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RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 8:50:16 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You've never driven through the farmland of California's central valley, have you Hillwilliam?  If you had, you'd be aware just how much interaction there is with the irrigation channels and the roads.  We only have the Aqueduct running around here, and it doesn't it doesn't parallel any roads, but a few cars still go in every year, at the bridges.

One woman hit an icy patch last winter, and was very lucky to be saved by another motorist who stopped to investigate tire tracks going off the road, was able to locate her, and hold onto her until help arrived.


(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 8:55:00 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Im aware that. A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont. the ones that dont are the key. S Florida is very similar as most of the roads are built on fill dredged out of the canals. That's a shitload of $ to be made there with almost zero environmental impact. No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made.

Raw Capitali$m

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 8/15/2012 9:04:41 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 8:58:43 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		How is this different than the bridges elsewhere? Here there is water everywhere. We invest in guard rails.

Nonetheless, it's still a bullshit objection. Maybe you should just fill in all those dangerous aquaducts.

Safety first, right?


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 8/15/2012 9:00:44 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 9:44:49 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots?

And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:05:04 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Im aware that. A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont. the ones that dont are the key. S Florida is very similar as most of the roads are built on fill dredged out of the canals. That's a shitload of $ to be made there with almost zero environmental impact. No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made.

Raw Capitali$m


Bullshit, Hillwilliam.  It's a massive load of unnecessary expense, except, as I noted first, in a land poor environment.  Much, much, easier and cheaper to acquire out of use farmland, and we have LOTS of that in the central valley, and get the same benefit of not having to worry about disturbing native species

Gee, similar OSHA requirements to building a dam or bridge.  Well, those won't add a nickel to construction cost, will they?  Especially when the option is just to require steel toes, reflective vests, and hard hats, for crews working on dry land?

The structure is plainly visible, reflected in the water.  That's going to keep all the moisture contained underneath?  Just to really mess it up, besides the moisture to turn dust and airborne particulate into a harder to clean crust on the surface of the panel, lets add the electical connections being in a higher humidity environment, and then factor in the birds and bugs that are going to be drawn to the area for water, and the impact they'll have on keeping the panels clean.

Now if you want something practical, that works, the latest trend here is installing shade structures over parking lots, with the panels on top of those.  No additional land gets used, there is a direct, quality of life, side benefit for people who don't have to get into 140 degrees cars at 5:00 (saves gas as well, since the a/c doesn't have to work as hard), and they aren't hideously ugly.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/15/2012 10:09:35 PM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:08:22 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Most irrigation channels don't have public roads beside them so your last argument is null.


Moving the bar, Hillwilliam?  I'm absolutely shocked to think you would do such a thing. 

Oh wait.  Nevermind.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:27:55 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots?

And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines.

You environmentalist you.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:31:34 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Now if you want something practical, that works, the latest trend here is installing shade structures over parking lots, with the panels on top of those. No additional land gets used, there is a direct, quality of life, side benefit for people who don't have to get into 140 degrees cars at 5:00 (saves gas as well, since the a/c doesn't have to work as hard), and they aren't hideously ugly.


Gosh, we have dew fall every night, and none of the "crust" (???) you talk about on people's roof panels.

The parking shade idea, though, rocks.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:44:57 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made.

Some parts of Florida have scrub jays and some other critters that restrict or stop the ability to build in certain areas.. one area you cant build in a scrub jay area but they were talking about changing that, if you wanted to pay something like 17 or 18k.. not sure what was decided if anything yet.. and if your lot is on a canal there could be quite a cost to do whatever the city/county wants done along the canal to allow you to build...
.. just sayin'..

its sorta funny tho, in some areas if you have a pool or septic tank you need to keep it full of water/liquid or it will pop up out of the ground, apparently.. that was what i read anyway..

_____________________________

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(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:54:03 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Don't try sucking up, Muse. Weren't you telling us earlier that "very hot" in your area was a high in the 90's? Perhaps the lower temps wouldn't bake things to a crusty film, as happens here?

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 10:56:06 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Ha! Suck up to you? For what?

Sounds miserable in your eyes. You should move.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/15/2012 11:01:04 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		There is more to quality of life than scenery, Muse, but I'll get back home to Oregon, someday. Besides, have you never seen me bragging about grilling in January? There are positives and negatives to living anywhere.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 5:38:21 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
No kangaroo rats or gopher tortoises are inconvenienced and theres a shitpile oF ca$h to be made.

Some parts of Florida have scrub jays and some other critters that restrict or stop the ability to build in certain areas.. one area you cant build in a scrub jay area but they were talking about changing that, if you wanted to pay something like 17 or 18k.. not sure what was decided if anything yet.. and if your lot is on a canal there could be quite a cost to do whatever the city/county wants done along the canal to allow you to build...
.. just sayin'..

its sorta funny tho, in some areas if you have a pool or septic tank you need to keep it full of water/liquid or it will pop up out of the ground, apparently.. that was what i read anyway..

Canals are owned and operated by the regional water management district (government). Property owners pay an additional tax on top of normal property taxes for their maintenence. I was only using canal location beside roads as an example for the above poster to show that not all canals are alongside public roads to assuage his fears for public safety.
Pools and septic tanks have to be kept full in S Florida because the water table is so close to the surface there. In some places, during the rainy season, you can literally dig down a foot and hit water. When pouring deep footers you have to have pumps working continuously to keep the hole from filling with water. If you foolishly empty your pool, the hydraulic pressure can pop it out of the ground.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 5:39:57 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

A lot of canals go alongside roads but a lot dont.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Most irrigation channels don't have public roads beside them so your last argument is null.


Moving the bar, Hillwilliam?  I'm absolutely shocked to think you would do such a thing. 

Oh wait.  Nevermind.

I'm not moving the bar as I never suggested covering every canal. Pick the ones where it doesn't impact public safety. Is that too difficult for you?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 5:42:03 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Actually I am an environmentalist, Im just not an old burned out communal hippy whose head full of ideas that are totally unworkable in society at large

In other words, its plainly clear that you cant answer the question, because the best you can do is try to deflect

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots?

And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines.

You environmentalist you.





< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/16/2012 5:58:24 AM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 5:52:08 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


The structure is plainly visible, reflected in the water.  That's going to keep all the moisture contained underneath?  Just to really mess it up, besides the moisture to turn dust and airborne particulate into a harder to clean crust on the surface of the panel, lets add the electical connections being in a higher humidity environment, and then factor in the birds and bugs that are going to be drawn to the area for water, and the impact they'll have on keeping the panels clean.

Now if you want something practical, that works, the latest trend here is installing shade structures over parking lots, with the panels on top of those.  No additional land gets used, there is a direct, quality of life, side benefit for people who don't have to get into 140 degrees cars at 5:00 (saves gas as well, since the a/c doesn't have to work as hard), and they aren't hideously ugly.

The structure wont be reflected in the water due to the fact that the water is underneath it.
As for plainly visible, oil wells are plainly visible, your first topic on this post was whining about unsightly wind farms. I dont think you care about aesthetics as long as it's in someone elses back yard.
The humidity underneath will be near 100% which will creat condensation on the underside of the panels. Said condensation will drip back down into the canal reducing loss of irrigation water due to evaporation (another plus). Any dust forming a crust will gather on the under side. I'll let ya in on a deep dark secret. Solar panels don't gather sunlight on the underside. They gather it on the top. That's the part closest to that big yellow ball in the sky.
re: Electrical connections in a high humidity environment. We have electrical connections that work in a salt spray environment. I think 95-100% humidity in a fresh water environment is very doable.

Panels on roofs of parking garages and commercial buildings is a great idea. Right now, payback on investment is about 7 years. We have rain, times of near 100% humidity, dew nearly every morning and dust and everything else here and I havent heard of anyone needing to go clean crud off the top of their panels.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 5:58:18 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You cant answer?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Where do the lead smelters go for all the batteries you will need. Your city have any vacant lots?

And whose back yard will host the toxic metals mines.

You environmentalist you.





Most aren't answering your question as it shows scientific illiteracy.

1. Solar generated electricity goes straight into the grid. No batteries needed.

2. Modern high efficiency batteries don't contain lead.

You're welcome

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 6:17:23 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Canals are owned and operated by the regional water management district (government). Property owners pay an additional tax on top of normal property taxes for their maintenence. I was only using canal location beside roads as an example for the above poster to show that not all canals are alongside public roads to assuage his fears for public safety.
Pools and septic tanks have to be kept full in S Florida because the water table is so close to the surface there. In some places, during the rainy season, you can literally dig down a foot and hit water. When pouring deep footers you have to have pumps working continuously to keep the hole from filling with water. If you foolishly empty your pool, the hydraulic pressure can pop it out of the ground.

Yes, I know its due to the water table there and all that.. I just find it so.. peculiar.. Imo with the water table that high allowing septic systems seems weird & perhaps not enviromentally sane?, any other place i have lived likely would never allow a septic system under those conditions, but they are considerably drier places..

I spent a little time in FL and quite frankly, I hated it.. its not a place i would actually want to live for any length of time..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 8:21:55 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Canals are owned and operated by the regional water management district (government). Property owners pay an additional tax on top of normal property taxes for their maintenence. I was only using canal location beside roads as an example for the above poster to show that not all canals are alongside public roads to assuage his fears for public safety.
Pools and septic tanks have to be kept full in S Florida because the water table is so close to the surface there. In some places, during the rainy season, you can literally dig down a foot and hit water. When pouring deep footers you have to have pumps working continuously to keep the hole from filling with water. If you foolishly empty your pool, the hydraulic pressure can pop it out of the ground.

Yes, I know its due to the water table there and all that.. I just find it so.. peculiar.. Imo with the water table that high allowing septic systems seems weird & perhaps not enviromentally sane?, any other place i have lived likely would never allow a septic system under those conditions, but they are considerably drier places..

I spent a little time in FL and quite frankly, I hated it.. its not a place i would actually want to live for any length of time..

I spent 18 years there. Yes, it is crazy allowing septic systems that close to the water table especially as the oolitic limestone is as porous as a sponge allowing pollutants to move freely. fortunately, the wells that supply miami with water pierce thru to a deeper aquifer or everyone down there would be subjected to nonconsensual scat play.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: 100% wind, water, solar power possible - 8/16/2012 8:23:10 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And it's flat. Really, really, really flat.

They also lag behind the nation on alternative energy, because the legislature isn't listening to its citizens:

http://cleanenergyflorida.org/

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 120
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