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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 6:23:41 AM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

You have done so well so far, how bout you poke a hole in my theory that the universe is actually a black hole, viewed from inside.


Current findings seem to suggest <snip / paraphrase>

a whole lot of smart stuff

<snip>- physically or metaphysically.

Entertaining idea, but it didn't keep me busy very long.

IWYW,
— Aswad.





As always, Aswad... a pleasure.

sunshine

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 6:26:10 AM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

My favorite dinosaur is the stegosaurus.


Deinonychus!






Attachment (1)

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 6:28:53 AM   
stellauk


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All creativity follows a cycle of four stages starting from what exists (to which it returns). You have a pattern or model which you break down through examination, then intuition or inspiration to come up with a need to create something new, then imagination or conception to imagine what is being created as an illusion, and finally the techniques to make that illusion reality.

If you accept two planes of existence, the physical (natural) and the metaphysical (spiritual), as both being part of the Universe. While there's no evidence of God as a sentient being, there's plenty of possibility of 'God' as a form of energy existing throughout the Universe. Otherwise what moves the planets? What expands the Universe?

You see you also have perception. You can only know about stuff that lies within your powers of perception, understanding and awareness. Much of that what is taken to be fact outside of that is second-hand knowledge which you find acceptable.

I also disagree that science is 'fact' and religion is 'belief'. In fact I see a symbiotic relationship, as both serve to increase our powers of understanding, awareness and knowledge.

Much of what constitutes science is belief, it is theory, it is hypothesis, and some of what is accepted as scientific fact becomes disproven as our awareness and understanding grows and further discoveries are made.

You see at the end of the day the Universe could be purely physical, but also it could also be that the physical element of the Universe is minute in comparison with the metaphysical Universe.

As it stands it cannot be proven or disproven.

Therefore all that is left is belief.

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 6:35:52 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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So we're all a part of the Red King's dream after all? A tremendous relief!

DEINONYCHUS!!

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 6:51:55 AM   
cloudboy


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I think the reference here is to Domiguy, who no longer posts here.

---

I agree with Aswad regarding creationism, "Connect the dots can be an entertaining exercise when you also get to pick and choose the dots."

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 7:25:30 AM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

You have done so well so far, how bout you poke a hole in my theory that the universe is actually a black hole, viewed from inside.


Current findings seem to suggest that the universe changed its macroscopic dimensionality at some point in the past. Something about the polarization of the cosmic microwave background, if memory serves. This also makes intuitive sense: more dimensions for the same energy content gives you less tension, and I'm fairly certain it results in less entropy. Imagine an explosion between a pair of plates. At first, the pressure moves rapidly outwards in a plane, then the plates buckle and the pressure gets to expand in three dimensions instead of two.

I'm not aware of work done in regard to it, but if the timing coincides, such a change could perhaps account for the transition from the inflationary epoch to the calmer universe we see today. This because the reduced tension would show up as a change in the cosmological constant at the point in time when the dimensionality changes. If remaining tension is in the right range, this might also lead to a future change in dimensionality. Of course, this is just idle speculation, and I don't have a particular grasp of mathematics, physics or cosmology, so take it for what it is.

Anyway, if the dimensionality has changed, that does not seem to be in accordance with your black hole hypothesis. A black hole is for causal purposes a two dimensional surface in our universe. In a higher dimensionality universe, one might of course envision a black hole forming with a three dimensional causal surface. However, the internal dimensionality has no reason to change, to the best of my knowledge. The tension is fixed by the gravitational mass of the black hole, and the shape is set by the initial conditions during its collapse. As such, I would not expect to see any indication of such a change.

Seeing as there are indications of such a change, I would say I've poked a hole in your hypothesis. Not necessarily a goatse class hole, but certainly there are testable predictions that follow from the hypothesis, and there appears to be more in favor of it being false than it being validated. Again, I'm not qualified to address it, but to the extent that I'm able, I would tend to reject it as being "probably false" as a hypothesis on which to base a model of our universe- physically or metaphysically.

Entertaining idea, but it didn't keep me busy very long.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




Cremona transformations show how the three dimensions postulated by Ptolemy are actually four. Clausius' theory which purports that "The energy of the universe is constant. Its entropy tends to a maximum." would lend to the idea that entropy slows only if we accept that the universe is a closed system. The same might not hold true in an isolated system.

Entropy doesn't slow in an isolated system. So let's run with that for a moment.

In an isolated system, entropy can only remain constant or increase. Couple that with cosmic acceleration and you have a taxation of the finite set of energy (since energy can't be destroyed, it has to change). Add in the number of dimensions in a black hole (which are postulated up to five) and you see that energy taxation increases, as would the entropy, which increases the energy taxation etcetera.

Could the universe be a black hole? Probably not. Could another universe exist inside a black hole along a separate dimension? Meh. Maybe. The theory above allows for it, although it would rapidly cycle between creation and destruction.




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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 7:38:50 AM   
GreedyTop


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~FR~

I adore Aswad. I would happily cougar him if (a) he wasn't attached, (b) he wasn't so friggin far away, (c) I felt I could even come close to the same level of intelligence (and despite appearances to the contrary, I am NOT a dull crayon!!), and (d) our "lifestyle" (god I hate that term) styles weren't so radically different.


Carry on.

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 8/14/2012 7:39:19 AM >


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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 7:45:50 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Agreeing with Greedy. I am easily seduced by intelligence. And my personal level for "intelligence" is set fairly high.

(and he has a BEARD. see? Shallow Hib is not as shallow as SOME PEOPLE)

(but it snows a LOT in Norway anyway.)

DEINONYCHUS!!

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 7:56:41 AM   
sunshinemiss


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Reminder: I am the President of Aswad's Fan Club. You hussies just watch your step!

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 7:58:44 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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OH and you won't share with ME??? It's not like I want to do more than TALK... jeez.

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 8:10:13 AM   
MrBukani


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Hell there's already some genuine dinosaurs roaming on this site.
Do you knwo how old earth is? They say 4.5 billion years.
Do you know how old our universe is?
They say 15 billion years.
So there is a big chance that we are alone.
And judging the ecoshpere on here I say we're a singularity.

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 8:28:23 AM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

And judging the ecoshpere on here I say we're a singularity.


We're not heavy enough.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 8:41:07 AM   
GreedyTop


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~FR~ to Sunny and Hibbie


I would SO share with you both!! I think Aswad has more than enough AWESOME to go around!!

(edited because I mistakenly allowed my dyslexic fingers to have access to the keyboard)

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 8/14/2012 8:51:53 AM >


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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 8:49:29 AM   
igor2003


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

again...it was not meant to be a literal interpretation.


What you said was that the numbers were symbolic.  When it talks of evening and morning, those aren't numbers and many people believe that the evening and morning portion was put there to show that those were literal days.  So how is it that you determine which parts of the Bible to ignore as not being literal, and what parts of the Bible ARE literal?  Is it that any time numbers are involved, especially the number 7, that it is not to be taken literally?  Or could it be that the Creation took 7 literal days (counting the day of rest), and so the number 7 became symbolic due to that fact? **

And just to clarify...I'm not trying to start a religious argument or anything.  Actually, I'm agnostic and I'm simply trying to see how people view various aspects of the Bible and their reasoning behind their beliefs. 

**Yes, I know that science shows the earth to be millions and/or billions of years old, but just to continue the Creation arguement...if God is so powerful that he created the planets, sun, stars and galaxies in 6 days, then could He not also have created a "history" for those things...perhaps as a test for the faithful?  Or perhaps Satan created that history as a means of turning people from Biblical teachings so that they would laugh and say, "See...science proves the Bible can't be accurate"? 

Again, I'm NOT claiming these things as fact...just tossing them out there for the sake of argument.


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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 9:42:42 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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There is a faction that says Satan created fossils. Which is fabulously skilled, since the modern Satan is a medieval creation.



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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 9:50:18 AM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

There is a faction that says Satan created fossils. Which is fabulously skilled, since the modern Satan is a medieval creation.


Now I want to be Satan. For a few people that know me, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch. o_O



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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 9:57:24 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I think that would just be wayyyy too easy for you, Mr Remote. Way too easy.

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 9:58:45 AM   
TNDommeK


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This is an interesting thread. I would say I am someone who believes in God but I do not like organized religion (too many hypocrites). I believe in science as well as My faith. I feel that God gave us the ability to do wonderful things, there are just some people , more than others, who use that ability. I can't remember who said something similar to this, but we can have religion and forms of evolution. We evolve all the time. Who's to say that wasn't part of the plan?

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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 10:00:14 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

The bible is the basis of biblical religion, with the modern day science and understanding  available, biblical religion is having to interpret more and more of the bible as metaphor or abstract moralisation in order to keep it truth,


More like people are finally forced to stop abusing a work that was never meant to be taken literally, at least not all of it (some is strictly historical, for instance, and probably meant to be taken literally). People will eventually have to start reading it the way the darn thing is supposed to be read: with reflection and reason. There's a fuckton of stuff in there that will make absolutely no sense when one insists on taking things literally, but which makes every kind of sense when read with an open, inquisitive mind. And we all know there's plenty of things that have a historical meaning that is no longer relevant, such as the laws meant to segregate the Jewish culture from the Canaanite culture (much of which has to do with sex; the Canaanites were fond of orgies, prostitution, gay sex, incest, zoophilia, and in general every kind of sex out there, which you'll have to admit makes for a rather inviting culture).

quote:

So assuming as there is a basic foundational  literal statement which would have to be true, what would it be?


Ehyeh asher ehyeh.

That would be a start, at least.

quote:

That's if you want to take up the task because...


I would suggest waiting for me to finish the work I'm doing on founding a church.

One which doesn't claim the Earth is 6000 years old.

quote:

I actually think highly of your posts even if they are a bit speculative.


Thanks.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



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RE: Dinosaurs - 8/14/2012 10:02:46 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

There is a faction that says Satan created fossils. Which is fabulously skilled, since the modern Satan is a medieval creation.


Now I want to be Satan. For a few people that know me, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch. o_O



from what I know of you, I'd say that Kana is in the dust for the next Satan. In fact, Kana has no chance! Satan should be checking his heels...

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