] .......... In the short run the fix is worse than the problem imho. Human population is climbing rapidly toward nine billion. To cut manufacturing back to 1990 levels by 2015 (Kyoto Protocol) would bring on a disastrous world economic depression. Especially in agriculture. The emerging nations will never agree to that action. Beware unintended consequences. The rich would thrive and the poor would suffer greater hardships. "
As your stated reasons are philosophical and political, it could appear to some that no data will convince you. I do hope that is not the case.


Tweakabelle, I feel we have to be cautious not to be mislead by short term, recurring phenomena. The current severe drought in the USA follows droughts that occurred in the 1950s and the 1930s. Here is a report that the current drought is a La Nina event:

Though scientists have looked at data that indicates that North America is currently suffering from drought due to massive La Niña ocean events, an IPCC report notes that scientists have linked significantly the intensity, duration, and proliferation of droughts, like the one that occurred this year, to global warming. Climate models tend to agree that, in the future, droughts will get more intense and more frequent in the Mediterranean, in central North America, Mexico, northeast Brazil and southern Africa. while predicting that these events will become more frequent and harsher.

A different article points to La Nina drought effects in the USA and high precipitation in AUS:

"A new La Niña episode developed quite quickly in the eastern and central tropical Pacific in mid-2010,[4] and lasted until early 2011.[1] It intensified again in the mid-2011 and is predicted to last at least until early 2012[5] This La Niña, combined with record-high ocean temperatures in the north-eastern Indian Ocean, has been a large factor in the 2010–2011 Queensland floods,[6] and the quartet of recent heavy snowstorms in North America starting with the December 2010 North American blizzard. The same La Niña event is also a likely cause of a series of tornadoes of above-average severity that struck the Midwestern and Southern United States in the spring of 2011, and is currently a major factor in the drought conditions persisting in the South Central states including Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas. [7]

In 2011, on a global scale, La Niña events helped keep the average global temperature below recent trends. As a result, 2011 tied with 1997 for the 11th warmest year on record. It was the second coolest year of the 21st century to date, and tied with the second warmest year of the 20th century. A relatively strong phase of La Niña opened the year, dissipated in the spring before re-emerging in October and lasted through the end of the year. When compared to previous La Niña years, the 2011 global surface temperature was the warmest observed. The 2011 globally-averaged precipitation over land was the second wettest year on record, behind 2010. Precipitation varied greatly across the globe. La Niña contributed to severe drought in the Horn of Africa and to Australia’s third wettest year in its 112-year period of record. [8]" Wiki link here.

In a La Nina event the Pacific is cooler than usual but the land gets warmer (?)

In the past 30 years we have had increasingly milder winters in south Florida. Evidence of a warming. But it may be short term and simply a repeat of previous warming events on earth that result from shifts in complex ocean and atmospheric currents.

From a variety of sources, including the Muller report, I am unconvinced that CO2 is a major causal agent.

So, basically IDK and remain skeptical. I cannot foresee what will change my mind but perhaps something will. And yanno the world will well get along without my opinion I have learned.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/8/2012 9:44:38 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How definite is the attribution to humans? The carbon dioxide curve gives a better match than anything else we’ve tried. Its magnitude is consistent with the calculated greenhouse effect — extra warming from trapped heat radiation. These facts don’t prove causality and they shouldn’t end skepticism, but they raise the bar: to be considered seriously, an alternative explanation must match the data at least as well as carbon dioxide does.


This is really the bottom line, when the partisan/corporate shit stops.

Is there global warming? Yes.

Is it caused by industrialization? Maybe.

But also consider -- are the stakes high? They are.


So... maybe... just maybe... the World should be using its resources and capital in an effort to ADAPT to a warmer planet and not piss away trillions of dollars trying to stop it.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/8/2012 11:17:14 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How definite is the attribution to humans? The carbon dioxide curve gives a better match than anything else we’ve tried. Its magnitude is consistent with the calculated greenhouse effect — extra warming from trapped heat radiation. These facts don’t prove causality and they shouldn’t end skepticism, but they raise the bar: to be considered seriously, an alternative explanation must match the data at least as well as carbon dioxide does.


This is really the bottom line, when the partisan/corporate shit stops.

Is there global warming? Yes.

Is it caused by industrialization? Maybe.

But also consider -- are the stakes high? They are.


So... maybe... just maybe... the World should be using its resources and capital in an effort to ADAPT to a warmer planet and not piss away trillions of dollars trying to stop it.


The less CO2 we add to the air the less warming will occur. Therefore reducing CO2 emmissions will make it much easier to adapt.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/8/2012 11:21:53 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline
And the more air conditioning we have have will also make it much easier to adapt

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/8/2012 11:26:12 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

And the more air conditioning we have have will also make it much easier to adapt


When I saw this post on the scroll, I thought it was RealOne.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 1:19:09 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
~FR~

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

All of the following is taken from the climate blog of Dr. Judith Curry who was a member of Muller’s Berkely team but refused to co-author the study. http://judithcurry.com/2012/08/04/the-irresistable-story-of-richard-muller/

“The basic notion that greenhouse gases causes global warming is hardly newsworthy, and the study has been by and large treated as such within the climate community. But some are once again questioning the way Muller and his team have gone about their work as well as the conclusions they are drawing. University of Georgia climatologist Judith Curry, who was a co-author on the prior studies but declined to sign her name to the latest, offered a lengthy criticism on her blog. Although the temperature record itself is useful, she asks this question: If determining attribution is as simple as comparing a couple of curves, why is everybody else wasting their time with sophisticated modelling and analyses?”

Muller on Curry
This text appeared in the Carbon Brief interview:

One of the strongest voices criticising the study comes from the BEST team itself. Dr Judith Curry, head of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology, declined to be a co-author on the latest BEST study, and says on her blog she does not “see any justification in [BEST's] argument for” the group’s statement that its warming data fits with manmade carbon dioxide. Curry’s not alone: former climate scientist William Connolley claims BEST has done “none of the attribution work you’d expect”.

Muller says Curry distanced herself from the paper because she disagrees with the findings, and that she has an alternative theory – that the climate is random, so any correlation between increases in carbon dioxide and warming is an accident. His response: “‘I’ve said to her that the unfortunate aspect of her theory is that it’s untestable. Now a theory that’s untestable is not something I consider to be a theory.”

No one who frequents this blog has ever seen me refer to climate as ‘random’. I have an email discussion with Muller, who said he used the word ‘random’ in the interview since it is more easily understood by the public. He has read my post Trends, Changepoints, and Hypotheses. Re the climate shifts hypothesis, he is concerned that it is not testable. I argued that it is just as testable as the other two hypotheses, and observations are not currently sufficient to distinguish between these three hypotheses.



Trends, change points & hypotheses Posted on February 7, 2012 at http://judithcurry.com/2012/02/07/trends-change-points-hypotheses/

by Judith Curry at Jonathan Leake asks in the Sunday Times: “Why has it warmed so much less than the IPCC predicted?“

The article provides a good overview on the debate. Some summary excerpts:
Is it really true that global temperatures have not risen since 1997?

The simple answer is: they have risen, but not by very much. “Our records for the past 15 years suggest the world has warmed by about 0.051C over that period,” said the Met Office. In layman’s terms that is 51 thousandths of a degree.

One [dataset], held at the National Climate Data Centre (NCDC), run by America’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, suggests that global temperatures rose by an average of 0.074C since 1997. That’s small, too — but it is another rise.

A third and very different data set is overseen by John Christy. . . “From 1997-2011 our data show a global temperature rise of 0.15C,” he said.

Overall, then, the world has got slightly warmer since 1997. Perhaps the real question is: why has it warmed so much less than was predicted by the climate models?

For the critics of climate science this is a crucial point — but why? The answer goes back to the 2001 and 2007 science reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that had predicted the world was likely to warm by an average of about 0.2C a decade. The implication was that temperatures would rise steadily, not with 15-year gaps. The existence of such gaps, the critics argue, implies the climate models themselves are too flawed to be relied on.

Some scientists appear to be warning we will fry, while other sources fear we will freeze.
How we interpret the 20th century temperature data has implications for how we project future temperature variability and change.

[SNIP]

An argument for change-point analysis and analysis of partial time series is provided by Raymond Sneyers: Climate Chaotic Instability: Statistical Determination and Theoretical Background [sneyers environometrics].
Abstract. The paper concerns the determination of statistical climate properties, a problem especially important for climate prediction validation. After a brief review of the times series analyses applied on secular series of observations, an appropriate method is described for characterizing these properties which finally reduces itself to the search for existing change-points. The examples of the Jones North Hemispheric land temperature averages (1856±1995) and of the Prague Klementinum ones (1771±1993) are given and results discussed. Relating the observed chaotic character of the climatological series to the non-linearity of the equations ruling the weather and thus climate evolution, and presenting the example of a solution of the Lorenz non-linear equations showing that non-linearity may be responsible for the instability of the generated process, it seems justified to conclude that there are severe limits to climate predictability at all scales.

Three competing hypotheses

Consider the following three hypotheses that explain 20th century climate variability and change, with implied future projections:

I. IPCC AGW hypothesis: 20th century climate variability/change is explained by external forcing, with natural internal variability providing high frequency ‘noise’. In the latter half of the 20th century, this external forcing has been dominated by anthropogenic gases and aerosols. The implications for temperature change in the 21st century is 0.2C per decade until 2050.Challenges: convincing explanations of the warming 1910-1940, explaining the flat trend between mid 1940′s and mid 1970′s, explaining the flat trend for the past 15 years.

II. Multi-decadal oscillations plus trend hypothesis: 20th century climate variability/change is explained by the large multidecadal oscillations (e.g NAO, PDO, AMO) with a superimposed trend of external forcing (AGW warming). The implications for temperature change in the 21st century is relatively constant temperatures for the next several decades, or possible cooling associated with solar. Challenges: separating forced from unforced changes in the observed time series, lack of predictability of the multidecadal oscillations.

III: Climate shifts hypothesis: 20th century climate variability/change is explained by synchronized chaos arising from nonlinear oscillations of the coupled ocean/atmosphere system plus external forcing (e.g. Tsonis,Douglass). The most recent shift occurred 2001/2002, characterized by flattening temperatures and more frequent LaNina’s. The implications for the next several decades are that the current trend will continue until the next climate shift, at some unknown point in the future. External forcing (AGW, solar) will have more or less impact on trends depending on the regime, but how external forcing materializes in terms of surface temperature in the context of spatiotemporal chaos is not known. Note: hypothesis III is consistent with Sneyers’ arguments re change-point analysis. Challenges: figuring out the timing (and characteristics) of the next climate shift.

There are other hypotheses, but these three seem to cover most of the territory. The three hypotheses are not independent, but emphasize to varying degrees natural internal variability vs external forcing, and an interpretation of natural variability that is oscillatory versus phase locked shifts. Hypothesis I derives from the 1D energy balance, thermodynamic view of the climate system, whereas Hypothesis III derives from a nonlinear dynamical system characterized by spatiotemporal chaos. Hypothesis II derives from climate diagnostics and data analysis.

Each of these three hypotheses provides a different interpretation of the 20th century attribution and has different implications for 21st century climate. Hypothesis III is the hypothesis that I find most convincing, from a theoretical perspective and in terms of explaining historical observations, although this kind of perspective of the climate system is in its infancy.

Cherry picking data, or testing alternative hypotheses?

Back to the issue of cherry picking data, and interpreting the temperature time series for the past two decades.
Is the first decade+ of the 21st century the warmest in the past 100 years (as per Peter Gleick’s argument)? Yes, but the very small positive trend is not consistent with the expectation of 0.2C/decade provided by the IPCC AR4. In terms of anticipating temperature change in the coming decades, the AGW dominated prediction of 0.2C/decade does not seem like a good bet, particularly with the prospect of reduced solar radiation.
Has there been any warming since 1997 (Jonathan Leake’s question)? There has been slight warming during the past 15 years. Is it “cherry picking” to start a trend analysis at 1998? No, not if you are looking for a long period of time where there is little or no warming, in efforts to refute Hypothesis I.

In terms of projecting what might happen in coming decades, Hypothesis III is the best bet IMO, although it is difficult to know when the next change point might occur. Hypothesis III implies using 2002 as the starting point for analysis of the recent trend.

And finally, looking at global average temperatures makes sense in context of Hypothesis I, but isn’t very useful in terms of Hypothesis III.

And none of this data analysis is very satisfying or definitive owing to deficiencies in the data sets, particularly over the ocean.

IMO, the standard 1D energy balance model of the Earth’s climate system will provide little in the way of further insights; rather we need to bring additional physics and theory (e.g. entropy and the 2nd law) into the simple models, and explore the complexity of coupled nonlinear climate system characterized by spatiotemporal chaos."

Just sayin, there are other models, yanno

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 2:14:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
Curry's "hypothesis" is untestable since it predicts only what has already happened and any further climate change can be explained away as another of these mysterious and undetectable "climate shifts."

BTW remember when you made a big deal out of the heat wave of 1936? Guess what? The data shows that this past July was the hottest month ever recorded in the continetal US exceeding July 1936.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 4:35:39 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Curry's "hypothesis" is untestable since it predicts only what has already happened and any further climate change can be explained away as another of these mysterious and undetectable "climate shifts."


Her point is that the ocean/atmosphere interaction is too chaotic/dynamic to allow a simple linear causal relationship between external forcing and climate outcomes. The data is inadequate for chaos theory. Is that the best you can do when confronted with a sophisticated alternative?

quote:

BTW remember when you made a big deal out of the heat wave of 1936? Guess what? The data shows that this past July was the hottest month ever recorded in the continetal US exceeding July 1936.


I read the fine print, Ken. The difference is one tenth (0.10) degree F What a freakin joke!!! Lame, ol boy

< Message edited by vincentML -- 8/9/2012 4:57:38 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 5:08:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Curry's "hypothesis" is untestable since it predicts only what has already happened and any further climate change can be explained away as another of these mysterious and undetectable "climate shifts."


Her point is that the ocean/atmosphere interaction is too chaotic/dynamic to allow a simple linear causal relationship between external forcing and climate outcomes. The data is inadequate for chaos theory. Is that the best you can do when confronted with a sophisticated alternative?

Her point is not science and not mathematics. Weather may be unpredictable due to too many variables, as predicted by chaos theory, but climate, which is averages over large areas and works on a decadal time scale, averages out the small variables and is amenable to prediction and modeling. That's why when we see a La Nina or El Nino forming in the Pacific in January we can predict the climate trends for July in North America. That's also why we can see a steady rise in global atmospheric CO2 levels and predict a warmer and therefore more chaotic climate into the future.

quote:

BTW remember when you made a big deal out of the heat wave of 1936? Guess what? The data shows that this past July was the hottest month ever recorded in the continetal US exceeding July 1936.


I read the fine print, Ken. The difference is one tenth (0.10) degree F What a freakin joke!!! Lame, ol boy

1/10th of a degree average temperature across the continental US? You think that is a small difference? You do realize that that 1/10th is how much July 2012 exceeded the previously hottest month on record?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 6:04:02 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

And the more air conditioning we have have will also make it much easier to adapt


When I saw this post on the scroll, I thought it was RealOne.


There is one real0ne!

Batman lives!








wayback in the beginning of time JuliaOceania sent me a very informative link on the CARBON CYCLE, and it articulated how the earth corrects itself as a result of say carbon dioxide increase.

It creates more clouds, the clouds block the sun, causes more rain cooling and cleaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umrp1tIBY8Q





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/9/2012 6:11:53 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 6:51:12 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

And the more air conditioning we have have will also make it much easier to adapt



When I saw this post on the scroll, I thought it was RealOne.


When Greenland melts some will need bigger water-wings than others


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: climate change denier comes to his senses - 8/9/2012 6:59:23 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

wayback in the beginning of time JuliaOceania sent me a very informative link on the CARBON CYCLE, and it articulated how the earth corrects itself as a result of say carbon dioxide increase.

It creates more clouds, the clouds block the sun, causes more rain cooling and cleaning.


What's the Carbon Cycle say about IDIOTS who read it and say... "Oh thank God, I'm saved"?

Answer? NOT A FUCKING THING.

The carbon cycle does not address survival of species. If the one you read does, you're not reading an accurate description.

And trust in this... If the wealthy find a way to survive, you aren't invited.

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 8/9/2012 7:00:49 PM >


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: climate change denier comes to his senses Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.203