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Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 9:34:28 AM   
TheHeretic


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916,643 people.  Those are the voters who are actually going to decide the election in November, if we accept what the "experts" are saying.

Who are they?  Where are they?  The New Yorker reports, and it isn't pretty.


August 3, 2012Searching for the Undecided Voter
Posted by Elizabeth Kolbert  

quote:



Undecided voters tend to get a bad rap...


Bartels and Vavreck’s research suggests that this rap rests on a solid foundation. The undecideds, they write, “are rather less knowledgeable about politics, and much more likely to say they follow news and public affairs ‘only now and then’ or ‘hardly at all.’ (Almost 40 percent are unsure which party currently has more members in the House of Representatives, and another 20 percent wrongly answered that it was the Democrats.)”



Less than a million politically disengaged people, and they'll have three options.  Obama, Romney, or stay home and play on the Xbox?

I hope the pundits are wrong.  One way or another, I think the country is best served by a clear, and decisive outcome.
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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 9:42:36 AM   
mnottertail


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http://www.electoral-vote.com/

here is the survey of actual electoral voters.....I dunno.  I don't believe it is gonna be so close like that.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 9:59:07 AM   
TheHeretic


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Good information, Ron.  The spending chart was a cool bonus.  I think the horrors of needing photo id are a bit overblown, though.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 10:03:04 AM   
mnottertail


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I dont care about photo ID if the ones who want it will pay for it and see everybody gets on it on their dime, even the ones they struck off the roles in such states as florida and ohio and so on for very untoward reason.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 10:27:02 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont care about photo ID if the ones who want it will pay for it


Anybody who is unable to come up with $18 can pick up a voucher at the welfare office, or a social services agency, very easily. You need one of those at all sorts of places, and to do all sorts of things.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 11:21:24 AM   
YSG


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$18 to be able to vote? Sounds like a poll tax to me.

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Our duty is to hold ourselves responsible to the people. Every word, every act and every policy must conform to the people's interests, and if mistakes occur, they must be corrected - that is what being responsible to the people means- Mao Zedong

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 11:36:36 AM   
Musicmystery


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However it's painted, it's a deliberate obstacle to voting.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:02:34 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG

$18 to be able to vote? Sounds like a poll tax to me.


No.  The $18 is an estimate of what the fee is to get a photo ID (YMMV).  If it was a special, single purpose id, then you might call it that, and have a point I could agree with.  Since you need photo ID to legally do all sorts of things, then no, it's nothing like a poll tax.  Requiring ID to check in at the polls is an obligation to prove that you are the person whose ballot you are picking up.

If it should happen that a person without ID should go get it in order to vote, they'll still find all sorts of other uses for it.



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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:06:17 PM   
Owner59


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"Undecided Voter"......



Every time Mitten`s opens his mouth and makes noises......there`s less and less of them....


Remember Mitt`s comment about how good Jewish folks were at business(the clueless fuck) and how Palestinians were poor by their own hand?


Without backing off of his insults of brown people.....Mitt said there was a similar situation between the US and Mexico.

If that get`s out......and I think it will......he can forget about getting the Hispanic vote.




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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:07:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

However it's painted, it's a deliberate obstacle to voting.


I would change that just a bit, Muse.

However it's painted, it's a deliberate obstacle to vote fraud.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:08:24 PM   
Winterapple


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FR
No one should have to pay a dime or have
to jump through more hoops than a trained
poodle to vote. It's an obstruction tactic.

Undecided voters drive me up a tree.
Make up your mind already pick a team,
write in a whackjob or better yet keep
your dithering ass at home.

It's really on the undecided in the states
that are up for grabs that have any influence
in how things go. They play a bigger
part in some elections than others.
I don't see them as playing a major
part in this one. People who know
what team they're on but choose to
sit the election out be it out of laziness
or indifference to their parties candidate
will have, I think a bigger influence than
the undecideds this year.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:10:03 PM   
joether


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Voter ID, as its been said in the pass will prove to be unconstitutional (as a violation of the 4th Amendment). We'll watch as Republicans throw tens of millions of tax dollars and their own money trying to defend the issue in the courts. Ultimately, the concept will fail.

quote:

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Right there, in black and white. Unless the law enforcement believes I have done something against the law, and can state the probable cause, can check my ID. Which is why when your stopped by an officer in your car, you can ask "Why am I being stopped, officer?" And they, according to the laws of the US Constitution, have to explain. And officer could just stop you on the side of the street, and demand ID without cause. But they could, if you closely matched the discription of a fugitive that was seen in the local area.

Even at the polling location, one is considered "...secure in their persons, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seirzures." Or have you been stripped searched...EVERY TIME....you went to vote? How often do you see the police walk up to those in the voting line and demand to see whats in their pockets or purses? And if the order is refuse, arrest them? It doesnt happen....unless....the officer has probable cause (which has to stand up to a court decision).

According to the 4th Amendment, there is no reasonable justification for an officer to see my photo ID. They didnt require photo ID of the state's residents after the Revolutionary War was fought, did they?

Why should I have to pay $18 to help fund the conservative's obessive-compulsive paranoia and delusionment of voter fraud? In the last election (2008), there were like 13 confirmed cased of voter fraud....nationwide! And since that time, conservatives have failed over many attempts to show this number is even approaching 100 let alone a few hundred thousand needed to switch a vote. So why should I have to pay to prove I'm who and where I say I am and live? I dont have to prove anything until someone shows EVIDENCE and FACTS to the contrary. Which means, its up to someone else to show the BURDEN OF PROOF that I am guilty of something. And even then, I STILL dont have to show any ID under the 5th Amendment (if I wasnt who I said I was, nor lived where I said I did).

All the Photo ID law does is say The State accuses you, without any evidence or proof of wrong doing, of a crime and you, the citizen, must prove your innocence BEFORE being allowed to do your civil duty (i.e. vote). Last I checked in the USA, a person is considered INNOCENT until proven GUILTY.....in a court of law! But apparently in the conservative version of America, they follow the same 'police' standards as TROOPS: "All suspects are GUILTY....otherwise they wouldnt be suspected."

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:21:13 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG
$18 to be able to vote? Sounds like a poll tax to me.

No.  The $18 is an estimate of what the fee is to get a photo ID (YMMV).  If it was a special, single purpose id, then you might call it that, and have a point I could agree with.  Since you need photo ID to legally do all sorts of things, then no, it's nothing like a poll tax.  Requiring ID to check in at the polls is an obligation to prove that you are the person whose ballot you are picking up.

If it should happen that a person without ID should go get it in order to vote, they'll still find all sorts of other uses for it.


And for about $50-100 one could get a pretty good fake ID. I'm surprised conservatives have never thought of this stuff, even though its been around for decades. Oh, forgot, most conservative either didnt or failed out of college! Since college bars TRAIN their employe----er---minions, to spot the fake IDs from the real ones. How much would it cost to train EVERY poll worker in spotting a fake ID from the real article? And checking everyone, cus according to the conservative philosophy, NOT ONE can be trusted with saying where they live and who they are (but we do trust them without ID's to buy firearms....in stockpiles!).

How will this effect the line of those behind them, waiting to vote (and also go through this draconian system of 'checks and balances')? With this speed up or slow down the process?


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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:27:22 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

However it's painted, it's a deliberate obstacle to voting.


I would change that just a bit, Muse.

However it's painted, it's a deliberate obstacle to vote fraud.


Then taxpayers should pick up the tab.

Unless it's not worth it. Then it should be scrapped.

Which?

Because otherwise, it's "Hey, you want to vote, you pay the fee."

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:29:21 PM   
TheHeretic


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Strip search?  Really, Joether?   Hysterical, much?



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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:30:55 PM   
Musicmystery


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People who wanted a strip search could pay for one as an option.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 12:42:45 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Then taxpayers should pick up the tab.



They do, Muse, right along with the people who donate to charitable service organizations.  Photo ID is an essential item to function in society, and easy access exists for people who really can't come up with the nominal fee, whether those people are interested in voting or not. 

Anything else, or will you now be joining the symbolic protest where people will wear their ID in a clear plastic case hung 'round the neck, when they go vote?

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 1:55:21 PM   
Musicmystery


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Since my responses to your spin are obvious, I'll save the typing for actual discussions.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 1:57:12 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Strip search?  Really, Joether?   Hysterical, much?


Not even as remotely as you are on this topic. Just stating that voter ID laws lack any critical thought to how easily it can and will be challenged in the courts. And ultimately found unconstitionial at the US Supreme Court. How much will be spent defending the law before than?

If its 'ok' to pry into someone's papers and effects without probable cause of voter fraud, its 'ok' to strip search them too.

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RE: Searching for the Undecided Voter - 8/4/2012 2:14:04 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
They do, Muse, right along with the people who donate to charitable service organizations.  Photo ID is an essential item to function in society, and easy access exists for people who really can't come up with the nominal fee, whether those people are interested in voting or not. 


Yes, we should bow into the paranoid delusions of conservatives over a concept that doesnt really exist in even the most remote of concepts. We had a few threads like this one a few months ago. In each and every one of those threads, not one conservative poster could give reliable information, nor actual facts, that voter fraud was anywhere in the same universe as they stated it was, to affect the actual vote. So yet again, we'll have....another....thread, that will evetually conclude the same as the previous ones: voter ID laws are pushed by fearfully ignorant and foolish folks that based their delusions on FOX New type figures, rather than anything legitimate or factual (and violating the 4th amendment for hundreds of millions).

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