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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 5:42:24 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

I'm not prepared to call the guy a narcissist based on what has been presented in this thread so far


Nor am I. The OP reminded me of my situation, which happened to be with a narcissist.


You? Or him?

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 5:43:19 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I commend you both for seeming like you want to try to save your marriage instead of just rushing judgment with each other. Have you both thought about marriage counseling with a therapist or the head of your church if you belong to one? It could help you both with the communication process and have a third party who holds no bias with either of you.


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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 5:43:36 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

The 5 Don't Do's for a Narcissist are really scary.


I had a real eureka moment when I read this and realized why none of my I statements had ever worked:

I (never mention the fact that you are a separate, independent entity, narcissists regard others as extensions of their selves, their internalization processes were screwed up and they did not differentiate properly)

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 6:47:47 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		When I said "that's the one you have to own" it was meant as a universal you; it was not directed at you in particular, I so apologize if that was not clear.

Actually, I was focused on my own danged self who took far too long to get that I could not change my ex, even though I really, really wanted to. I think most of us have been in relationships with people we truly loved, yet there were things about them that needed to change. And staying in relationships hoping people will change is almost always counterproductive, b/c people only change when they want to change.


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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 7:03:32 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
However, what do you do when you are confronted with talking to someone (male) that admits to being a lousy communicator?  Someone that comes right out and says he does not want to discuss problems, emotions, or anything that could be upsetting?  NOT talking is not an option in this case, there is much that needs to be said and discussed. 

I dont know what you will do about it but my ex would refuse to discuss things. And I consider myself easy going and not the tantrum dish-throwing type.. If i would sit down next to him and try to talk to him he immediately would literally stand up and walk out of the room without saying a word.. I finally gave up and told him we were thru.. I don't regret doing that in the least, I would rather live alone than live like that..

I wish you the best in finding a way with your non-communicator..



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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 8:10:55 PM   
SlipSlidingAway


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Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		As most of you have mentioned, this has, indeed, been going on for a while now.  The thing is, in the beginning, it was a lot easier.  We had less collective problems.  We might not have communicated much better than we do now, I'm really not sure, but it was not something that jumped right out at me, either.  I accepted that he and I were on different planes when it came to sharing feelings and talking about the things that bothered us.  However, since not much was bothering us, I did not realize he would be unable to do so if things came up.  I really thought that, as we got closer, shared more of our life together, it would make it easier for us to talk.  Not so much that I thought I would change him, I just thought that we would grow together, and that would be a natural result.  This was my second marriage, the first ended amicably and my ex was one of my best friends until he passed away of cancer last year. I also had a 6 year D/s relationship.  Still friends with my previous Dom as well.  With both of those relationships we became better communicators over time.  I truly expected much of the same this time around. 

Is he a narcissist?  I don't know.  I don't know enough about narcissists to really have an answer.  I do know that he does not accept constructive criticism, from ~anyone~.  If another person makes a suggestion, be it his boss, his father, or a friend- he tends to get very defensive.  As noted though, that too is worse if he is under stress.  However, life has stress, and the way he behaves when the heat is on can be fairly unpleasant; enough so that our 6 year old has commented on it and tells him that he is behaving badly.

Why did we get married?  Not the best of reasons, but because I was pregnant.  He'd already been living with me.  It seemed the 'right' thing to do at the time.  The responsible thing.  And, before I get lectured too much, I was told by medical professionals I would never be able to have more children- even with that diagnosis I was still using birth control, just in case.  Guess what?  Sometimes, things happen no matter how many precautions you take.  

When I took my vows, I meant them.  I don't think marriage is something to throw away lightly.  It's a big deal to me.  I ~think~ it is to him, too.  Although, when we start looking at what he does versus what he says?  Well, now, I'm really not as sure of that as I had been.  

@littlewonder- I have asked him to go to counseling, suggested that he chose the counselor, one he is comfortable with.  He has repeatedly refused.  He says he does not want to bring a stranger into it.  I think, truth be told, he's terrified of being in a situation where he can't just shut down.  When it's just us, he will simply refuse to address certain things.  He knows that can't happen in counseling.  He can't just tell a counselor he's not going to discuss it - and still be able to claim he's working on the relationship, which is what he does with me.

@tj444- Yep, that's what happens here, too.  If I don't talk, nothing gets resolved, but he's fairly content.  However, I feel a bit like Nero is fiddling while Rome burns.  Things are falling apart around us (literally and figuratively) and he does not want to know about it.  Or rather, he knows about it, but he is unwilling (or unable?) to do acknowledge and/or act on it.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 8:26:21 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		After reading what you wrote, he seems like a man who is not very happy right now. Has he been to a doctor recently? Has it ever occurred to either of you that he may be suffering from depression? I mean from the sounds of it, he seems like he just kinda gets by in life, doesn't really want to do or talk about anything and like you said, he gets defensive. Maybe during one of your talks with him, you can maybe bring this up? Find out what's making him this way be it due to something physical or something else going on in his life he doesn't wish to discuss.

When people clam up like that it's usually because they are terrified, afraid of something or they just don't care, ie: depression. I understand about him not wanting to go to a therapist. It's unfortunately common among men from my experience. They don't want someone else to think their perfect marriage isn't so perfect to everyone else other than the both of you.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 8:37:24 PM   
SlipSlidingAway


Posts: 223
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Status: offline 		I would definitely say he's suffering from depression.  I have talked to him about it.  He will go as far as saying that it's a possibility.  He will not, however, seek treatment.  Again, he does not want to talk about it, with anyone, and certainly not with a doctor.  He'll go to a physician for a specific ailment, but won't even go for a general physical, as I have wondered if there might be an underlying medical condition he is not aware of.  He is not a happy man.  Yet, he's not really unhappy, either.  As long as he can ignore whatever is going on, he's content.  That's about his high point.  It breaks my heart.  He will focus on a subject, to the exclusion of everything else, almost obsessing about it- but, I think it's an avoidance mechanism.  It gives him a focal point, a place to channel all of his energy and attention.  But, even that, while it completely consumes him, gives him no pleasure.  I can't even remember the last time I saw him enjoy much of anything. 

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/9/2012 11:28:04 PM   
Jaquin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

But, even that, while it completely consumes him, gives him no pleasure.  I can't even remember the last time I saw him enjoy much of anything. 



I'm actually rather similar. A psychologist I saw refereed to it as andhedonia I believe. While I've not had issues with non-communication, and was excited to see the psychologist (as it was a mandatory part before I could get my surgery), I do have issues finding joy in what I do though I hope I'm getting better at it.

Hope the info helps.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 5:20:15 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


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Status: offline 		Thanks. Jaquin, definitely something I will definitely read up about.  I appreciate your input, as I had never heard of andhedonia before.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 6:33:56 AM   
Lucifyre


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Status: offline 		Though I don't have anything to add, I really hope you're ble to get this issue dealt with in a satisfactory manner. Living with something that weighs on you like this isn't good for either of you.

*hugs*

Lucifyre

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 7:30:45 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


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Status: offline 		Thank you so much, Lucifyre *hugs back*.  No, it's not good for me, but just having an outlet here has helped tremendously.  I feel so much better knowing I can vent a little, and get other's perspectives on things.  I kept it all inside for so long, trying to keep cool and collected at home for the sake of the kids.  I have been operating under a lot of misconceptions.  I feel that I have some clarity, and that was definitely missing before.

As a result of talking to folks here, I have decided that counseling would do me good, even if it means going alone.  While I can't make the hubby change, and I might not be able to get him to seek help, I need to talk somewhere.  If he won't (or can't) communicate with me about what's going on, the best I can do is talk to someone that has seen this sort of thing before and can assure me that I have not left any stone unturned before I make any definite decisions. 


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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 7:36:52 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I didn't realize you had kids as well. Wow, that is a very hard situation to be in. I'm glad we could be of help. I think counseling for you is a great idea. Actually, I think anything for YOU is a great idea, the stress has to be amazingly bad.



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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 7:38:04 AM   
Lucifyre


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

Thank you so much, Lucifyre *hugs back*.  No, it's not good for me, but just having an outlet here has helped tremendously.  I feel so much better knowing I can vent a little, and get other's perspectives on things.  I kept it all inside for so long, trying to keep cool and collected at home for the sake of the kids.  I have been operating under a lot of misconceptions.  I feel that I have some clarity, and that was definitely missing before.

As a result of talking to folks here, I have decided that counseling would do me good, even if it means going alone.  While I can't make the hubby change, and I might not be able to get him to seek help, I need to talk somewhere.  If he won't (or can't) communicate with me about what's going on, the best I can do is talk to someone that has seen this sort of thing before and can assure me that I have not left any stone unturned before I make any definite decisions. 




That is probably the wisest path you could choose for the moment. At least you'll be able to relieve some of the pressure you have weighing on you and probably learn a thing or three on how best to handle what's happening at home. Your therapist will be able to help you decide what's the most important thing to do next and from thier outside perspective be able to guide you through keeping in mind what's in the best interests of all involved.

Plus you never know, if you do this for a few weeks and go home with positives, maybe your husband will see it's not the ebbil he thinks it is and possibly join you after awhile. One can hope anyway.

Lucifyre

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I like girls who like girls
The thing about standards is: There are SO many to choose from.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 8:13:06 AM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

As a result of talking to folks here, I have decided that counseling would do me good, even if it means going alone.  While I can't make the hubby change, and I might not be able to get him to seek help, I need to talk somewhere.  If he won't (or can't) communicate with me about what's going on, the best I can do is talk to someone that has seen this sort of thing before and can assure me that I have not left any stone unturned before I make any definite decisions. 



This seems to be going back to that difference where you are among the people who need to talk and discuss things before you can internalize and deal with issues. You are responding to this in the way that is natural to you, and I believe that by coming here and starting this thread, talking and making a decision to go for counselling that you are making all the right moves.

There are others who need to internalize things first, but even so they also need to find ways of communicating that they need to do this so that the other person isn't left dangling. Depression is also relatively easy if its the reason for not being happy. You just go and see a doctor and start the process of managing it and take it from there. But I guess you don't need me to say that the ball's right there in his court.

That thing about getting into relationships..I believe that relationships happen fairly spontaneously. Sure you can have all the companionship, friendship, trust and whatever else, but if there's no chemistry and no love then there's not much of a relationship. It's also always easier with hindsight to wonder if a failing relationship should never have happened. But that is also overlooking the fact that at the start we tend to give the other person the benefit of the doubt.

So what do we have? We have someone who doesn't want to communicate, doesn't want to change, doesn't want to seek help and seems content to let the situation as it stands today remain the same. But then again I'm assuming that you're still there.

It would therefore seem to me that in order to stimulate any change in his thinking or behaviour, there has to be a change in the situation. Actions speak louder than words, and I would suggest that you do something, perhaps withdraw from the situation, and see how that changes things. You might consider (if your circumstances allow) a temporary separation or a trial separation.

Perhaps you moving out might just be the catalyst needed to change the situation.

I wish you well whatever you decide.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 8:49:13 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


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Status: offline 		Thank you, it's food for thought.  Since we have kids, not as ready to try a trial separation as I might be otherwise.  It's something I have considered, and I don't know if disrupting their lives to see if it works as a catalyst for change is feasible right now.  It's amongst the things I would like to discuss with a therapist. 

I really am trying to do the right thing, or in absence of a "right" thing, the most positive thing for all of us.  I just need some input as to what, in this case, that might be.  Since my husband has been unable to provide me with said input, I really need some feedback elsewhere.  I think a therapist is probably the best tool for that.

It's not even so much that I need to talk about, as I need to examine my options. I have been too close to the situation to have any objectivity.  I'm not trying to leave him dangling, nor am I looking to eliminate him from the decision making process.  If anything, I am seeking suggestions in how I can include him in the process.  Barring that, if his communication style does not allow for it, then I'm going to have to take it from there. 

< Message edited by SlipSlidingAway -- 8/10/2012 8:50:06 AM >

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 9:43:46 AM   
MissToYouRedux


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Status: offline 		I wish I could find the Ted Talk that brought this up, but as a purely physical strategy it said while women like to communicate important things face to face (probably because of the interaction with their babies) males are more inclined to open up in conversations * while along side* someone (the hypothesis was maybe from all those evolutionary group hunting years waiting in the brush!)

Imagine, all those "look me in the eye " conversations wasted. Lol

But in all seriousness, worth a shot.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 10:23:46 AM   
Jaquin


Posts: 156
Joined: 12/12/2011
Status: offline 		Ya I'd never heard of it before either until the psych report she sent me contained it. I looked it up and I knew that ya she was right in using that word. It wasn't something I realized - that I didn't find joy in things - until I had a 'face to put on it' as it were.

Now of course I can chalk it up to depression, it runs in my family, it's gotten stronger since my hormones have shifted to the estrogen side and my emotions are getting away from me as I try to find balance.

Counseling sounds like a good idea; many of us have someone around us that we'd like to change but can't and that's just the way it's going to be. Changing how we cope with them is about all we got, that or walk away which isn't an easy choice when there's kids involved.

I hope things work out for you.

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 11:59:14 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		I don’t know your situation so what I am about to say is likely to be wrong…but… Is there a chance the problem is with you and not him?

Some women…and fewer men…just don’t know when to shut up. They are constantly going over the past and trying to figure out the motivation for every spoken word.

Otherwise they are irritating and domineering in their own way and their constant harping causes their spouses to shut down communication for their sanity.

Maybe you are somewhere in the middle but step back from your perhaps, super over analyzing personality and be sure where the real problem lies.

Butch

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RE: Communicating with a non-communicator... - 8/10/2012 12:26:28 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
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Status: offline 		If it's actually been progressive, and not just a case of him previously behaving in a different manner because it suited him at the time, then I would be curious to know what his age is and whether he has any family history of schizophrenia or various schizo disorders of the personality. Some of these can make people very unavailable, and anhedonia is not uncommon. Worth looking into.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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