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Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 6:44:41 AM

heartfeltsub

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A question came to mind from another thread, having to do with limits and in an effort to not disrail the other thread(s) on this topic, I would like to pose a question.

I have been on the boards for a while, mostly reading, not posting nearly as often as some others but I read and I remember what others have posted. And it is this behavior that raises the questions. I have watched, topics come up that are explosive and people who have posted defending the D or M type in their lives and His or Her behavior, but then after the relationship is over, their reaction to that treatment or their perspective has changed now that the relationship is over. Or maybe a better way to put it is that their perspective appears to have changed.

Behavior that they used to defend, now is described as something that was actually abhorrent to them. That sort of thing. And that leads me to wonder if it was really always abhorrent to them, or does the lack of the relationship make it abhorrent?

I am one who, inside a D/s or M/s relationship, just obeys. I do what is asked of me even if it is something that is over a stated limit. At the time of the request or command I don't seem to have the ability to say no. Afterwards, after the action is done I can and have gone back to the person and said, "You knew that was a limit to me, don't go there again ever or I am gone". But at the moment I don't seem to have the capacity to do that. Which is another reason for my question. Is it something like that, doing those actions?

I hope this is coherent given the other thread on communication, but if not I will try to come back and explain myself better.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts,
heartfelt

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 7:07:13 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

And that leads me to wonder if it was really always abhorrent to them, or does the lack of the relationship make it abhorrent?

When my ex D brought up swing clubs I was open to the idea but quickly grew to loathe them which I expressed to him but not to y'all cuz I hadn't found you yet.

You may be referring to relationships in which people were abused. In those cases, often time and space is needed before one can think clearly.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 7:14:33 AM

heartfeltsub

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It might be something like that. Thank you for your response.

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Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 7:33:49 AM

KnightofMists

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I think there are a lot of reasons why people have the rose colored glasses on when in the relationship and then put a dark pair on after the relationship is done. Putting the abuser/victim dynamics aside. I think there are people that tend to operate on those extremes. It's like they can't just keep that balance or middle of the road perspectve of things. This is their elationship and everything is absolutely perfect. It almost seems from there view they would be a bad partner to speak ill on a particular aspect of their dynamic. The other factor is some people are not to comfortable ditching their current relationship to a bunch of strangers. Any issues with in our dynamic stays with us. Frankly we don't have anything significant per say. I think the biggest the girls don't like would most likely be my cavalier attitude towards my own health. I am sure there are other things as well but these are not the business of others. I am sure if things ended, to ease the pain we might focus on alot of the negativity to get past the lost. To remember the good stuff is like throwing salt in the wounds. But truthfully I don't see our relationship ending. We are very happy in our bliss without the rose colored glasses on. I did have a relationship end about the time Kyra came in my life. Years after, I can't say there is much good to balance against the negativity. Damn little to be honest. While the relationship was on going there was a few that had some sense of the ugliness that was there. The rest of the world... It wasn't there business.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 7:34:08 AM

SongofSirens

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I think alot of times people agree to things because of emotion, fear of loss, and influence by another.
I did things in my relationship I normally wouldn't do because I was influenced and convinced, I was to set in my ways, to close minded, to opinionated, to influenced from my past, and I needed to be open, and told I was too argumentative for a sub. My job was to obey. Well fuck that. Unless your a doormat with no brain, zero self confidence, zero self control, zero care of your own needs, you shouldnt be a sub. I was trying to make something work that was SO WRONG.
I had a "big attraction spark", and I didn't want to lose it. I was argumentative because I didnt agree, and when I was quiet and just went along with the program, I harboured alot of resentment and I turned into a raging absolutely crazy bitch in the end.
Basically trying to be compatible with someone I just was not compatible with due to SPARK. I did things to keep one singular STRONG feeling, when everything else was so weak.
Absolutely a painful experience but I learned alot. Never give up yourself EVER, you will regret it. BUt with most things people have to learn them first on their own.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 7:41:30 AM

kalikshama

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I'm surprised you're allowed to post under this nick after admitting you created it to troll.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 7:49:51 AM

sunshinemiss

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People do the best they can. We all tell ourselves little lies toget us through. As for relationships.... I sometimes have told myself that I can handle it, I can deal with it (whatever "it" is) because I am sacrificing for something that is more important to me IN THAT MOMENT. And then when we step away and get some perspective, we can say, "dang, what a fool I was" because we can see the bigger picture.

It's like this: I hate cleaning up dog poo. It makes me actually nauseous. I may even gag / vomit. In that moment, it has to be done. So I do it. I don't like it, but I do it. When the walk is over, I wonder how I could stand it. Why would I, a grown woman, subject myself to something that makes me sick? WHy? Because the cuddles and love and such are worth it.

It's no different in relationships. We deal with stuff because the cost-benefit swings in the benefit side of things (whatever those benefits are). When we are out of the relationship, it does not benefit us to focus on the positive anymore... in fact we don't HAVE the positive from the relationship. So all those negatives - all the dog poo - get piled up in one big, heaping, smelly mess.

I think also that getting angry allows us to have energy during a potentially draining time (break up time) and keeps us going. Without it, we might end up in bed for days on end. Anger is the "I'll show you!" part that needs something to fuel it.

Does this make any sense? (It does in my head, but I'm pretty wiped out and avoiding bed)...

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 8:19:50 AM

SongofSirens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

People do the best they can. We all tell ourselves little lies toget us through. As for relationships.... I sometimes have told myself that I can handle it, I can deal with it (whatever "it" is) because I am sacrificing for something that is more important to me IN THAT MOMENT. And then when we step away and get some perspective, we can say, "dang, what a fool I was" because we can see the bigger picture.

It's like this: I hate cleaning up dog poo. It makes me actually nauseous. I may even gag / vomit. In that moment, it has to be done. So I do it. I don't like it, but I do it. When the walk is over, I wonder how I could stand it. Why would I, a grown woman, subject myself to something that makes me sick? WHy? Because the cuddles and love and such are worth it.

It's no different in relationships. We deal with stuff because the cost-benefit swings in the benefit side of things (whatever those benefits are). When we are out of the relationship, it does not benefit us to focus on the positive anymore... in fact we don't HAVE the positive from the relationship. So all those negatives - all the dog poo - get piled up in one big, heaping, smelly mess.

I think also that getting angry allows us to have energy during a potentially draining time (break up time) and keeps us going. Without it, we might end up in bed for days on end. Anger is the "I'll show you!" part that needs something to fuel it.

Does this make any sense? (It does in my head, but I'm pretty wiped out and avoiding bed)...

Running on anger is really not positive but Ive did it time and time again. I cant bear to feel the pain so I get angry so I can function. I get mad I move forward but later I generally reflect and can bare to feel sad later not then. Makes perfect sense to me.
If the dog shit is piling up and the dog is biting you not cuddling you, time for a new home.

< Message edited by SongofSirens -- 8/19/2012 8:20:43 AM >

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 9:27:07 AM

LadyPact

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I think it is change of perspectives. Many tend to be more accepting when the relationship is current. They need some distance to see the whole picture or how it matches up when the feelings don't run as high.

I've said this for years and I'll continue saying it. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if clip looked back and said he only did certain things because of a level of enslavement. Stuff that may seem like it was too much when he looks at it with the different perspective that he could acquire. There might be things he would see in a whole different way.

That's always a possibility for a sadist or a masochist.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 10:18:10 AM

Missokyst

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I am somewhat like you in that I find it very difficult to say no when in a relationship. Heck. I have trouble saying no even when the relationship ends. My failing is that I am submissive by training from very early on in my life. Learning to say no to people in general took a few years of counseling, but saying no to someone with whom I am attached to is DAMNED difficult. I cannot even discuss it with them after the fact any more. Frankly this lack in my my reasoning is what keeps me a loner more often than not. I know my limits and I am them.

As far as normal people go I think a lot of it has to do with anger. While within a relationship I have seen people do, or agree to things that to me would be way out of line. For instance being abused and have those images or videos posted online. Hell no. Yet, I have seen it. Look up Glenn Marcus sometime, his women were openly in tune with doing what ever he wanted for YEARS during online conversations. They often defended his actions, so much so, that the man who initially began to most of us as a wanker who had no real idea about bdsm and was just spouting BS.. to someone who people began to look at in awe and respect. He hadn't changed one iota, he just now had a few women back up and defend his claims. That is until the issue of pay broke the magic circle and suddenly all those things were abusive and controlling.

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 10:35:15 AM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SongofSirens

I was trying to make something work that was SO WRONG.
I had a "big attraction spark", and I didn't want to lose it. I was argumentative because I didnt agree, and when I was quiet and just went along with the program, I harboured alot of resentment and I turned into a raging absolutely crazy bitch in the end.
Basically trying to be compatible with someone I just was not compatible with due to SPARK. I did things to keep one singular STRONG feeling, when everything else was so weak.
Absolutely a painful experience but I learned alot. Never give up yourself EVER, you will regret it. BUt with most things people have to learn them first on their own.

That was me exactly with my ex. Great way of putting it. What makes me so angry at myself, is that I stayed SO LONG to keep that feeling while everything else sucked so badly, it finally ruined the great feeling and left me unable to forgive myself for being such an asshole.

My perspective is that I am not even mad at him, because he is what he is, I am only mad at myself for putting up with being treated the way I was.

I know with 100% certainty, that I will never put up with anything like that again, although I am pretty sure I will not get the opportunity to prove that.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 10:47:40 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Many people when they are very physically attracted to another, make the mistake of thinking better of the person than they actually are. This appears to be a human failing.

I read somewhere that it takes 8-9 months for the hormones to calm down enough for you to see the person as they really are, and by then, most of us are hooked.

If you have that submissive I like obey, to please and be found pleasing thing going on, then, yes, I do think it makes it harder to erect some of those boundaries.

I've often advised people to take it slow, go for reciprocal levels of commitment, all that smack, but really, who's going to hold onto their heart for 9 months? Not me.

Strive for good emotional health, in yourself and your partners, then pray for the love gods to be in your corner. That's good advise, too.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 8/19/2012 11:02:16 AM >

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 10:52:08 AM

sexyred1

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Good advice, but it actually took years, not 9 months for his true personality to kick in. It took about 4 years for him to start treating me badly, believe it or not, and then because I let him get away with crap, he kept getting worse. And I hung on anyway, because I fell in love with a phantom.

Even today, he says that I knew how he was when I met him and I say, no, I really did not because you revealed the sick part of yourself very slowly. And of course, because of the incredible chemistry, I put up with it.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 10:54:58 AM

NuevaVida

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A lot of good answers here so far.

For me, I don't look on the past angrily or with victim-eyes. I worked to understand why I did what I did in those relationships, and learned more about myself in doing so. I was able to learn what worked for me, and what will/will not work going forward. Time and distance allowed me to see and understand the affects it had on me (both positive and negative), and I could take that information and make better choices/create better boundaries, going forward.

Life is a learning process.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 12:42:19 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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Life is a learning process, and I no longer look at my past relationships as *failed* relationships. I look at them as opportunities to learn lessons that I evidently needed to learn.

Oh, how did you state it the other day? That you've come a long way and it's been an interesting trip? Sometimes, we *need* to take the scenic route to get where we're going.

And if we take the time to learn what we need to learn, it's all good, it's all what makes the super fabulous (not to mention humble) people we are today.

Like you, I didn't have the world's best childhood, or adolescence come to that, so for a long time I thought all my relationships fuck ups were all about me picking the wrong people. A lot of it *was* that, sure. Some of it was spectacularly good/bad chemistry.

Good for the sex, bad for the emotions.

I've since learned I can be great in a relationship. And guess what? I didn't get a brain transplant, and I didn't have years of therapy. I'm still the same, basic me.

But now I *am* with someone who doesn't push all my bad buttons. And I don't push his bad buttons. We have no need to. And yes, I do think he's a super hunk. What's the difference? A certain degree of improved emotional health, for sure. A better choice, for sure. But, a better emotional chemistry between us.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 1:55:03 PM

MissImmortalPain

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I really am starting to think I am the only cynic on collarme but if you really want to know why I think people do it I will tell you. Because for the most part when people get into realationships they all because overgrown kids. They want fun and they want to rush and they keep dreaming of how wonderful things will be. When a realationship ends they then because the unhappy overgrown kid who had their ballon popped on the playground by the kid that used to give them lolliepops. It doesn't matter if the ballon got popped because the kids were pushing each other around. It doesn't matter if the ballon got popped because someone forgot they needed to hold on to it. It doesn't even matter if the ballon got popped because the kid that was holding it triped over their own feet, landed on it, and did the damage themself. The only thing that matter is that the ballon is gone and most people would rather say it was someone elses fault. The only way you can make it someone elses fault is to find fault in that other person and then blame them.

Or if you would like me to make that a lot shorter...Yes, it is the lack of the realationship that makes "exs" fling horrific insults at each other.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 3:37:48 PM

heartfeltsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think it is change of perspectives. Many tend to be more accepting when the relationship is current. They need some distance to see the whole picture or how it matches up when the feelings don't run as high.

I've said this for years and I'll continue saying it. I wouldn't be surprised a bit if clip looked back and said he only did certain things because of a level of enslavement. Stuff that may seem like it was too much when he looks at it with the different perspective that he could acquire. There might be things he would see in a whole different way.

That's always a possibility for a sadist or a masochist.

Thank you LP, that is part of what I was wondering. I realize as KM and others have said being mad about a break up versus being in a relationship will change perspectives, some to a victimization like KM was talking about or some to a hardening like others have stated. But your comment on the level of enslavement is part of what I was curious about, how that impacts on what one will do or won't do and how one feels about it afterwards.

Thank you again,
heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 3:40:55 PM

heartfeltsub

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Thank you all for your replies. There are bunch of great answers.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to heartfeltsub)

Post #: 18

RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 3:58:30 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

I read somewhere that it takes 8-9 months for the hormones to calm down enough for you to see the person as they really are, and by then, most of us are hooked.

Lol, last time it was exactly 9 months but fortunately I was not hooked. Smoothest breakup ever.

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RE: Changing Perspectives - 8/19/2012 4:18:15 PM

slaveluci

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
My perspective is that I am not even mad at him, because he is what he is, I am only mad at myself for putting up with being treated the way I was.

Amen! That is exactly how I feel about my ex-husband and our relationship. "He is what he is" is so spot-on. But I had the power to get away and stop being treated like I was and I chose not to. Still today, I think back on things that happened. At the time, I knew they weren't acceptable and possibly even abusive but they never seemed AS WRONG as they do NOW when I remember them. It's not that they were OK when in the relationship and then became NOT OK afterward. They were NEVER OK, even then, I just suppressed my feelings, I suppose, until everything was over. Only now, years apart with no contact, does the impact of what really happened hit me and I see how awful things really were. Why did I EVER stay? Books have been written on that subject

luci

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