sunshinemiss
Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
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Ok – a lot of responses. Interesting to come back after a day and see what folks have been saying. I’ll respond to points for the most part rather than people.
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blah, blah, blah Castle Realm blah, blah, blah
While I don’t know anything about this stuff – I’ve certainly heard of CR but as far as I can recall never read any of it… I have, however, done some online chatting, and I even did role play years ago. Reality can be wayyyyyyyyyy different from role playing on line. There is a reason writers should write what they know rather than what they fantasize about.
Romance and all that is a great thing. I’m the first to admit that I love bodice ripper books. Do I think I’m going to step through some standing stones and find myself in the 18th century with a hot Scot there to fall in love with me? No. But I do appreciate the story.
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“giving a gift without expectation”
I don’t believe people when they say they give without expectation. Nonsense. You give someone a gift every year for their birthday and don’t get a “thank you” then you stop giving. You give someone a $3000 piece of jewelry and they give you a CD in return, there will be some hard feelings. You send people a Christmas card and never get one back, they come off your Christmas card list after awhile. Someone throws the cake you baked for them into the trash, I’m betting that they don’t get another cake. I totally don’t buy the giving a gift without expectation. That’s a bunch of bunk. Let’s be real.
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“I’m not a gift / my partner isn’t a gift / we are choosing to be together”
Ok, that’s fine. I just tend to see people as a gift in my life (gs). We often say “don’t make someone a priority who sees you as an option.” To me, this “gift of submission” is in that ballpark. I’m not going to be with someone who doesn’t respect the choice I’ve made.
By the same token, I wouldn’t expect a dominant person to continue giving their “gift of dominance” to someone who didn’t respect it and refused to obey. Sounds like a whole lot of frustration would pile up between the people.
I’m not going to be with someone who doesn’t recognize me for who and what I am. I believe that the best relationships are the ones where each person feels lucky to be with their partner. This is like that for me. Thanks but I’ve been in a couple of relationships where people treated me poorly, treated their dog better than they did me. They don’t deserve me.
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“lowering oneself / anyone can dominate”
Uh no. Everyone submits at some point – whether to their boss or their clients or their government… everyone submits. I don’t think I’m any more sacrificial than a dominant. It’s a natural thing. To be dominant would just about kill me. I’d hate all that decision making. I am sooooooooooo amazingly grateful when dominant people in my life run things. To me that is the real gift! I’m just being me and following when someone worthy run things (as *I* determine worthy – whatever that means. But like porn, I know it when I see it.)
Also, I’m a teacher. I am my students’ equal as a human being. They teach me at least as much as I teach them. We have different roles in the relationship, but we are still equals. The roles are not equal – I make the majority of the decisions, and if it all goes to hell in a hand basket, then I am also the one who pays the consequences. That’s not equality as in “the same”, but I darn sure am aware that if there were no students, there’d be no need for me.
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Jeff, you said, “it just reeks of pampered little princesses lounging about waiting for a worthy male to give their gift to.”
Now why is that wrong? I think waiting for a worthy male is a damn fine goal. Hell, I see people on here all the time talking about making a good choice for a partner. If you choose the right one to submit to, you don’t have to worry about all the limb chopping and other nonsense. Is that not the same thing? Yes, I’m gonna wait for a worthy male to share myself with. I’d be a damn fool to give myself to someone who is not worthy. Thanks, but I’ve walked down that path already a time or two. The whole “pampered little princess lounging” is not even in my realm of awareness, but the rest of it… hell yes I’m waiting for someone worthy. More importantly, perhaps, I’m doing my best to BE someone worthy that they would be willing to share their time / life / energy with.
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“Following one’s personality does not equal giving a gift”
I guess I’m a little new agey and all, but I *do* see it as a gift. I see it as some universey thing that I’ve been given. *FOR ME* it is perhaps even a bit of a mind fuck. This difficult “opportunity for growth” is actually a lesson from the universe to make my life better. That or G*d is just slapping me around. I’m gonna go for a gift of growth every time.
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“sex / sexuality is not a gift we give” / “It’s just who I am”…
I don’t know. There have been times in my life when I’ve gone a long time without sex. When it pops on by, it sure feels like a present. I’ve had too many bad experiences to not appreciate it when it’s good.
I’m actually humbled by this more than arroganted(?) by it. When I’m with someone, it’s a … It’s two fold for me. I have been given a couple of gifts from G*d (We all have after all) and I want to honor that. The times in my life when I didn’t, it was not pretty.
The level of love I have to give is a true gift (and a miracle) in my eyes. The same is true for being the more submissive partner in a relationship. It is a wonderful gift that I don’t have to make the decisions. Hallelujah! I’m so amazingly grateful when the other person is dominant and I can rest in my personality. I don’t expect it, and when it pops up, YAY!
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My POV is colored by an experience.
My mother basically died so that I could live. She was not supposed to have children – it would weaken and then kill her – and did. (As I’ve been told by the family … and she died when I was pretty young… and I’ve read up on how pregnancy would impact a woman with her level of medical issues… seems a little overly dramatic, but a fair point). I grew up with that knowledge; I live with that realization hanging over my head. I look at my life and I wonder, “am I living a life that is worthy of that sacrifice?” And don’t people say the same thing about soldiers who have died for our freedom? Are you worthy of that sacrifice? My life is a gift. I want people in my world who recognize that *AS I RECOGNIZE THE GIFT THEY ARE TO ME*
I think what I’ve come away with on this thread is semantics. (Of course).
Gratitude is a regular, daily part of my life. I heard a woman once praying who thanked G*d for a cold glass of water on a hot day. I remember how shocking it was that she was grateful for such a simple thing. I was a kid when I heard her pray that prayer. Since then I’ve often faltered, but I’ve tried to see the good in things, tried to appreciate even the worst of circumstances, tried to find the gift in everything. Perhaps, in actuality, this has been a double edged sword. While I don’t take things as much for granted – perhaps I ought to? - I’ve also been taken for granted more than I ought to have allowed.
I would be worried if my perspective were that I, SUNSHINE, AM SO SPECIAL. But that’s not it. For me, it’s that the people in my life are really amazing and wondrous. I feel so lucky to have them there. Their friendship is a gift to me.
I try not to take gifts for granted.
Am I always this romantic/flowery? Nope. But I do tend to have a bit of a poet's heart. I'm good with that.
Thank you for such an interesting thread.
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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14
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RE: The dreaded "Gift of Submission" debacle - 
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