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Damn Bush!-Dinosaurs - 11/3/2004 1:17:19 PM   
sub4hire


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Where do the dinosaurs come in?

When my mother was alive we would have some heated debates about dinosaurs. Surely they existed because we have proof. We have their bones. We can and have reconstructed them. Yet, being the devout catholic she was there were no dinosaurs in her creation of the universe.

I'd still like to know where the dinosaurs came from.

(in reply to srahfox)
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RE: Damn Bush!-Dinosaurs - 11/3/2004 1:36:14 PM   
dixiedumpling


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Gloria! Don't you know? The devil put those bones there to confound us.

_____________________________

Toodles,
dixiedumpling

My mind is no place to play alone. Anna Pigeon as written by Nevada Barr

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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 1:46:23 PM   
Mercnbeth


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sarah,
Next time you see you Pastor Uncle refer to any of the following 9 Biblical Unicorn references:

Numbers 23:22 - God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

Numbers 24:8 - God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.

Deuteronomy 33:17 - His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

Job 39:9 - Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

Job 39:10 - Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?

Psalms 22:21 - Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

Psalms 29:6 - He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.

Psalms 92:10 - But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.

Isaiah 34:7 - And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

Now regarding Gloria's quest for Dinosaurs, I'm afraid your mother was right - Dinosaurs do not appear in the Bible. Maybe the writers couldn't negotiate the rights with Jurassic Park director, Stephen Spielberg.

But.... According to the "Creationists", those enlightened people who claim that the world was created on October 22nd 4004 BC at exactly 8 PM, the Bible clearly states that ALL land animals and man were both created on the sixth day of creation. Many don't realize that this would also include the dinosaurs. Now regarding the age of those bones, according to them you are misinformed.

Their position...."From kindergarten on we are repeatedly told that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. If you are told something repeatedly year after year - you will begin to believe it. Even if it is not true. The amazing thing is there is no evidence to support the belief that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. In fact, the physical evidence contradicts this very idea. Contrary to what you may have been told, dinosaur bones are NOT carbon dated. They are "assigned" an age based on how old someone thinks they are, based upon the geologic column."

They continue; "But that doesn't mean that the animals we now call "Dinosaurs" are not in the Bible. It just means that if they are in the Bible, they are called by a different name. The Bible says that Adam named all the animals that God created. So to find the dinosaurs we will have to look for the original Hebrew names given to these creatures. Names like "Behemoth" and "Tannin". In the book of Job the Bible talks about some of these magnificent creatures. In the book of Job we see the word "Behemoth" being used to describe the largest of the animals God made. The word "Behemoth" means "Giant kingly beast". The Behemoth is clearly a dinosaur."

There you have it Gloria - Proof positive that not only did dinosaurs exist but they are in the bible!

And these people voted! Most likely for the person you didn't want to see win.

(in reply to srahfox)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 1:53:30 PM   
sub4hire


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Ok, so dinosaurs were in the bible. Just by a different name. I can understand that.

Now to my next question. How did Noah get two of them on the ark?

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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 2:00:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Gloria,
See now, you're getting silly. Everyone KNOWS they were busy playing with the unicorns when the rains came, that's why we don't see either of them around now.

There was even a song about it back in the last 60's. "The Unicorn Song".

Jeez!!!

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 2:05:03 PM   
sub4hire


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Hehe, now you know what ministers and pastors feel like when they decide to "convert" me.

I just want to be able to stand behind whatever I believe in. Make sense out of it.

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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 2:09:42 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Know exactly what you mean. Last time some Jehovah Witnesses knocked on my door I converted them. They made for very well behaved subs and are now in formal slave training at a local LA lifestyle club.


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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 3:38:25 PM   
jillwfsub4blkdom


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Merc,
You say that Kerry didn't give us detailed comments as to how he was going to win the war in Iraq but i don't recall Bush saying he had any other plans than continuing what he was currently doing which is a total disaster.
Secondly, as conservative as Bush is, how could anyone want to vote him in office with the possibility of him nominating 4 new supreme court justices?

i am totally sickened by the outcome of the election.

jill


_____________________________


"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 3:57:30 PM   
newflowers


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quote:

it would appear we here in the US should expect more terrorist acts here in the US, while they bleed us in Iraq...maybe i should see about moving to Canada, out of the line of fire.


It gets so cold there and besides, I don't think they want us.

I maintain the the 911 attacks were to hurt the US economy the people killed were icing on the cake. The attacks were wildly successful and continue to be so. New York came to a virtual standstill and the ripple effect was felt in many other places. Okay - so we are not the only country to be attacked by terrorists and life goes on.

However, as a result of those attacks governments at all levels are spending millions for "terror alerts" and terror prevention and terror training for public safety. Whispers and rumors of another terror attack and off we go - more money spent to "keep America safe". Patriot Acts and Homeland Security - cost more and more money. The war in Afghanistan costs billions and billions and the war in Iraq - started to *save* the world from potential terror costs trillions and trillions.

The terrorists of 911 need not do anything else expect spread the occassonal rumor to continue to win. They play Bush like a puppet on a string and with his rumors of fear and terror, the American public follows along. Bin Laden was successful beyond his wildest imagination and continues to be so. The terrorists are still attacking - we're helping them.


newflowers

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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 4:13:53 PM   
Mercnbeth


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jill,
Somewhere in either this thread or the other regarding liberals I shared my biggest concern in voting for Bush, which was the appointment of supreme court justices. If I voted for Kerry that would have been my rationalization. But it was offset by his lack of detailing is plan for Iraq along with his well documeted goal to solve social issues through bigger government.

In this morning's news was confirmation of what I felt was important in voting for Bush. This quote from Russian President Vladimir Putin:
quote:

MOSCOW – Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday welcomed a victory for George W. Bush in the U.S. presidential race, saying it meant Americans had not allowed themselves to be cowed by terrorists.

"If Bush wins, then I can only feel joy that the American people did not allow itself to be intimidated, and made the most sensible decision," Putin said at a Kremlin news conference after talks with Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi.


You are absolutely correct. Bush's position is continuing the current path in Iraq. Kerry's capitulation or even vacillation would be far worse. Even our enemies appreciate our resolve and our 'friends' are relieved that the the US will not abandon the area and leave a power vacuum. This link will take you to other international opinions: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041103/1/3o8sn.html

I am sorry you are 'sickened'. I am by no means overjoyed, but voting for Bush was my pragmatic decision. Maybe now the Democrats will stop trying to build a coalition of the disenfranchised and put someone at the top of the ticket that is more representative. Will they remember that in a bad economy, during an unpopular war, against a man of average intelligence at best, they lost ground from four years ago? Will they appreciate they went from a national voting plurality to having 3.5 Million gap? Unfortunately, I think instead we'll have Hilliary on the next go around, and that will polarize the country even further.

(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 4:13:58 PM   
Yankeestick


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Friends -

The reality is that the 3 levantine religions (a term I got from Joe Campbell) all share the same savage god in their original formulations.

It's easy to throw stones at the other guy - so I'll hurl a couple just to break a few windows.

Judaism: Check out the instructions of Jehovah to the Israelites about to enter the Promised Land - inhabited by seven nations stronger and more numerous. Not only were they told to kill the men, but also the women, the children and the animals - to leave NOTHING alive.

Christianity: You can certainly have a ball playing Apocalypse Now like Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, Jerry Falwell, etc. More telling still is the implicit anti-semitism in the New Testament, where the non-believing Jews are called "The Synagogue of Satan". That memetic thread dominated early Christian thinking from the days of the early Church Fathers, carried forward through the Middle Ages and into the Age of Reformation. Martin Luther organized a massive campaign to convert the Jews, and when the Jews (stubborn fools) refused to "see the light", he issued a sermon calling on all good Christians to persecute the Jews, killing them or driving them from Germany. Many Jewish and Christian scholars believe that here lie the roots of the Holocaust.

I won't bother with Islam as Merc kicked off the discussion with the examples.

We can leave those Jehovah-based western religions and go to Eastern ones to find other examples of human projection - and human foolishness.

The bottom line (for tops too!) is that we're all living in a glass house here - so throwing stones at "the other" is a major mistake. We ALL - even the rationalists, athiests, and humanists among us - suffer from more delusions and obscurations that we know.

Recognizing that our individual and corporate karmic roots include a non-consensual and narcissitic SAVAGERY which takes precious little account of the OTHER should give us all pause - because if it doesn't, there won't be much of a world left for our children's children's children.

Personally, one of the things I love about BDSM is that it give me a field to express my dark side in, within a larger field that keeps sane and non-criminal.

But it also challenges me to think more deeply about what Buddhism calls our "kleshas" - our blind karmic passions, which unacknowledged and unexamined can turn me into just another petty hatemonger - and surely the world has had more than enough of that - regardless of your particular religion/philosophy.

Best to all -

Yankeestick


(in reply to jillwfsub4blkdom)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 4:39:43 PM   
SherriA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I hate the idea that I had to vote for George Bush today. His wanting to get into my bedroom, monitor my TV viewing, and controlling my social way of life is against everything I believe.


Enough reason right there to rid the country of his menace, imnsho.

quote:


Problem is, other then hating and disagreeing with anything Bush, Kerry has not told me what he stands for or what he will do.


Interesting. I was able to find quite a lot of information about Kerry's plans and where he stands on issues. It was a simple matter. Start on his website and go from there.

Bush, otoh, promised more of the same. Great - more debt, more job loss, more death, more damage to the environment, more barriers to important medical research, more erosion of women's rights, etc, etc, etc.

quote:

The easiest position in a debate is the contrary position. But to win the debate you need a solution. Kerry has never provided a detailed solution to anything. I believe the reason for this is that his solutions would be very bad for business, the economy, and the US place in the world.


Kerry did indeed give solutions, and also explained where the money would come to pay for them. He had plans for economic development and international relations - valid plans, from what I could see. I didn't see what you're describing at all.

Bush has been terrible for business, the economy, and the US's place in the world, and he's promised more of the same. How is voting for a continuing downtrend better than voting for something you're unsure about (and you could have gotten answers to what was unclear to you by simply doing some basic research. At least, I was able to.)

quote:

I also feel that, if Kerry wins it will be seen as a win for Bin Laden. Bin Laden will be in even higher regard by the Muslims. It will be taken as a victory for his rhetoric and 9/11 seen as point when the war was tuned in the Muslim favor. We will be thought of in the same context as the Spanish, who voted out their President after he did not capitulate. The Spanish preferred to surrender to the terrorists after the bombing of their railway station and the death of their citizens. And remember this, Muslims have as one of their fundamental beliefs that ALL infidels should be killed in the name of Allah. That is direct from their Koran. It is a religion of terror, unforeseen by the US founding fathers when they protected all religious practice under the constitution


I completely disagree with this. BUSH was in power when the US was attacked. BUSH has managed to unite warring middle eastern nations in their hatred for the US. BUSH's policies and actions have increased the numbers of terrorists and the threats to American security. How is removing that from office a victory? Returning him was the best thing Bin Laden et al could hope for from us, and we've provided it to them.

The biggest threat to the security of the US, imnsho, is George W. Bush, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, and Condaleeza Rice (and the rest of their cronies) returned to power.

I personally didn't see the Spanish people voting out their incumbent as capitulating. I saw it as them making an informed choice, which is what the election process is supposed to be all about.

As for all the rhetoric about Muslims, there are indeed a small percentage of fundamentalists who believe the things you're saying. But that's like painting all Xtians with the same brush as Pat Robertson and his ilk. There will always be extremists who feel righteous indignation and the need to supress others. They're not the norm, they don't represent the "average" member of the faith, and they should not be treated as such.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 4:55:55 PM   
Mercnbeth


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SherriA

quote:

As for all the rhetoric about Muslims, there are indeed a small percentage of fundamentalists who believe the things you're saying. But that's like painting all Xtians with the same brush as Pat Robertson and his ilk.


Except for the recruiting of suicide bombers - CORRECT.

quote:

Kerry did indeed give solutions, and also explained where the money would come to pay for them..


Yes he did. Solution was for more government - funds would come from taxpayers. We already have too much of both. And increased corporate taxes result in either higher prices or companies closing and setting up in another country.

quote:

BUSH's policies and actions have increased the numbers of terrorists and the threats to American security. How is removing that from office a victory?


I'll let Bin Laden answer. Addressing Americans directly in a tape released last week, he said:

"Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one [Bush] get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons [the number of casualties in Iraq], also for money. And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorize the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

"Finally, it behooves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched. Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: 'How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision.' It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: 'Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes.'

"And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. 'Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny.' As has been said: 'An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.' And know that: 'It is better to return to the truth than persist in error.' And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

"In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No. Your security is in your own hands. And every [US] state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security."

So he is offering Americans a truce. Vote against Bush and in favor of American withdrawal and passivity--and you will be spared further terrorists attacks.

Does any of this sound familiar? This is precisely the kind of deal bin Laden proposed to Europe, and it is precisely the deal the Spanish cravenly accepted when, after the al-Qaeda train bombings of March 11, they voted for a Socialist candidate who promptly removed Spanish troops from Iraq. Bin Laden hopes to achieve the same result in the US.
quote:

I personally didn't see the Spanish people voting out their incumbent as capitulating. I saw it as them making an informed choice, which is what the election process is supposed to be all about.


Exactly what occured yesterday with a 3.5 Million plurality.

(in reply to SherriA)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 6:02:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

With deepest respect and admiration Lady Andelika - my source is the Koran. There are 123 verses in the Koran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah.


Andelika.. sounds neat ;)

The Bible has just as nasty stuff written in it. You don't see all people who fall under the big Christian umbrella stoning women or performing crucifixions.

The reasonable people today embrace their faith in a much more reasonable way. There are extremists that take those words to heart. There are such people in all religions.

I just don't appreciate the way you targeted the Muslims. You go on and on about how much you want your BDSM way of life accepted and I find it ironic you can make a blanket statement about all Muslims that way.

My knowledge of Islam isn't straight from the Koran. It's through very deep inter personal relationships with people who subscribe to what can be, in certain ways, a very beautiful faith.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 6:05:56 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

it would appear we here in the US should expect more terrorist acts here in the US, while they bleed us in Iraq...maybe i should see about moving to Canada, out of the line of fire.


I have this lovely cage... ;)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to sting516)
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RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 7:12:20 PM   
jillwfsub4blkdom


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Merc,
do You realize the impact that the supreme court will have for years and years to come? i probably need to do some research but it scares me how long each justice is actually on the supreme court. If he gets 4 appointments, he will almost have a majority there. Remember how young Clarence Thomas is so he will already have his conservative republicans controlling the courts for years. Just think about all of our rights that will be at stake. Regardless of the war, i don't understand why You arent thinking about long-term implications. Hell if Bush can't handle gays how in the hell would he be able to handle anyone involved with BDSM. You know Bush's beliefs in regards to pro-life so it is just a matter of time before Roe vs Wade will be overturned.

jill


_____________________________


"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Damn Bush! - 11/3/2004 7:30:09 PM   
SherriA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Yes he did. Solution was for more government - funds would come from taxpayers. We already have too much of both. And increased corporate taxes result in either higher prices or companies closing and setting up in another country.


And, of course, we've seen NONE of this under the current administration?

quote:


I'll let Bin Laden answer. Addressing Americans directly in a tape released last week, he said:


<extremist rhetoric snipped, because using up bandwith on it once was more than enough>

Bin Laden may speak for you, but he certainly doesn't for me, or for most of the free-thinking world.

quote:


So he is offering Americans a truce. Vote against Bush and in favor of American withdrawal and passivity--and you will be spared further terrorists attacks.


You're reading that very differently than I am. Bin Laden specifically said that it mattered not whether Kerry or Bush was in power. And Kerry has never suggested passivity; he proposed well thought-out withdrawl from a military action we had no reason to be part of to begin with.

Withdrawl from Iraq has nothing to do with bringing Bin Laden to justice. In case you got caught up in the tangled web like so many others, the current administration has admitted that the two are not linked. Kerry very strongly stated that he *would* go after Bin Laden. Bush et al haven't done much in that regard in a long time.

quote:

Does any of this sound familiar? This is precisely the kind of deal bin Laden proposed to Europe, and it is precisely the deal the Spanish cravenly accepted when, after the al-Qaeda train bombings of March 11, they voted for a Socialist candidate who promptly removed Spanish troops from Iraq. Bin Laden hopes to achieve the same result in the US.


The population in Spain was increasingly opposed to the military action in Iraq before the terrorist attacks occurred in their country. They elected a leader who was in line with the thinking of the population. That's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

quote:


Exactly what occured yesterday with a 3.5 Million plurality.


Indeed. And it saddens me to an unbelievable extent that so many people succumbed to the fearmongering and lies of the current administration...so much so that they were unable to see past that to the significant issues that impact this country. I saw interview after interview with people who admitted that Bush was bad for the country, but they were afraid NOT to vote for him. That kind of thinking is a sad sad thing.

It's also pretty sad that so many people were not voting *for* Kerry, but rather voting *against* Bush. Even though they didn't believe Kerry was the best man for the job, they felt almost anyone would be better than what we currently deal with. For almost half the country to feel that way is pretty significant, imnsho.




< Message edited by SherriA -- 11/3/2004 7:31:05 PM >


_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Damn Bush! - 11/4/2004 4:55:18 AM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

I saw interview after interview with people who admitted that Bush was bad for the country, but they were afraid NOT to vote for him. That kind of thinking is a sad sad thing.

It is very sad. As an outsider looking in, fear seems to be a big reoccurring thing in the American population. Fear of the other, fear of things different, fear to live...

It isn’t perfect here in Canada. Not by far. But I think we fear a little less. It is so interesting though because a significant portion of our countries interfaces for over 6000 kilometres and yet, we find such differences. I am reminded of the scene in Bowling for Columbine where Moore does his comparison of Windsor Ontario and Detroit Michigan…

I really hope that as a nation, you can overcome fear. And I mean that sincerely without any nasty jabs. Your neighbours from the North are concerned!

quote:

It's also pretty sad that so many people were not voting *for* Kerry, but rather voting *against* Bush. Even though they didn't believe Kerry was the best man for the job, they felt almost anyone would be better than what we currently deal with.


The same thing happened in the last Canadian election, though to be quite honest, I'd take Liberal party Prime Minister Paul Martin over your guy any day. But we had a ridiculously close race in June and for the same reasons. It was all about voting against right wing Conservative Leader Stephen Harper (who wanted to support Bush among other ridiculously right-wing platform ideals) and not for middle-and-slightly-to-the-left wing Paul Martin, who isn’t such a popular guy here since he was directly involved in sponsorship funds scandals. And then it gets more complicated as we had 2 other parties competing for votes as well.

The one advantage to our system is that with 4 parties running for seats (though one is concentrated exclusively in Quebec and another doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a seat in Quebec) is that if the population is very divided, we get a minority government and someone who one by a very small percentage will have more difficulty passing outrageous legislation. It’s not a perfect system. But then again, if anyone knows of one...

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Damn Bush! - 11/4/2004 5:50:46 AM   
BluesMate


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deletedeletedelete

< Message edited by BluesMate -- 11/7/2004 8:16:03 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Damn Bush! - 11/4/2004 6:21:37 AM   
srahfox


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quote:

Psalms 22:21 - Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
This was the one I knew about, but damn, I didn't know there were so many in the bible.
I will say I voted for Kerry because I really didn't want bush. I didn't want to vote for Kerry, But I would have taken him over Bush. As for Bin Laden, let's see we don't have him. This is a man who isn't in the best of health and peaks out everyonce on a while to be recorded saying something about America, but we don't have him. He's the one we should be fighting.. but who did we go after?? I don't like Sadam either but he wasn't the one we are soooo afraid of.
Remeber everyone, no one has the answer to all our questions. No party has it right. Being an American we have the right to choose who we believe will do the best. I voted against Bush, because I felt he was a little too willing to take those freedoms from me.
Everyone is going to see what was said and what has been done differently, I resent the fact that so many people voted for Bush too, but attacking those people gets us no where. We just have to buckle down and make the most of it.
Merc, were did you find so many unicorn verses. I know the bible but did you have a way to search it or are you just that familiar with the Bible.
Oh, one more thing, we know the bible says God created the earth in 7 days, and there is the reason so many diehard christians don't believe in evolution, but who knows how long God days are?

(in reply to BluesMate)
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