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RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 5:16:49 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		"If 23 Million people are out of work and unemployment is 8.254%, that means that there are 278.6 Million people in the US of working age. (23,000,000/.08254)
As there are about 310 Million people in the US counting children, retired people and the infirm, I'm calling bullshit on your 23 Million out of work figure because there are a lot more than 32 million (310M - 278M) in the US that are either under 18 years old, infirm or retired.
Who was your math teacher anyway?"

I'm still waiting for Sanity to tell us who his math teacher was.


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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 6:53:11 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Hill, you are aware that the official unemployment rate number only counts very specific sets of the unemployed, right?  Other sets, say people whose benefits have run out, and are now subsisting on the welfare system, or those whose depression over being out of work has led them onto the Social Security disability system, or those who have moved into the underground economy entirely, aren't in the mix, so your math is nothing but a giant plaster bucket of shit set, on the side of the road.


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 7:23:55 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Hill, you are aware that the official unemployment rate number only counts very specific sets of the unemployed, right?  Other sets, say people whose benefits have run out, and are now subsisting on the welfare system, or those whose depression over being out of work has led them onto the Social Security disability system, or those who have moved into the underground economy entirely, aren't in the mix, so your math is nothing but a giant plaster bucket of shit set, on the side of the road.



I am aware of it. I was only using Sanity's numbers and showing that it is impossible to have 8.254% unemployment with 23 Million people out of work with our present population. If you also have a humiliation fetish, I'm perfectly willing to feed it.

ETA Nice Strawman

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 8/3/2012 7:28:21 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 7:29:13 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

Raising taxes. That's the hard one as government often does that without the requisite spending cuts. People are tired of that shit.


Exactly the opposite. Federal government for the past 32 years has CUT taxes without funding them.

When they do, STATE and LOCAL governments raise their taxes disproportionately to cover the short fall. Reality is, somethings are done more effectively at the federal level. But since people response emotionally instead of to reality, they keep voting to make things worse--and want to do so again!

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 9:17:29 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Attention students

Senators hold power, especially on committees, and more especially when they are in the majority or even when there are tight margins

This concludes your lesson in basic government for today

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Franks refusal to allow Bush


Ah. So Franks was in charge of the country.

Where was the President?



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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 9:29:03 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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"Dow Posts Longest Weekly Rally Since October on Jobs Data"


http://bloom.bg/NreY8T



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-03/dow-posts-longest-weekly-rally-since-october-after-jobs-report.html



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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 9:29:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		So what does the President do?

And what did Franks do for 2001-2007 when he was in the minority?

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 9:41:15 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Well, Mitt`s gotta plan.......but he doesn`t want to say what that plan is......he actually said, we should "trust him"....


Maybe,......about as far as I can throw rich......

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 10:13:06 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
it is impossible to have 8.254% unemployment with 23 Million people out of work with our present population.


It is when you happily mix apples and oranges, Hillwilliam.  When honest people discuss these things...

quote:

  The so-called U3 measure of unemployment is the one most people know. It shows 8.3% joblessness, and 12.9 million people with no job.

But the government also releases what it calls the U6 measure — one that takes into account discouraged workers and those who, as the Labor Department puts it, are "marginally attached" to the labor force.

What does U6 show? It shows an alarming 15% unemployment rate — with 23 million people having no job. Worse, the U6 measure of unemployment is rising as the economy slows down.


http://news.investors.com/article/621034/201208031859/real-unemployment-much-higher-than-white-house-claims.htm?p=full

Well gee, Hillwilliam.  Who was your math teacher, if you think you can pick the pieces of your equation like the options on a chinese menu? 

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 10:22:31 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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"World’s Richest Gain $19 Billion as Stocks Surge on Jobs"


"The 40 richest people on the planet added $19.4 billion to their collective net worth yesterday after an increase in U.S. jobs and positive earnings reports erased losses sustained earlier in the week"


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-03/world-s-richest-gain-19-billion-as-stocks-surge-on-jobs.html

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 11:00:35 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Tazzy has been quoting U6 numbers for a couple of years. SO its actually not a new revelation to anyone who takes notice.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 11:08:19 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Well, Lucy, the revelation seems new enough to some. At least when it suits them to be ignorant.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: 8.3% - 8/3/2012 11:43:49 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
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"Payroll Gains Exceeding Forecasts Signal Sustained U.S. Growth"


Employers in the U.S. added more workers than forecast in July, easing concern the three-year expansion is faltering. Bigger payroll gains may be necessary to reduce an unemployment rate that climbed to a five-month high.

Employment increased by 163,000 last month, helped by a pickup at automakers and health-care providers, after a revised 64,000 June advance, Labor Department data showed yesterday in Washington. The median estimate of 89 economists surveyed by Bloomberg called for a rise of 100,000. The jobless rate, based on a separate survey of households, climbed to 8.3 percent.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-04/payroll-gains-exceeding-forecasts-signal-sustained-u-s-growth.html


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 1:09:08 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Well, Lucy, the revelation seems new enough to some. At least when it suits them to be ignorant.


I prefer the U6 numbers because its a more in depth measure of the unemployment market as a whole, including those who have given up and those who are underemployed.

Having said that...

In Feb 2009, U6 was 15.1%.. it peaked at 17.2% in October 2009.. and its back to 15.0%.

To give people who dont look at links a perspective...

U6 was 7.4 in Feb 2001.... and 15.1 in Feb 2009....

Ladies and gentlemen... Unemployment doubled in those years.

http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp

Blaming unemployment on Obama is a joke.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 2:13:00 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59




"Payroll Gains Exceeding Forecasts Signal Sustained U.S. Growth"


Employers in the U.S. added more workers than forecast in July, easing concern the three-year expansion is faltering. Bigger payroll gains may be necessary to reduce an unemployment rate that climbed to a five-month high.

Employment increased by 163,000 last month, helped by a pickup at automakers and health-care providers, after a revised 64,000 June advance, Labor Department data showed yesterday in Washington. The median estimate of 89 economists surveyed by Bloomberg called for a rise of 100,000. The jobless rate, based on a separate survey of households, climbed to 8.3 percent.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-04/payroll-gains-exceeding-forecasts-signal-sustained-u-s-growth.html



Every month these numbers come out, and every month they revise the previous months numbers. There's nothing to be excited about here because in a month the numbers will be revised downward. The only question every month is "How wrong are they this month?" The revision of Junes numbers lowered last months employment figures by 20%. That means that all the unemployment figures from last month are wrong by a significant amount... This is not good news for Obummer, which is why the drive-by media tends to ignore it instead of report it with the attention it deserves.

163,000 jobs was not enough to compensate for the growing work force. If it was, then the unemployment rate would not have increased. Since the 163,000 employment figure will be revised downward next month, as it always is, that also means that the unemployment figure for the month of July will rise. This will not be reported on. It never is.

The idea thats getting a lot of spin is that this is a positive for Obummer and the Dumb-o-crats and that somehow increased unemployment is the measure of economic success. That dog won't hunt come November.

-SD-

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 4:11:13 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

The republic of california is still one of the ten largest economies in the world.


I never knew that. Do you have a link to share?

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 6:29:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
it is impossible to have 8.254% unemployment with 23 Million people out of work with our present population.


It is when you happily mix apples and oranges, Hillwilliam.  When honest people discuss these things...

quote:

  The so-called U3 measure of unemployment is the one most people know. It shows 8.3% joblessness, and 12.9 million people with no job.

But the government also releases what it calls the U6 measure — one that takes into account discouraged workers and those who, as the Labor Department puts it, are "marginally attached" to the labor force.

What does U6 show? It shows an alarming 15% unemployment rate — with 23 million people having no job. Worse, the U6 measure of unemployment is rising as the economy slows down.


http://news.investors.com/article/621034/201208031859/real-unemployment-much-higher-than-white-house-claims.htm?p=full

Well gee, Hillwilliam.  Who was your math teacher, if you think you can pick the pieces of your equation like the options on a chinese menu? 


You just changed the numbers. I'll type this slooooooooooooooooooooowly so you can understand.
Sanity claimed 8.254% unemployment.
He also claimed 23 million out of work.
I showed that one or both of those numbers must be wrong.

Guess what? You just did too.
I sure hope your buddy is proud of the fact that you also showed he is incorrect.

As for mixing apples and oranges, blame your partner in wingnutism for that. He's the one who put the numbers out there.

Keep those strawmen coming.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 7:42:37 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

The republic of california is still one of the ten largest economies in the world.


I never knew that. Do you have a link to share?


A link?  From Thompson?  You'll be waiting a while, Boi.

If we take the individual states, and compare them as if they were countries though, yes, California, all by itself, is in the top 10.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California

Wikipedia needs an update, since we have recently fallen to number 9.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/4/2012 8:04:03 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 8:02:53 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You just changed the numbers.


I changed nothing.  You are taking the U3 rate, and the U6 number for your "math." You didn't show either of them to be wrong, merely that they are different, which any dumbass douchbag should be able to puzzle out immediately, since the U3 and U6 are calculated differently. 

If Sanity lined them up in precisely that way for you, fine, but since you are all semantical and shit elsewhere, hold yourself to the same standard, and go find the snip of Sanity placing the ducks in just the perfect order for you.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: 8.3% - 8/4/2012 8:03:36 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		And dont forget the u6 rate is about where W left it.

And it is a statistical number like a poll, and may or may not have any real world meaning.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/4/2012 8:05:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 80
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