RE: Just an issue of communication?

RE: Just an issue of communication? (Full Version)

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ARIES83 -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 4:32:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst Like you, I never mention limits such as kids, animals, or death, because for me those things seem ludicrous. I mean, WHY would I choose anyone who had mentioned those interests. I do have limits, I just never say those are among them because it is beyond my reasoning to think I could be with anyone like that. However, I can see why people might insist on including them when they naysay people who say they have no limits. Why? In my early days of discovering this stuff I had already been doing was considered perversion AND lol I could find it on the net I had the occasion to meet quite a few people in person, or have long conversations with them over months or years. And indeed... I was approached by a "gentleman" who enjoyed seeing his women pleasure his dogs. One guy who I spoke to for a while since we shared a common interest in watercolor, disclosed he had a fantasy about being with a mom and daughter. When he asked how old my daughters were I decided our love of art was not sufficient to maintain contact with him. I met a man who insisted that his woman MUST be hairy, the hairier the better even if it mean taking hormones or what ever to increase that potential. I shared a few drinks with a woman who had the ends of two of her fingers and one toe lopped off by gardening shears by her husband because he was sadistic and she was his slave to do with what he wished. She told me he kept a machete between his mattress and boxspring to remind her that her life was in his hands. And she expressed she fully expected to die at his hands. This was expressed very matter of factly, as if she was not only resigned to it, but had decided if her life was to end she wanted him to have the satisfaction. You state your limit is bondage, but it looks like you never mention that when people bring up limits, probably because for you it is a non issue. Your mate has been made aware and is in willing agreement with you on that matter. I state I do have limits because I am female to female phobic and it is rare to find a man who does not have that curiousity. No matter what male I choose as my mate I make sure that I state that limit up front because without that in place we could not go further. Limits for me are discussed up front, or if you are together for a while, as they occur because someone suddenly got a wild hair to try it. I actually never knew I had a limit about having someone pick me up until my honeymoon. I do think we all have limits but if someone states, "I have no limits" to me that means either they have never done a thing, OR that they, like me, have chosen a mate that has been carefully vetted for oddities during courtship. lol and I guess it might also mean they are like that woman I met with 3 severed digits who was willing to play out her kink till it took her life, with her mate who in my opinion was bat shit crazy. I tried to cut off a bit of your post, but couldn't deside which bit I liked the best so I had to put the shears down and quote the whole thing. -ARIES I think Missokyst meant that things like death as a limit should really be a given, but there are wackos out there so I can see people wanting to make sure the wakos know to stay away

angelikaJ -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 5:31:40 PM)
I never had much of a formal discussion about limits in my current relationship with the Man who became [my] Master. Simply put, I didn't know myself well enough to know what my hard limits were beyond 2: breath play for a reason that He got from my personal history and paper (multisensorial aversion). He did have limits which He verbalised though: He specified that I never give up the right to say no and He gave me safe words that He had to trust I could and would use if needed. I have a friend who was briefly in a relationship with someone who told her that if she ever used her safe word for STOP then their relationship would be over, period. The hard limits I mentioned, in time have shifted. As for the need to list the logical unmentionables, people will send you invitations to engage in them and it doesn't matter how aberrant or illegal it is.

NuevaVida -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 6:42:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist NuevaVida. What to say lol. I can remember when you were in the relationship that you mention from the past, and it amazes me how far you have come from your previous thoughts. It really boils down to discovering who I was instead of continuing to be what others wanted me to be. I kinda like being myself, better lol. quote: quote: When I see people adamant about Limits or No Limits, to the point of getting emotional or angry about it, I think they're holding tight to a belief they have to have, because they don't know how to process believing otherwise. What you said here is really interesting. I have never thought of it in those terms before. To tell the truth, I would be very interested in how others react to this statement. I honestly don't expect anyone to post to that statement, and if anyone does, I suspect it would not be a favorable one. People tend to not like having their belief system questioned. It feels threatening, and can understandably cause feelings of defensiveness. At least that was always the reason for my past reactions.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 6:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: When I see people adamant about Limits or No Limits, to the point of getting emotional or angry about it, I think they're holding tight to a belief they have to have, because they don't know how to process believing otherwise. What you said here is really interesting. I have never thought of it in those terms before. To tell the truth, I would be very interested in how others react to this statement. quote: I honestly don't expect anyone to post to that statement, and if anyone does, I suspect it would not be a favorable one. People tend to not like having their belief system questioned. It feels threatening, and can understandably cause feelings of defensiveness. At least that was always the reason for my past reactions. See, I would *love* to comment on this but it might constitute off-topic for this thread but both of those statements are *very* interesting to me. Peace and comfort, Michael

ARIES83 -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 7:58:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: When I see people adamant about Limits or No Limits, to the point of getting emotional or angry about it, I think they're holding tight to a belief they have to have, because they don't know how to process believing otherwise. What you said here is really interesting. I have never thought of it in those terms before. To tell the truth, I would be very interested in how others react to this statement. quote: I honestly don't expect anyone to post to that statement, and if anyone does, I suspect it would not be a favorable one. People tend to not like having their belief system questioned. It feels threatening, and can understandably cause feelings of defensiveness. At least that was always the reason for my past reactions. See, I would *love* to comment on this but it might constitute off-topic for this thread but both of those statements are *very* interesting to me. Peace and comfort, Michael I don't think it would be a good idea to go down that line of reasoning... For one: It doesn't speak to highly of the people on either side... that one side dosen't know enough or isn't experienced or smart enough to believe what the other believes, and that the other side is so sure of their belief, Intelligence and experience to make the above assumptions. And secondly: It's probably true. -ARIES

DaddySatyr -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 8:03:15 PM)
My comments would not have paralelled yours. I'll just look for the topic on a new thread. Peace and comfort, Michael

ARIES83 -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 8:13:24 PM)
Just make one... What's the topic anyway?

NuevaVida -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 8:24:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 It doesn't speak to highly of the people on either side... that one side dosen't know enough or isn't experienced or smart enough to believe what the other believes, and that the other side is so sure of their belief, Intelligence and experience to make the above assumptions. For those to whom it holds no relevancy, there's no reason for a response. This is just my own opinion of what might be behind some of the more emotionally charged posts on various "no limits" threads. I have no idea what people believe, other than what they state in those particular threads. Any time I become emotionally charged over a question or a statement, it's been because I feel defensive or protective over something internally. It's my first indication to look inward, to see what's up with me. In any case, IrishMist asked why we think people respond in threads as they do, so I did [:)]

ARIES83 -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 8:34:20 PM)
I agreed with everything you said, all I am pointing out is that while people can discuss what they beileve all day long (if both sides are openminded) the moment you start questioning why they believe it, that's when it gets personal. You should check out Staunch Sounds like an interesting topic. -ARIES

KnightofMists -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:04:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Which brings me back to the original question. WHY do we walk away from prospective partners simply because they state 'I have no limits'. Why do we not, instead, take the time to discuss WHAT each of us considers to be limits and why we see them that way? Just curious...and being way too introspective for this early in the morning Well...do we..? I have to wonder if this is just the red flag that is waved and it's the further discussioin that puts the x on the indivdual as a potential prospect. Sure a few might just say away out right from such individuals because fundamental they don't believe in the no limits view point. So from that perspective it seems rather appropriate that they see that red flag as a deal breaker. To me this is no different than a person saying they want a same sex partner. Seems silly for me to cast my lot into the pot for such an individual. We all have our core things for an acceptable potential partner or things that rule out potential partners. I see this issue as no different

ARIES83 -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:24:40 PM)
A sub telling me she had no limits would be great, but just because she had no limits dosen't mean I'd go crazy freaky and bring chainsaws into the bedroom. I'd still be me with my M.O. and limits, I guess it would say to me shes open to try anything once, or has tried everything and is a freak, either way doesn't effect me, I'll still do what I do and if it's to tame for her, I guess it won't work out, or maybe it will. No point making assumptions about someone till you get to know them. If it's a Dom saying it... I duno, do Doms say that? -ARIES

JanahX -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:26:58 PM)
quote: If it's a Dom saying it... I duno, do Doms say that? Im not sure if they state they have no limits or not, - but there sure are a lot that are looking for no limit sub/slaves.

littlewonder -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:31:19 PM)
When I tell people I have no limits, I try to explain to them that I don't because Master's limits are my own and we are so compatible that limits are not even a concern. It becomes a moot point. And then people bring up, "well what about kids? What about him killing you?". Once that starts, I roll my eyes and walk away because it says that the person is extremely paranoid and thinks the worst of all people. These are the people who are too scared to to go anywhere because someone might rape them or rob them, etc...they become suspicious of everyone for no reason except maybe they saw it on the news so many times or because they were hurt by someone in their past. I personally refuse to live my life like that. I don't feel a need to go through a laundry list of "I won't allow him to do something with my kid or around kids. I won't allow him to kill me or cut off a limb" because they are such preposterous ideas that it just becomes a joke. I don't really think it's a communication problem as it is a paranoia that pervades these types of places.

NuevaVida -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:37:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I don't feel a need to go through a laundry list of "I won't allow him to do something with my kid or around kids. I won't allow him to kill me or cut off a limb" because they are such preposterous ideas that it just becomes a joke. But are they a joke? In another thread you said your trust in him was such that he could chop off a limb. You said it quite seriously, too. So perhaps because limb chopping is actually brought to the table as a serious option, that's why others feel the need to state it as a limit. I've seen almost every item on the "Obvious List" talked about in CM threads as a serious option, not just your limb chopping statement. Even if they're rare occasions, that they are brought up as viable options would likely have others writing them down as "Not for me, thank you very much!" Dontcha think?

Missokyst -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:42:07 PM)
Thanks. I view death as a limit that is so obvious to me it doesnt need to be said. I would't be associating with anyone who had that sort of mindset. For me it is a survival skill I had to learn. One.. because I was nearly kidnapped and who knows what might have happened if I had not learned the skills to spot danger and find my way out. There are indeed wackos out there. I choose to get to know someone really well before putting my safety in their hands. quote: ORIGINAL: ARIES83 I think Missokyst meant that things like death as a limit should really be a given, but there are wackos out there so I can see people wanting to make sure the wakos know to stay away

littlewonder -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:44:24 PM)
Yes I said I would chop off a limb if he told me to because I would know he had an extremely good reason...for example, if I had to cut off my arm in an accident to save my life, yes I would do that. But what's the likelihood of that happening? A one in 100,000 chance?? When I was single I never said I was no limits but I never stated limits either. I simply said I would like to get to know the person and we would see how compatible we are and go from there. If our morals and values and such matched, it's most likely that our "limits" would match as well to the point it would be a moot point. It wouldn't even need to be discussed. I don't think I ever remember once discussed limits with Master. He simply said I have no limits and I said "ok". I trust him. I know him. I know his thoughts and views and feelings. I know how he operates as a human being, a man, a son, a brother, as Master. But when people start talking generically about they wouldn't allow someone to chop off their limbs, I just automatically think they are being overly paranoid and they don't trust people and they automatically think the worst of everything and everyone.

NuevaVida -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 9:51:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder But when people start talking generically about they wouldn't allow someone to chop off their limbs, I just automatically think they are being overly paranoid and they don't trust people and they automatically think the worst of everything and everyone. That's a really extreme view of people, in my opinion, but I get that you think that way. And yes, I understand it's a very rare likelihood that he'd cut a limb off, but my point is that it is brought up in threads as a serious, non-joking possibility, so people on the outside feel the need to state "Not for me." It's no longer on their "obvious" list.

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/19/2012 10:49:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist Which brings me back to the original question. WHY do we walk away from prospective partners simply because they state 'I have no limits'. Why do we not, instead, take the time to discuss WHAT each of us considers to be limits and why we see them that way? I don't walk away from someone when they say they haven't any limits. I will throw out some ideas to them and see whether or not they nix them, because I feel that everyone has some kind of limit(s). Along with other activities, I will throw out things like death and dismemberment, kids and animals because, if it's possible, there will be some sick fuck out there that does do/wants to do it. I remember, when I was a sub and getting to know a particular "Master," one day he told me he'd expect me to let his dogs F me. I bolted as far away and as fast as I could. There are people out there who really do these things, so I did/still do feel the need to list those things as limits. Even as a Dominant, I have hard limits listed and, the ones CM doesn't list as options, I have written right into my profile in big bold red letters. When I meet someone and we're talking about likes/dislikes/limits, I will come right out and tell him what my limits are and then ask him about his. I feel if someone says he has none he's either just new, trying to impress me, or a liar. The first is not a problem and we could explore further. The second, don't try to impress me, just be honest. The last, well, that's total incompatibility. I say I have a list, but I just use it for note-taking. I don't present it to the man to answer, I just use it as my own reference during the "limits" conversation to make sure I don't miss anything. NBMG

JeffBC -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/20/2012 7:24:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist The friends you mention...do any of them participate to the degree that you and your young lady do..or at all? Or are they just friends who happen to know what you do? These are all my kinky friends. So they are all "in the community" much more than me. They are all long-term (or at least thinking in a long-term mindset) M/s couples. They are all physically kinkier than Carol & I. Their "degree of D/s" (as measured by my own highly subjective eyes) tends to be near us although there are a few where I'd assess it as significantly lighter. quote: ORIGINAL: Ladypact When you see the word "partner" around these threads, you think life partner. Those of us who play casually or without a relationship commitment are more likely to think play partner. It's a different mindset. It also sets off more warning bells when "no limits" is the response. AAAAAaaaahhh! Yes, of course. If I was thinking "play partner" I wouldn't want to take the time to go through a long and lengthy discussion about limits. I'd want a clear and concise statement of what was in and what was out so we could get to playing. I'd expect the bottom to be able to provide that. If some random bottom couldn't, then yes.... I'd have a lot of concerns over someone who said "no limits" to a total stranger. My head was in marrying space. So clearly, if I'm interested enough in some woman that I think marriage is on the table then one single word is not going to be enough to send me running... not without some investigation.

JeffBC -> RE: Just an issue of communication? (8/20/2012 7:31:51 AM)
quote: When I was single I never said I was no limits but I never stated limits either. I simply said I would like to get to know the person and we would see how compatible we are and go from there. If our morals and values and such matched, it's most likely that our "limits" would match as well to the point it would be a moot point. It wouldn't even need to be discussed disclaimer: Given LadyPact's observation, the following comments are meant from the perspective of long-term relationships, not play partners. That, I think, is where my head is at too. It's not that I object to the idea that there might be "limits". I'm pretty sure that I could dream up things to do to Carol that would send her running. I'm creative that way and if not I could always watch a few of the Saw movies for inspiration. What bothers me about the whole "limits" discussion is what it says about headspace right from the beginning. I won't do X, Y, & Z just seems like a pretty odd way to start a love affair. The reason Carol & I are "No limits" is not that there aren't any theoretical limits (see above). It's that our heads just don't work that way. We aren't looking to protect ourselves from each other.

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