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ORIGINAL: lizi

Another excellent post above me from SexyThoughts. More gloom and doom to follow now...

OP, there are a shit ton of people who read these forums. Most of them engage in some BDSM practices or are thinking of it. Some of them have lots of experience, some not. We don't like anyone reading to get the idea that all the things they read here are safe to do- unless they are. If something is not on the safer side of things, people generally speak up so everyone knows there is risk involved. The whole idea of BDSM involves some risk, we all know this, but it's nice to be able to do it another day without being irreparably maimed. Sorry you thought it was a place like a tots softball game where everyone gets cheered wildly for just making it up to the plate to bat. We're adults engaging in real life practices that can hurt someone, we like everyone to know what they are risking and how to do it as safely as possible.

It's obvious by your attitude you don't know shit about what you'd like to do, it would be irresponsible for anyone with real life knowledge wishing to post on this thread to simply cheer you on. Of course you always get the people who say "I've done x, y, and z for years and never had any problems!" Which might be true and the next time they do it they'll have an oops moment. I'm willing to bet that David Carradine had a lot of auto-erotic asphyxiation experiences up till the one where he died as a result.

You saying that you're building up to the scenarios you explained is useless, because the scenarios involve unsafe elements. It doesn't matter if you build up to them or not. That's just stupid to think that locking yourself up for longer periods of time eliminates the danger, magically changes the human body into something that now tolerates new limits, and that with practice all the risk of doing it alone is now whisked away.

Carry on with your plan if you want to. One thing though....not one person came in to say they were into it to as you thought might happen. What might that say about your situation? So every person that expressed concern here is just full of gloominess? Really? I don't see anyone lining up on the other side of it except for yourself. Something to think about...

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Part of the intrigue for it is that it is no way out bondage, that's it. Not many tops/Masters out there who would stop at bondage/control without trying to F, torture, fist, etc. the slave, if the slave was with them in person. Why would a Master just tie someone up in real time? What does he get out of it?

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ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

What would a "Master" get out of letting you tie yourself up long distance if to do nothing but give you a code later to allow yourself to let yourself out? Unless you are paying him, I can't think of anything. He certainly isn't controlling anything so there really is no dominance involved. As a top, he isn't really doing anything either except punching in a code to a keyboard (might as well be playing a game on Facebook then).

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ORIGINAL: HOUDINI1961
WOW! Never expected all this gloom and doom. Thought I'd get more "Cool, I'm into it too!".

If we didn't give a shit about you, we'd be saying "go for it". Just because you don't like the risks, doesn't mean they magically don't exist. And the whole point of handcuffs is they stay locked, no matter what thoughts are in your head.


it does appreciate everyone's opinion, it was just kind of shocked with all the "nays". it will definitely rethink it. And that is the turn-on about cuffs/shackles, etc., they stay LOCKED. That "no way out" feeling is a high.
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it should have stated the whole thing would be a progression.

So you're progressing from safe to dangerous, and we point out the dangerous bit, and your reply is it's a progression so it starts off safe... the whole thing must be safe? I'm not sure that's a reassuring answer.

The problem with progressions, like sloping swimming pools, is that once you get too deep and you've removed your ability to swim, you need someone to rescue you.

This is true, but progression as far as months down the road. Who knows? it might never happen, it or him may get bored with the whole thing and end it before we got to the hogtie.

And yes, it should have a rescue plan. it does have a room mate, but he is an ex, so don't want to involve him. You got it thinking and it's landlord who is a kinky dude lives behind us. it can arrange something with him in case of emergencies. it probably should buy an extra Clejuso key and give it to him, just in case the internet goes down as someone mentioned. Comcast can be a pain sometimes. it would just have to be dishonest and not tell the Master it has an extra key that the landlord is holding for it.
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Starting with handcuffs in front an hour or two during the day here and there. Then behind the back, etc.
Working up to a possible hogtie.
it would not do a hogtie overnight, if ever, if it did not have some experience with it during the day for a short period of time. it also wants to build up trust with this Master also.

As the problem is the hogtie, unless you're a vampire, the time of day you're hogtied isn't the issue.
OK, and what happens if your master breaks your trust when you're hogtied? Or your internet goes out?
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Yes, the hogtie does bring problems as it won't be able to phone its landlord when hogtied.

Not many tops/Masters out there who would stop at bondage/control without trying to F, torture, fist, etc. the slave, if the slave was with them in person.

Maybe in the cyber world it's nothing but sex. But in the real world, you can probably find a someone who'll do it for practical stuff, if you mow their lawn or demonstrate some form of added value to their lives. A lot of people own leashed dogs that they don't fuck or torture, to get their enjoyment from their company. Don't over estimate your real world sex appeal.

Well, you have to admit most men are pigs. it was a massage therapist and it can vouch for that one. Most men think with their d*ck. Most of the come-ons during the massage were from married straight men.

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Why would a Master just tie someone up in real time? What does he get out of it?

I'm going to go out on limb and say you've never been to a Shibari demonstration in your life, have you?
Other reasons
Because they're trading something you like for something they'll like later on?
Because a restrained subbie getting off on the restraint, is asymmetric kink for the other person. They can catch up on their paperwork, read books, do stuff other than kink
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This Master gets off on the control issue. He is into heavy metal, inescapable bondage. He has had someone in handcuffs for 72 hours straight.(it was agreed upon not forced). No have never been to a Shibari demonstration, but love that type of artistic bondage. it is not really an exhibitionist and has never went to bondage parties, etc.

Never thought of that, it would be exciting for it to be chained up in real time and then ignored by the Master while he reads, etc. as you mentioned.


Also this way, it does not have to worry about what the Master looks like, smells like(cigarettes, etc.) It is more or less self bondage, where there is no way out until the Master gives it the code. Like it said before, it would have to trust this Master bigtime. It has this Master's emails, phone number, Skype, etc. already.

Awesome, all those contact details mean shit if he says No. Or he hasn't paid his bills and loses power. Or his mother kicks him off the computer.

Actually it is a turn on if the Master says no. As long as it's added on hours, not days. it will look up the Genchi Genbutsu

(in reply to SexyThoughts)

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ORIGINAL: HOUDINI1961

Yes, the hogtie does bring problems as it won't be able to phone its landlord when hogtied.

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ORIGINAL: HOUDINI1961
it does appreciate everyone's opinion, it was just kind of shocked with all the "nays". it will definitely rethink it. And that is the turn-on about cuffs/shackles, etc., they stay LOCKED. That "no way out" feeling is a high.

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This is true, but progression as far as months down the road. Who knows? it might never happen, it or him may get bored with the whole thing and end it before we got to the hogtie.

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And yes, it should have a rescue plan. it does have a room mate, but he is an ex, so don't want to involve him. You got it thinking and it's landlord who is a kinky dude lives behind us. it can arrange something with him in case of emergencies. it probably should buy an extra Clejuso key and give it to him, just in case the internet goes down as someone mentioned. Comcast can be a pain sometimes. it would just have to be dishonest and not tell the Master it has an extra key that the landlord is holding for it.

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Yes, the hogtie does bring problems as it won't be able to phone its landlord when hogtied.

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Well, you have to admit most men are pigs. it was a massage therapist and it can vouch for that one. Most men think with their d*ck. Most of the come-ons during the massage were from married straight men.

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This Master gets off on the control issue. He is into heavy metal, inescapable bondage. He has had someone in handcuffs for 72 hours straight.(it was agreed upon not forced). No have never been to a Shibari demonstration, but love that type of artistic bondage. it is not really an exhibitionist and has never went to bondage parties, etc.

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Never thought of that, it would be exciting for it to be chained up in real time and then ignored by the Master while he reads, etc. as you mentioned.

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Actually it is a turn on if the Master says no. As long as it's added on hours, not days.

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it will look up the Genchi Genbutsu.

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Maybe it should move into the realm of chastity, there are online key holders for that.

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ORIGINAL: SexyThoughts

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This is true, but progression as far as months down the road. Who knows? it might never happen, it or him may get bored with the whole thing and end it before we got to the hogtie.

I'm still stuck trying to visualize how you'd move to where the key is when your wrists and ankles are cuffed together?
Let alone getting your trembling sweaty fingers on it, and getting orientated correctly and into the keyhole behind your back?

Seriously, if I flicked a handcuff key near someone hogcuffed and told them to get themselves out in 10minutes. I'd estimate about a less than 50% success rate, assuming the keyholes are pointing down (keyholes on the upside can't be reached by the fingers at all). If it's after a scene and they were inflexible, tired, cramping, lubed or subspacing, I'd drop the success rate to less than 5%.
With those odds, there's no way I'd suggest this as solo play.
The second person doesn't need any skills more than holding the key, and putting it the handcuffs if you safe word or start to "look funny"

Well, the way it envisioned it was Clejuso's on wrists behind back, ankle cuffs cuffed with the chain wrapped around the ankles and then a chain connecting the two.

So the chain connecting the two would be locked with a padlock. So would just need to put the key in the padlock to get out of the hogcuff and then work from there in getting released. It has a padlock where the key easily goes in. It even has a padlock that opens with a key card, like at a hotel. Just slide the card through the padlocks slot.

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And yes, it should have a rescue plan. it does have a room mate, but he is an ex, so don't want to involve him. You got it thinking and it's landlord who is a kinky dude lives behind us. it can arrange something with him in case of emergencies. it probably should buy an extra Clejuso key and give it to him, just in case the internet goes down as someone mentioned. Comcast can be a pain sometimes. it would just have to be dishonest and not tell the Master it has an extra key that the landlord is holding for it.

Why would your "master" be offended by a safety step? If he would rather play unsafe than safe, run for your fucking life. It's that simple.

Actually he is pretty considerate. He wanted me to practice getting myself out of handcuffs behind my back, many times before he was to lock it up.

And then he wanted me to practice opening the keysafe(that has the handcuff keys in it) with my hands cuffed behind my back. He is the one that delayed locking it up until I practiced those two things.

But keeping relevant information secret from him is bad. If you don't trust him with the truth about a shared scene involving your shared body, and think you need to lie, by omission or otherwise, about relevant info, you to have got a real problem dynamic that needs to be solved before the scene starts.

scenario first.

If you want to reassure him that the second keys not been unused, put it in a ziploc bag, superglue the opening so it can only be torn open, and it's now provably unused.

That's an excellent idea. He can even see the sealed bag via webcam.

Personally, I've got a $20, 3foot pair of bolt cutters that's my emergency key when I play with people in handcuffs, chains and padlocks. Cuffs are cheaper to replace than human lives, in most countries.

Plus you can use it to cut chains to exactly fit a body, when you make full body, multi padlock harnesses.

Yes, that is a good idea to have bolt cutters, just in case. Woof, a full body multi padlock harness! Would love to see that!

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Well, you have to admit most men are pigs. it was a massage therapist and it can vouch for that one. Most men think with their d*ck. Most of the come-ons during the massage were from married straight men.

"Most" not "all". You can't pick your family, but you can pick your friends.

If you don't trust your friends not to commit illegal acts on you when your helpless, you might want to improve your circle of friends. The benefits will extend past mere kink scenes.

No, it meant that it's room mate is an ex. And he still has feelings for it so don't want to give him any more reason to start something up again. Plus when we were together, he was the slave!

Failing that, research negotiation, pop down to your local munch and chat to people who have built up enough trust and mana in the scene, not to ruin it abusing you.

it has gone on the RECON site and have talked with locals. All it gets is "How much abuse can you take?", "How tight is it's hole?", "I want to use you", etc.

it went to a few Bondage Club meetings, all it got was every "yucko" coming on to it, you know..."fresh meat". it should mention it was duct taped and raped years ago and has not had anal sex much since.

Wow, there you go! it's got trust issues! it actually feels safer tied up by someone in another state rather than someone who is standing right over it! WOW, just had my own shrink session!

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Never thought of that, it would be exciting for it to be chained up in real time and then ignored by the Master while he reads, etc. as you mentioned.

People make better pets than animals. Try stroking a person the way you'd stroke a cat sometime.

it once crawled into a German Sheperd's cage while it was dogsitting. it thought it would be rock hard in a cage but instead, it had a feeling of comfort and security. The dog however was giving it dirty looks!

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Actually it is a turn on if the Master says no. As long as it's added on hours, not days.

And what if it is for days or longer e.g "No really does mean No" ? You're playing solo, as the top in the room you need a plan for all answers, even the ones you don't want to hear. Especially the ones you don't want to hear.

No, he wouldn't do days longer. His sessions with other guys were that, the slave would agree to bondage from say 6 to 12 hours. The Master would pick the number hours, write it down on a paper and put it away. The slave once locked never knew if it was getting unlocked in 6 or 8 or 12 hours, etc.

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it will look up the Genchi Genbutsu.

I can save you time, it fits in 2 paragraph's in the 600 page Toyota Way because it's considered so fundamentally important that they're not subtle. .
But it comes down to; when people under you mention a problem, you need to leave your nice desk with all its theory, and walk out to the messy factory and look at it's reality. Look at where it fits into things. Look at the people around it. Turn that problem from a mental reconstruction to an actual picture of reality.
Because you miss the full picture if you sit at your desk and hear what people want you to hear about a problem. They may not have your best interest at heart, they may miss things, or not put them in context.

Yes, it does have a tendency not to see the big picture with much of life.

So as a top, you need to be in the play space to know what it's capable of both good and bad.

It's like you not mentioning the landlords 2nd key to your "master". He's unaware of that option, so if you can't get the first key to work, he might call the police over to rescue you.
Making decisions with biased 2nd hand info causes problems.

That is true, better to be upfront and honest. it could give him the landlord's phone number also as the safety net.

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Maybe it should move into the realm of chastity, there are online key holders for that.

Chastity keyholders tend to keep the key at their place, and you have to come to them to be unlocked. Unlike chastityware, handcuffs fuckup your ability to go through doors, drive, expose your wrists to vanillas, and otherwise transport yourself.

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ORIGINAL: Delilya

What if Master drops dead of a heart attack? And no one notices. How long could you stay bound and do you have a way to make an emergency call? Are you prepared for the fire department to have to come in and cut you loose?

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ORIGINAL: HOUDINI1961

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ORIGINAL: Delilya
What if Master drops dead of a heart attack? And no one notices. How long could you stay bound and do you have a way to make an emergency call? Are you prepared for the fire department to have to come in and cut you loose?

Sure! All those beefy fire fighters lifting it up while hogtied and carrying it out of the house. Better than a wet dream! LOL!