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For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/30/2012 5:58:29 PM   
ARIES83


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I do a lot of dog walking and over the years I have had to fight off the occasional dog attack, I don’t remember the exact number but I can tell you it's happened a fair few times, and I have found that there are some general do's and don'ts.
So i'll thought i'd share for those that may be interested.

I've never come across a dog attack as a result of a stray dog yet, so far every time it's been caused by a negligent owner not having full control over their dog, and I have a dominant male dog which I think may be a factor as well, my general advice is:

Avoid getting into the situation first, A indication that a dog approaching you may be up to no good is, the tail and the hair on it’s back (if it has long hair), a waggly tail means he’s coming up to you happily, A stiff tail means he at the very least cautious, the hair on the back will stand up a lot of times if the dog is in attack mode also. The ears aren’t always a good indication, even though a attacking dog will usually flatten them back, this can sometimes not happen until it’s just about to strike.
When you spend a bit of time around dogs you may pick up on other body language signs as well. If you can see a way of avoiding having the unfamiliar dog approaching to close, then do it.

Obviously most dogs will just want to say hello to your dog, so if you don’t want to avoid it or aren’t sure then there are a few pointers to be in a position where you are ready and in control should ‘saying hello” turn into a fight.
One way is to take hold of your dogs collar or hold the lead down close to it so you can control where your dog is. Just stand next to him like that while they say hello and see if they get along, If they do get into a fight, DON’T pull your dog up so he’s feet are off the ground or expose his underside. The objective is to maintain close control while holding it back and at your side, letting your dog face off against the other dog, otherwise you are just offering up your dogs vulnerable spots to attack. If you don’t have this close control over your dogs position you will have two dogs running around you and be in a very awkward position to take any real action, you might even kick your own dog accidentally.

Some dogs will just charge in like a cannon ball, it’s usually easy to tell if they are running up to attack so if this happens, take the above posture before it arrives. Shouting at it hardly ever has much effect on an attacking dog as most don’t factor the human into the equation. You simply aren’t an issue to them unless they have reason to fear you, but I still try to shout it away at first, can’t hurt, and if the owner is around it will alert him at least to what’s about to happen, and if he is the least bit competent he will try and call it back or come quickly to control his, then you can both hold your dogs and see if they can get use to each other.

Even if the owner is close by, unless he has direct control of his dog you can’t rely oh him for help, at least for the initial instant so be prepared to deal with the situation yourself. You should make yourself known to the other owner and don’t be shy, if the dog is attacking I believe GET YOUR FUCKING DOG ON THE LEAD is appropriate language.

So say a dog has come up and things have turned nasty, a lot of snarling, biting ect… DON’T attempt to pull apart two dogs locked together in a fight. STAY ON YOUR FEET and while you have control of your dogs position (while letting him face the other dog) pull him back and deliver a hard kick to the side of the attacking dogs head.

This will shock a lot of people, the fact I am advising kicking a dog in the head, but let me assure you I am a dog lover and I HATE ANIMAL CRULTY, it’s the safety of yourself and your dog that is at stake now and if you have already done what you can to avoid the situation, it’s now time to put your sensibilities aside and protect your wellbeing. DON’T try and grab the other dog!

Most dogs will not attack you when your dog is their focus, If you continue to kick and yell hard enough (in most cases) they will back up out of your range while still being focused on your dog, your kicks are a deterrent for them to approach within your striking range which your dog is within, under your control. DON’T crouch down or kneel, you will become a target.
Continue to pull back your dog while both facing the attacking dog, if he ventures in again repeat the above, DON’T KICK LIKE A GIRL the only way the dog is going to be deterred by your presence is to give him a really solid kick, don’t hold back and one or two should be enough.

With the controlling posture you adopt, the attacking dog should be directly in front and facing you both, you must kick the head, your goal is to drive the attacking dog back. A head blow will make it want to back off especially when it can see the foot coming in. kicking it in the side or ribs isn’t an effective deterrent. And you have the added chance of breaking a rib.
While kicking a dog in the head may seem cruel, it is the most humane choice and the only really effective one.

Remember Hold back, Kick, Pull back. Hold back, Kick, Pull back.
Remember Kick like you mean it, Hard, to the side of the head.
Remember Don’t kneel down and grab the other dog.

This was meant for owners of medium to big dogs facing a medium to big attacking dog. Maybe if you have a small dog you could pick it up but I don’t know how the attacking dog will respond to that.
I’d be interested in anyone else who feels like they can add something or who has had a lot of experience, with a different approach to throw it up as well.
These general strategies work well for me and I’ve had a lot of encounters (some recently) and since I’ve been using this technique, both me and my dog have come out of every incident unscathed.

Stay Safe,
-ARIES

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/30/2012 6:02:08 PM   
ARIES83


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This is what happens when you get down and try to pull them apart.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/30/2012 6:15:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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Is this another gun thread in disguise?

Just wondering, because I've never seen a gun-fan defending their ownership and toting of a gun because there might just be a savage dog in the neighbourhood that's ready and eager to leap at them and rip off their face. That seems a bit of an omission in the general gun-fans' argumentative arsenal, to me.

Still, if this has nothing to do with guns, please do move on and ignore this irrelevant post.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/30/2012 6:53:28 PM   
kalikshama


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My mother's dog Reba is almost completely deaf. Mom's in a very quiet rural neighborhood and walks Reba off leash, but brings a leash in case there's trouble. Because of the deafness, she can no longer call her back. She's aggressive with other dogs in a snarly but not bitey way. My Mom says they are both too old to learn to walk on a leash

I've expressed my fear that Reba will be unable to hear a car that will hit her but since cars go very slowly because it is a one lane dirt road, this is not effective with Mom.

I then suggested she get a dog whistle that Reba might be able to hear. A pet store clerk said the high range of hearing tends to go first and that Reba was unlikely to hear this.

Any suggestions?

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/30/2012 9:10:56 PM   
AlphaRedWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

My mother's dog Reba is almost completely deaf. Mom's in a very quiet rural neighborhood and walks Reba off leash, but brings a leash in case there's trouble. Because of the deafness, she can no longer call her back. She's aggressive with other dogs in a snarly but not bitey way. My Mom says they are both too old to learn to walk on a leash

I've expressed my fear that Reba will be unable to hear a car that will hit her but since cars go very slowly because it is a one lane dirt road, this is not effective with Mom.

I then suggested she get a dog whistle that Reba might be able to hear. A pet store clerk said the high range of hearing tends to go first and that Reba was unlikely to hear this.

Any suggestions?


I work at an animal shelter, and my fist dog was deaf, and really there isn't anything you can do. If your mother is comfortable with the way she is with this then that's what is probably gonna happen. A deaf dog usually learns hand commands very well, and if she is willing to put the time in to help Reba learn them then that would do great for her, and your mother may be happy for it. But there really is no way to avoid cars with a deaf dog.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 3:16:35 AM   
ARIES83


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Kali, I'm not sure how you could do anything
practical, to control or alert the dog off the leash
if it's got hearing loss, sorry I couldn't help.

-ARIES

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 3:26:37 AM   
ARIES83


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Peon,

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 3:37:24 AM   
epiphiny43


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Dogs learn at any age, they don't have egos about it like we do. Like kids, they will test the new situation so not being consistent gets nowhere.
Have a talk with Mom about how fun house training a new puppy will be and the joy of seeing all the neighbors at Reba's funeral.
Ask how much freedom you kids had when about as aware of dangers as Reba now is? Then show her the new 20-30ft spring rewinding walking leash you bought for Reba with the locking lever for any length you want. Reba gets a lot of freedom and does 4 times Mom's distance but is still safely leashed.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 4:32:45 PM   
chemeli


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I have a 11 years old blond labrador and so far, i've never had any problem with it. I dont trust him as far as letting him near young children without supervision (as history taught us, dogs are still dogs and for no reason, they can attack at random).

I dont get owners who KNOW they have a dangerous dog on their hands and still tell other owners that their safe?! In my neighborood, there are several dogs (who are leashed and others, unleashed, in spite of the useless complain we send to the city about it) who should be indoors at all time cause they are a danger to society and still, the owners are oblivious to this.

To the OP, sorry i had to rant, your post made me rethink all of those nice memories when my dog's throat has almost been teared to shreds by dogs of all sizes.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 5:05:34 PM   
Karmastic


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wow ARIES, thank you x 1000 for sharing your wonderful advice!!!

i have had similar issues because my dog is also super alpha, and furrows her neck/back hair anytime she's even mildly challenged. when she starts that shit, i grab her by the hair sticking up, and roll her on her back. and then i let the other dogs meet her.

re wagging tails - great observation. i would add that wagging isn't necessarily good. the tell TAIL sign is the attitude of the tip of their tail. when it's pointed up high, that's aggressive and/or defensive posturing. the higher it is, the more aggressive/defensive the dog is being.

good points on kicking. just the other day, i was kneeling down with my arms around two large alpha dogs enjoying a dog sandwich (mine, and my neighbors, who was sitting on his motorcycle, we were in the foothills above our houses, not a dog park). a medium size dog charged up to us. rather than let this smaller dog get mauled by the two large dogs, i grabbed each of the large dogs by their collars, and kicked the charging dog smack in the head, hard. it took a couple more charges and head kicks before it realized it was going to have to fight me before it ever got to the two dogs i was holding, and it gave up easily. one point here - i kinda have a lot of experience with dogs, and knew what i was doing. you have to be careful how you kick a dog, so as to not let it grab your foot! not that i've made a habit of kicking away dogs! in fact, i've never had to shew off a dog like that, but it was right for that specific situation.

one last bit of advice that worked for me well during the years when i had to visit many people's homes unannounced, and learned to deal with attacking dogs. if a dog is charging you, and there's no way to escape safely, the best thing to do is to go into attack mode yourself. if there's enough room, and the dog is charging you, charge the dog back. run towards them waving your hands wildly and screaming at them. this worked well, and the dog just ran away. most dogs are pussies, and are attacking out of fear or territory. the important point is that you allow the dog a place/manner to retreat to. cornered dogs are deadly, and you certainly don't want to do that anyway.

worst case, if dogs are attacking you, try to keep your cool, while also letting go of your inhibitions about hurting the dog(s). use anything at your disposal. i got attacked by 4 medium sized dogs, and swung my clipboard back and forth, smacking each of them in the face as they charged. i only got bit because one of them got behind me and connected with my leg before i could back out of there.

last piece of worst case advice - if you're being attacked and bitten by a dog, offer it up your hand. i know, seems counter-intuitive, but if you're going to be bitten anyway, better to be the hand. but once your hand is in the dog's mouth, wrap your fingers around it's jaw and yank down as hard as you can, and try to twist as well; if you do it right, you can twist it right to the ground on it's side. at the very least, you will convert the bite instinct into a gag instinct, and the dog's priority will shift to NOT having parts of you in it's mouth!

be animal about it, because the dog certainly isn't being "human" about it. oh, and don't let go of the dog's jaw until it submits, or it's owner takes control, else, you'll be bitten even more.


< Message edited by Karmastic -- 7/31/2012 5:21:06 PM >


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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 6:21:21 PM   
ARIES83


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Karmastic, I'm not sure if it's just me...
But every post you have made for aslong as I
can remember just says " [Awaiting Approval] "
in the actual text body of your post, whatever
you have been typing in reply in every post
is blocked or something and all your posts i've
seen, just says [ Awaiting Approval ], nothing
else...

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 6:23:17 PM   
VideoAdminTheta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Karmastic, I'm not sure if it's just me...
But every post you have made for aslong as I
can remember just says " [Awaiting Approval] "
in the actual text body of your post, whatever
you have been typing in reply in every post
is blocked or something and all your posts i've
seen, just says [ Awaiting Approval ], nothing
else...



This is a system glitch and being worked on. It should be corrected very soon.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 9:28:16 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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There is another option - but no one is going to want to hear it.

It's also extremely dangerous.

If for some reason you can't kick or have been knocked on the ground you shove your off arm as far into the attacking dogs mouth as possible and keep pressing. You need to be quick, when the dog backs off for a better bit you follow and keep pressing.

The idea here is to have your arm far enough in so that leverage doesn't take effect. The jaw muscles of the dogs mouth have no leverage at the back of the mouth and the gums are sensitive. You then use your main hand to deliver blows or press on pressure points - or snap its neck if need be.

This is a last ditch resort. I am not recommending it to anyone. You are basically sacrificing a limb to prevent more damage and there is a chance that the dog can hit an artery with this method which means you are dead.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 7/31/2012 10:24:47 PM   
ARIES83


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I would say, never intentionaly put your hand in
an aggressive dogs mouth under any circumstances


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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 8/1/2012 12:10:14 AM   
ARIES83


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Hey Karm, I can read you now!
Thanks for adding you experiences, I've been there with
my hand in a dogs mouth and wouldn't advise it.

The owner was running over to help, so I just grabbed
the dogs scruff and held him there, I couldn't bring
myself to gouge his eye... but I'd say that would probably
have been different had there been only me there.

Something I thought was funny, when the owner
dragged his dog away, my dog was firmly latched
onto the other dogs ass, watching my dog get dragged
along the ground because he wouldn't let go was classic.

-ARIES

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 8/1/2012 2:05:43 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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I do not have a dog, but some people downstairs have moved in with two a pitbull and a rotweiler, the latter went for me the last time I saw it. I have to be honest big dogs scare the crap out of me and I had no idea what to do in that situation so it is useful to read, I do hope I never have to kick one though, especially because I imagine the owner would kick me back.

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 8/1/2012 2:37:27 AM   
ARIES83


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It would probably be cruel as hell to pepper spray a dog,
but if you don't have a dog and these dogs the guy
downstairs has decided to attack you, you'd have some
serious problems.
If you think you might be at risk, I'd have to say it may
be worth getting a tiny pocket sized can just incase.
I think you can get keyring ones.

-ARIES

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 8/1/2012 3:10:33 AM   
LadyConstanze


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The problem is that once a dog was attacked by another dog severely, they tend to be dog aggressive, my male is too daft to retain that info and he will happily say hello to any other dog (including the usual butt sniffing), in case the other dog shows aggression, he just runs off and a big Dobie isn't easy to catch, so no problem at all. With the girl it's another story, she's also been bitten a lot (the vet said other dogs tend to attack dogs that are black more, nobody knows why and she was docked before we got her, so she can't even communicate with her tail to other dogs), unless she is familiar with the other dog, she doesn't like them to come near her (can't blame her, if a lot of my experiences would be being attacked by strange dogs, I'd possibly would not like them near me too) and will do a bit of snarling and posturing, if on the lead the fake attempts to lunge (oddly never strong enough to actually get away, more just the show "don't come near me, I'm fierce").

Always annoys me if I tell other dog owners that she doesn't deal well with strange dogs and she's scared that they go on about "their dog is friendly" even if the dog is obviously in attack position... What helps if the other dog doesn't seem to be too friendly is that I tell Kia to go down and position myself between her an the other dog, she knows she's not in control then, which takes the stress off her, also if she's laying down she's not perceived as a threat by another dog and doesn't expose her throat or belly, their most vulnerable parts. You can deflect a lot of potential bites by just making the dogs lay down, and oddly enough if I give her the command to go down, quite often the other dog also thinks it was a command for him, so you got 2 dogs on the ground - no aggression, domly voice is good for that...

There's one particularly nasty Staffy with equally nasty owner (prison tattoos, hoody and usually a can of beer, proud to have an aggressive dog and quite keen to intimidate little old ladies who walk their small dogs) who yells at everybody how his dog could kill their dog and they should get out of his way with a lot of effing and blinding, a lot of people avoid the park when he's there. I had to unleash her so that she could defend herself without being hampered by the lead, because that dog meant business, luckily Alf became alerted by the growling and got out of the pond, I had already whacked the dog with a heavy leather bag when lunged and ignored the owner who was yelling at me that he'd kill me for whacking his dog (guess I should have waited until he had chunks out of me and Kia and then apologise for not being palatable enough), so while Staffie was foaming and lunging, boy came from behind and bit the Staffie's arse, defending his pack. I never saw a dog jump that high and then shoot away like a cannon ball. My lot gave him a few parting barks but stuck with me.

I don't get the logic why people want aggressive dogs, even a placid dog will defend you... Kia is not even aggressive, she just prefers to stay away from dogs she doesn't know, it's a hell lot of work to do the proper dog introductions before they can play together and if a new dog joins in she'll come running back to me, if the dog follows her it's again the "Grrr, I don't know you, stay away from me" until proper introductions are made and she's sure that the dog just wants to play chase and not "bite the Dobie".

I'm seriously worried about her being bitten or attacked again, because dog aggression comes from bad experiences and it's really almost impossible to undo it with dogs. Since that bastarding Jack Russel almost gutted Alf and bit her hind leg, she really doesn't trust strange dogs unless they are Westies or Spaniels. Oddly enough inviting the dogs and their owners to our place seems to solve the problem, once they are in the house she'll even offer her toys and next time we meet outside it's "Hello friend, wanna play", it's just a bit impractical to invite the whole dog population of the town including owners to Sunday tea...

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 8/1/2012 2:58:11 PM   
ARIES83


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Thanks a lot ladyC, for sharing,
There seems to be a common theme of people
who have these aggressive dogs and not having
control of them, also being ignorant and close
minded.
Having an owner swearing his head off because
you just kicked his dog that had ran over and
started biting chunks out of your dog is all to
common. Everytime I say to myself I'm going to
walk away and not get drawn into a swearing
match... But i'm still working on that.

-ARIES

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RE: For Dog Walkers (Dog Attack Advice) - 8/1/2012 4:19:03 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chemeli

..........In my neighborood, there are several dogs (who are leashed and others, unleashed, in spite of the useless complain we send to the city about it) who should be indoors at all time cause they are a danger to society and still, the owners are oblivious to this.


Rather than letting those dogs with bad behavior keep bottling up their frustration indoors, they should be walked all the more by people who could train them better.

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