RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (Full Version)

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UllrsIshtar -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 1:18:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

Physical signs vary. One constant is that My pupils dilate. My eyes also change color

Oh, dog piss. My eyes change color too. That's kinda scary.



That is fucking interesting... my husband's eyes change color too.

I wonder if there's an actual correlation between top-high and eye color shifts.



LadyPact -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 1:22:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Oh, dog piss. My eyes change color too. That's kinda scary.
Now, they're pretty much hazel, so they shift according to mood a bit anyway, but when I play, they really shift.
I don't get the physical effects you do, but I can crash real hard emotionally after (It's tough coming back down into cold ugly reality. The high from topping is so much cleaner and better), do some real soul wrestling, have to deal with a lot of nasty shit that bubbles to the surface from time to time.
But even that's cathartic. At least it's getting dealt with and not festering inside, slowly turning toxic.
And that dealing, we do it together. I'm not alone, in mind, body or spirit, and that helps.


So hey, all you subs/slaves out there-Dominants are people too-sometimes we need aftercare just like you do


edited to add this: 
Yer misogyny isn't the word I'm looking for,
Is there a term for,
"raw, benign, patriarchal, objectification

How bout "ravish?" As in, I'm gonna ravish her in the most primal way possible...
It's not dog piss, Kana. It's a tell tale sign for Me. If I recall correctly, there hasn't been a time that it wasn't recognizable from My eyes.

However, I will agree. The drawback to space for Me is the opening for drop. Yes. After all of these years. Yes. With My experience level. For Me, drop can happen the next day or a few days later. If I don't eat, hydrate, rest, I can be a mess.




Kana -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 1:27:31 AM)

Piling on to LP's comments, I also spent lots and lots of time with meditation, eastern philosophy, zen, martial arts and shamanism so I'm pretty familiar with trance states.
Well that, and when I was a kid, I did lots and lots of drugs.[8D]
As in so many that I won't discuss it on a public forum lest you think I'm a liar or Keith Richards

PS-LP-I meant "Oh, Dog Piss" as an exclamatory remark of surprise, nothing negative or dubious :-)



LadyPact -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 1:29:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
That is fucking interesting... my husband's eyes change color too.

I wonder if there's an actual correlation between top-high and eye color shifts.
For what it's worth, Ishtar, for Me, it's not unique to BDSM. My eyes also light up when the sexual satisfaction hits ten orgasms or more, when I've had too much wine, when physical exertion has had brain chemistry kick in.....

It's worth mentioning to know the source.




LadyPact -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 1:36:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Piling on to LP's comments, I also spent lots and lots of time with meditation, eastern philosophy, zen, martial arts and shamanism so I'm pretty familiar with trance states.
Well that, and when I was a kid, I did lots and lots of drugs.[8D]
As in so many that I won't discuss it on a public forum lest you think I'm a liar or Keith Richards

PS-LP-I meant "Oh, Dog Piss" as an exclamatory remark of surprise, nothing negative or dubious :-)

Ah.... Exclamatory in familiarity. Got it. I shouldn't be surprised.

It's funny, in a way. Very few will recognize space from the top side (it makes us weak) or, heaven forbid, drop. Some are so wrapped up in "the Image" (tm).

I admit, I haven't studied other methods of altering state. I'm not even great with expressing it. But I know what this is. I don't always achieve it, but I know it's there.


PS. What in the world are you doing up in your time zone?



ARIES83 -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:00:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Disappointed in My response..... or yours?

Dude, don't do that to yourself. Heck, I've had people tell Me that I'm not a real Domme because I get toppy. According to them, it means I am not in control and therefore, not a Dominant.

And, just because you never have doesn't mean you never will. The possibility is always out there.

This isn't a goal to achieve. As long as you are concentrating on that concept, you'll never get it.



I'm not devastated or anything haha, just
yer, haven't experienced that, but it sounds
very cool. I might be missing out.

I probably would never go there, I'd probably
get addicted to it! and believe me I'm quite
scary enough already.

-ARIES



Kana -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:13:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Piling on to LP's comments, I also spent lots and lots of time with meditation, eastern philosophy, zen, martial arts and shamanism so I'm pretty familiar with trance states.
Well that, and when I was a kid, I did lots and lots of drugs.[8D]
As in so many that I won't discuss it on a public forum lest you think I'm a liar or Keith Richards

PS-LP-I meant "Oh, Dog Piss" as an exclamatory remark of surprise, nothing negative or dubious :-)

Ah.... Exclamatory in familiarity. Got it. I shouldn't be surprised.

It's funny, in a way. Very few will recognize space from the top side (it makes us weak) or, heaven forbid, drop. Some are so wrapped up in "the Image" (tm).

I admit, I haven't studied other methods of altering state. I'm not even great with expressing it. But I know what this is. I don't always achieve it, but I know it's there.


PS. What in the world are you doing up in your time zone?


I napped earlier this evening with the lilone so I'm all wide awake.

I didn't really know I was going into the space at first. Recognition came mostly because of the crash-I couldn't ignore the influx of emotions, especially when I was new and was wrestling with serious questions, fun questions, things like

-What kind of man likes making girls scream?
-What kind of person likes hurting the ones they love?
-Doesn't this make me an awful person?
-Doesn't this mean I'm totally FUBAR as a human being?

And so on...and as a result, I felt lots of shame and guilt that was real tough to get through and I would crash real hard, as in two/three day depressions.
And of course, once I knew I was crashing, that meant I was crashing from something, which led me to exploring my own top trance (Note-this was all way back before Gore invented the net and munches were everywhere-I had to sort it out on my own and with the gals I played with-thank God for them)-once I was alerted to it, it was easy to spot.
Since I've resolved those inner conflicts, the crash doesn't come as often now, plus it's not so much as a soul scouring thing as just a harsh return to reality from a higher place.

As for sharing openly and honestly about it, and not worrying about what might happen to "The Image (Patent Pending)"-To quote The Immortal Senator Clay Davis, "Sheeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiit,"- since when have I given a fuck how others perceive me?
I've been locked up, stabbed, shot at, homeless, addicted, neglected, dejected, rejected, declared dead, broken damn near every bone in my body- after all that, I mean really, am I supposed to care what some whack jobs on the net think of me?

What's the line about Tyler Durden, "No fear. No distractions. The ability to let that which does not matter truly slide."

That's me. I see what's important, clear as day. And so much of what others value, I see as dross. Lose everything, repeatedly, live with nothing for years, spend some time in solitary confinement with only bread and water for sustenance, and all of a sudden what much of the world sees as important I see as trivial vanities.

Believe me here-being dead:it changes your perceptions.

Plus, I have this irrational idea (I am a dreamer ya know. Behind the cold heart lies an idealistic romantic) that if I share my experiences openly and from the hip and heart, maybe others will too. A discussion might emerge, hell, someone may even learn something, see something of themselves in my words, think "Hey, I felt that. I feel that. That guys in my head.He's been there. He knows how I feel. And if he can walk through this, maybe I can too."

And now, ya know it's late, cuz I'm just babbling, talking de crazy talk...





ARIES83 -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:29:15 AM)

Declared dead?...




Kana -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:31:00 AM)

Si. Had the paddles of life slapped on me. And the $10,000 helicopter ride.

Edited to add-Hey-how else do you think one becomes Satan's right hand man and successor?



ARIES83 -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:42:03 AM)

Ooooh...
(as AliG would say...) Respect.



Kana -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:43:16 AM)

I should elaborate. It was nothing bad-ass. When I was around twenty, I got T-boned by a car doing 50, went through the windshield about twenty feet. Pronounced dead at the scene...



UllrsIshtar -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 2:48:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Pronounced dead at the scene...


No wonder you're so cold-hearted about the lilone's suffering. [:D]



CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 3:30:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Does anyone else have a type of "top space"
that you can get to and if so what is it for you?

-ARIES



Yessss. Several different types, and yeah, this was surprising. I was used to the chemical cocktail my brain cranked out over D/s having it's intense moments, and from flogging and mild bondage, etc. The D/s synergy alone can amp me up till I feel tunnel vision, in a Matrix-y way of having everything around me slow down...my skin seems to have another layer, one that crackles and hums with an almost static electricity. I always get evil drop if I don't have daily contact for about a week afterward. Having this type of relationship with someone gives me more energy for the rest of my daily life, and since the past chemos and cancer stripped away most of my energy, believe me, I enjoy having the energy boost so I can get more done each day. It also greatly reduces the frequency and intensity of my panic attacks. (Exception was with bo, as his facial hair and body type stepped on old scars and for the first few months I was having them half a dozen times daily, if not more often.)

Long sessions of thuddy flogging give me physical arousal, I call it my "girlie boner" but I think Masters and Johnson call it "orgasmic platform". I feel no need to put an end this feeling with an orgasm.

Exploring my sadism more deeply gave me different headspace...I was high but didn't get the crash and burn. Right now, I cannot remember HOW it's different, lol, but somewhere in these boards I did describe it...before bo, I topped someone I could feel no D/s bond with during the scene. Before then, yes. I was flying high and couldn't figure out why it was a different high from what I was used to.

Btw, I am going to have mentoring with needle play, fire play, and cell popping soon. These have always interested me but I didn't feel that I could learn enough on my own to be safe to do this to someone who is MINE. There were no friendly bottoms in my area who were experienced in these and could walk me through it. Anyway, funniest damned thing is that these past two months when someone in these message boards talked about needles or whatever, I get HIGH AS A KITE!!! LOL, bo has been standing beside me when I almost...cannot believe I am going to use the word swoon...but darn it, I cannot even stand up and can barely remain upright in my chair. It's nuts. What's a bigger laugh is that when bo has been at his piercer, though we invited two other sadists from one of our munch groups to watch his dangly bits being punctured...the piercer, our friends, all got high as a kite. All except me. If I were the one doing it, I would be flying, but when I am not the one piercing my slave I am...too alert, focused on everything all at once, like I'm on guard duty and something/someone might appear out of the blue to threaten him. *laughing at self* I. Cannot. Turn. This. Off. Aargh!

This past month I've learned that I get entirely different headspace during strapon play. I wasn't expecting that. I've been into ass play ever since I was 17...and I am still puzzling over how in the world this can be any different from what I've already done. But...somehow it is. I'm also at a loss on how to describe it, and all I can say is that it's not. There's no static electricity type energy flowing over my skin. No physical arousal. When I'm done I almost feel like smoking a cigarette (stopped smoking over 23 years ago). Normally I don't think of him as "my bitch"...but yeah, in this moment I definitely do, and part of me wants to smack his thigh or butt cheek and tell him to go get me a beer, lol. (I don't drink beer either.) Maybe LP is right about pheromones, and I am enjoying this strange new headspace because of who I'm with and not simply from what I'm doing.

I tend to take care of subs after a scene and neglect myself. Recently I crashed and burned physically, not mentally nor emotionally, and had to fall into bed. I needed to rehydrate and to have something sweet, but I couldn't manage to tell bo to get me something. I woke up with a colossal migraine that only lessened after I drank four mugs of tea/juice/water/koolaide. It's never hit me that badly before and I will have to be more careful in the future.

Next time I'm flying, I'm going to look into a mirror...cuz now I'm curious if my eyes change color and if my pupils get bigger, lol.



sheisreeds -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 5:09:43 AM)

It isn't really a "Top space" for me. There is a huge difference between my dominant sadist space, my sadist, and my switch space. in all I am active. Just being a sadist doesn't do much for me, it's why at this point I have NO desire to play outside of my relationship. The longer we're together the more that desire lessens because the depth of the pool we get to jump into when we play just gets deeper and deeper. I've always been a fan of deep water.

When I am purely dominant in those moments I own every bit of him, and he in essence becomes a breathing, heart and soul connected to me. I definitely "hyperfocus" though not everything else disappears. If there is music I move with it seamlessly. Everything falls into the dance, everything feels within my control. There is no thought, all my brain chatter stops. All I feel is him, whatever tools I am using also become extensions of me. I feel everything so acutely. I love when essentially I know how he will move, scream, writhe and moan. At a certain place these things all become one, they all become known.

Though a less controlled space, I also love switch space, aka the fighting space, when everything hinges on that "Oh Shit!" moment, I'm only king of the hill as long as it takes to knock me back down again. The whole environment stays in more vivid color longer, as I don't know where he is, what's he's doing, what I will have to block next. Anything I can grab feels like potential salvation. Every moment is spent tuned into the next strike. The process is a torrential learning curve, that advances each time, and soon our moves become more predictable and in sync. The absolutely absurd and crazy dies down, and we are giving and taking away everything we can from one another. Like we are trying to consume one another, and at the best times we succeed.

On my eyes? I know they dilate, and when we've left to go play they are usually super bright green, or blue. They tend to be greener when I'm more on the sadistic side. Never really paid attention, as my eyes change color all the time.

On drop? I tend to never experience pure "top drop", usually it's "switch drop" which feels like the worst hangover in my life. We always go out of our way to make a big breakfast and take good care of each other after really heavy play.

Sub drop just leaves me contemplative and spacey, switch drop feels like most of my brain cells have browned out.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 6:28:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

I've bottomed for sadists, but I am no masochist (a little pain punctuates the pleasure, but here I am talking about serious output). In fact, receiving pain makes me resist submission. I get feisty and angry. While I'm sure dominant sadists would find my squirming, cursing, and tugging at my bindings displeasing, a power-exchange neutral sadist never seems to care. The sadist seems to like these expressions of suffering.

The corollary of my anecdotal finding is that a dominant sadist deeply enjoys a submissive accepting the pain, but controlling the response. So while I might be screaming at full force into a gag so the neighbors don't call the police again, a submissive who is better trained and a masochist exhibits suffering, but keeps their pleasant demeanor.

Does that juxtaposition help?



I can't say I agree with your definitions as stated here, I *can* say, whatever kind of dominant sadist I am (b/c I am surely both) I appear to switch back and forth between your two definitions so fast it hardly matters. What does matter to me is the response I am getting. Sometimes I want resistance, sometimes I don't. Like many, I aim for a rollercoaster ride of reactions in my submissive.

As to that high some of us get, it's the closest thing I have ever experienced to pure meditative space. I can't properly meditate, and yes I have tried. I have been "into" Eastern culture and philosophy for 40 years now, have been doing yoga for that long, and have been taking stabs at meditating for that long. And I have a mind that *needs* to meditate, since turning it off would be a huge help to me.

The closest I get to meditating (other than my dominant/sadist high) is playing my Mahjong game on Pogo. It's still thinking, but it's simplistic enough thinking it helps me to quiet my brain. (Himself *does* tell me, "Go play Pogo.")

Okay, as to that high: Though it starts out feeling like I had a glass of good Chardonnay in the afternoon, as things progress it goes into a pure coke high. My mood becomes buoyant, and I don't feel any of my own physical pain. There's an omnipresence to every move I make. I'm so inside my sub's brain, I *know* it's the right move at the right time. There is NO thinking at this point, there is just doing, and enjoying the reactions, which leads to more doing, and more enjoying.

Physically, my eyes are so hugely dilated, you can hardly see the blue, and all the stress lines smooth out of my face.

Also, I lose track of time, as well as my normal acute sense of situational awareness.

I also DO NOT like to be interrupted. On the rare times this has occurred, I'm like a whore who's lost her crack pipe, VERY cranky.

There is a reason I call it a high. And yes, I can drop from it badly, though not often. I tend to go for lots of hydration, carbs, and chocolate.

Great thread topic, BTW.






LadyPact -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 9:01:18 AM)

Kana, one on these days, you and I have to have a drink together. If you don't drink, I'll settle for any coffee shop that serves diet pepsi. Just expect to be there for a while.

As a later in life sadist, and from being a Dominant first, I didn't have it as rough as you did. Yeah, I was shocked that day that sadism kicked in. I still have the toy that I picked up that first time that made Me feel like power ran through My veins and sadism was something I actually wanted. It was easier for Me. I had a frame of reference to help Me along. Also, as much as I don't like saying it, being female made a difference.

I'm at a loss to say whether it was Jay or John who has that great passage in their writings about "The Beast Within". That helped Me so much in accepting sadism. All of those bullet points that you have above? Yeah. I get that. Those books helped Me in doing so. Being a chick didn't give Me a complete "get out of jail free" card. What I'm trying to say is it must have been a heck of a lot more difficult for you than it was for Me.

Cynthia..... YES! YES! YES! Damn, I told you so! I'm so completely thrilled! I knew it would happen. That probably won't make sense to the average reader. Oh well.

CP, absolutely. Losing time is another tell tale sign for Me. I can't tell you how many times I didn't know what time it was when I was done playing. I can loose hours at a shot. You describe it very much in the way that it is for Me. If your high carries into the next day, shoot! Have that glass of chardonnay then! Just trust Me.



sexyred1 -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 9:49:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

1 - I spank her (samdarella) every morning. It puts her in her place and reinforces her mindset. It is an act of Domination reinforcing and reminding her of her role position to me.

2 - I spank her every morning because I am a sexual sadist. It makes my cock hard and gives her something nice to sit on or suck on.

3 - I spank her every morning because she is a sexual masochist and it makes her cum.

4 - I spank her every morning because it is a romantic soft sweet affectionate expression of a gentleman sadist and his masochistic lady.

5 - I spank her every morning because sometimes the spanking becomes the foreplay to a violent lustful encounter that ends brutally using paddles, whips, canes and etc leaving us both spent in a puddle of cum and blood.

6 - I spank her every morning because the ritual is tangible proof of our dedication to each other. Proof of my dedication as a sadistic Dominant lover. Proof of her dedication as my submissive masochistic lover. It is our "duty" to each other.

7 - I spank her every morning because I wake up with a wonderful spankable sexy women in my bed. Did you expect me to leave a sexy naked slave who is a sexual masochist just laying there naked? When she brings me breakfast in bed and sucks my cock while I drink coffee, shouldn't that behavior be rewarded with positive reinforcement like an erotic spanking? If there is no quid pro qou, it's not an exchange is it?

8 - I spank her every morning because there isn't a better way for us to start the day. I am a simple man, basic, primal by some standards (yes I read that thread). Bring me food, give me sex, give me your love, your pain and your pleasures. By the time we have eaten breakfast, we start our day well loved, well fucked, well fed and we're both on top of the world.

9 - I spank her every morning because it is a long lasting mood enhancement. The fact I woke up with a dedicated slave that has obeyed me as Master and satisfied me as a man with food and sex is an unalterable fact. No matter what chaos the world conjures up, no matter what happens, we started this day on center, reaffirmed about who were are to ourselves and to each other. It charged up our emotional batteries and our fortitude. Nothing can happen to change that fact and it allows us to make everything a pleasant adventure. Even the silliest disaster can't change our mood. Even if something awful happens that makes her cry, with a touch or a word, I can lift her up. She may be smiling while the last of her tears roll down her cheeks but she is in the spirit of adventure, not sad. It is because our bond is that tight, that fresh, it is reconnected and reaffirmed daily. I have also refrained from killing assholes that would have irritated me if it weren't for the fact I was in just too good of a mood to be bothered.

10 - I also stick her with needles, whip her, strap her, cane her and etc. Those encounters can vary in motivation and extremes but that is for another reply because although they are also bonding as far as our exchange goes, they aren't the foundation of the TPE bond. They are the icing on the cake.


So there you have a peek at just one of our rituals that involve my sadism, her masochism and how the painful but erotic acts interface with our style of TPE. I hope this answers your OP with some clarity by micro focusing on just one ritual.


Wonders why there are no men like RS in NJ......[sm=river.gif]



AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 10:13:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

I've bottomed for sadists, but I am no masochist (a little pain punctuates the pleasure, but here I am talking about serious output). In fact, receiving pain makes me resist submission. I get feisty and angry. While I'm sure dominant sadists would find my squirming, cursing, and tugging at my bindings displeasing, a power-exchange neutral sadist never seems to care. The sadist seems to like these expressions of suffering.

The corollary of my anecdotal finding is that a dominant sadist deeply enjoys a submissive accepting the pain, but controlling the response. So while I might be screaming at full force into a gag so the neighbors don't call the police again, a submissive who is better trained and a masochist exhibits suffering, but keeps their pleasant demeanor.

Does that juxtaposition help?


Hmmm not entirely sure I agree with you either here.

My husband is a dominant sadist. He's not particularly bothered about me controlling the response, and I'm certainly not pleasant when I'm in pain. He enjoys the reaction, even if I'm screaming and kicking and jumping off the floor between every strike, because that suffering is for him. Which is lucky, because no matter how much I want to submit I just can't control my fight-or-flight reaction.

OP- as for why he does it... I guess he would say he does it because it makes his dick hard. I can go on and on about how D/s brings us together and strengthens and fulfills us, but the sadism is pretty much a sexual thing. I get off more on the fear of the pain than the pain itself, and also the whole 'enduring for him' aspect.

D/s and sadism aren't entirely separate in our relationship - I would say he would still want to dom me without the sadism, but wouldn't want to hurt me without the D/s element behind it.




BambiBoi -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 10:36:25 AM)

I recognize that my findings are anecdotal and limited to my experiences. My relationships never lasted with dominants who wanted to inflict pain but have me accept it like a bad action movie henchman who cuts off his own finger to exhibit his obedience. It's good to see other people have tops that are both dominant and sadistic who don't mind the uncontrolled physical reaction.

I can't do it, though. After a few bruise-bringing spanks I am ready for a net shift in roles. Normally I want to please, and a dominant does not have to continually establish dominance over me. But strike me too hard and you'll have to use wits, strength, or leverage to retain your dominance. The will to please is replaced with a hunger to make things balanced. But by balanced I mean me standing up, grabbing the top by the throat, and saying "kneel" with all the charm of Hades. So, in a way, I skip subspace and go straight to top-space. It's never gotten to that, I'd probably safe-word out first, but the thought has been there.

As you could understand, many dominants don't care for that wolf-like reflex in a "pet."



Kana -> RE: Sadism & Power exchange. (8/20/2012 11:00:00 AM)

quote:

D/s and sadism aren't entirely separate in our relationship - I would say he would still want to dom me without the sadism, but wouldn't want to hurt me without the D/s element behind it.


Oh ko. This is beautiful. I wish I had written it. I wanna steal it



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