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Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 1:52:55 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		In another thread this question was quite reasonable asked.  Many people still have problems in even understanding an online relationship, so to contemplate moving to online by choice must be way beyond comprehension, and I fully understand that.

I can only answer for myself, but I will try to explain how that happened to me.

I am 57 y.o. and have been in the lifestyle the majority of my adult life.  I need to qualify it a bit, because with were I lived there was no literature, clubs or any other source of information.  The internet didn't exist.  We learned together secretly as potentionally the only people in the world that shared this kink.  We started with what I guess could be called a bit of kinky bedroom bondage and developed over the years.

I have had a few major relationships over my life, I have been both a sub and a Dom and have always loved the constant learning as part of the life.

A few years ago I had been living overseas for 15 years, and with my mother approaching 90 y.o. I figured it was time to move back home for a while.  Not being in a relationship at the time I drifted into an online relationship.  I didn't look for it - it just happened.  I will shamefully admit that until that point I had all the same misconceptions about those online and had the odd snicker behand my hand.  WOW - was I wrong!

Without the physical presence I found I was concentrating far more on the mindset of my partner.  I guess like a blind person's other senses increase because of their lack of sight, I was noticing much more without the physical distraction.  Over the last few years I have learnt as much online as I did in my many years of a more physical oriented experience.  I am still learning and don't want to move from this environment in the forseeable future.  It is a challenge and its rewarding - far more than I could ever describe to another.

I have an online sub and she is here for far different reasons.  She is new to the lifestyle and exploring, but at the same time she is putting herself back through college to better her future.  With the demands of college, the studies, the parttime work to support herself - she does not have the time for a r/l relationship (vanilla or D/s).  We fulfill each other's needs and since we live half a world apart, we are unlikely to ever meet, but we are both perfectly content with where we are.

I hope this makes sense to those with an open mind ... I will be happy to expand on any area if asked.

Brosco

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Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.
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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 2:15:37 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I actually questioned another about online relationships a short time ago in another forum thread.

I have " met " women online. Early on in my venture into online ( after realtimne relationships D/s) I met one distant and clicked heavily. But I found the online rush faded very fast. A different situation than what you describe though. Our mutual intents being a more immediate realtime relationship. Not to be as it turned out. So I decided to end any sor of commitment. We had occasional online fun. Later we had 2 realtime very wondeful realtime encounters. Happy to say she found a great realtime man in her end of the country.

At first, the online was overwhelmingly real in our hearts and minds. Soon reality set us back to reality. Then a huge amount of frustration set in, as we spoke and described, but did not fulfill our actions. A little bit satisfied, but more and more left wanting.

I have heard those being satisfied with online. But I cannot square it with two being free to meet and consumate. But not doing it. It just seems to me, that every minute online is just another minute of frustration. This being the opinion of one free to take one to me, if she is free to be with me. Situations may deny even the concept of frustration of them. If I were in a more constrained situation, and online with another such one, it could be blissful release, rather than frustration. It is all point of view and where we are and where we hope to be.
Pen pals with prisoners?

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 2:39:24 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		Kedikat,

I fully understand the different reaction and the frustration you felt.  Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you created your own frustration by expecting/hoping it to turn into more.  In my situation I had/have no such expectations.  Having been away for 15 years I wasn't going to dessert my mother again in her final years.  In my current situation, my sub is hardly going to dump her studies with one year to go and fly half way round the world to meet me.

So the difference between you and I is the expectations we have from the relationship.  For me, having settled back with seeing the relationship for what it is I do not have any frustration.  Instead I am able to get the full benefit of exploring what we have.  I love what I am learning about how much more powerful the mind is over whips and chains.

Please forgive me, but if you get to know me I tend to love my little stories and analogies, so here is one to help describe this situation.

When I lived overseas I was constantly travelling to many countries.  Sounds glamorous I know, but anyone who has done this knows that a life consisting of airports, taxis and hotels is far from it.  Anyways, friends would ask me which was my favourite country that I visited.  My answer was consistant - "the one I was in!". 

In any situation it is easy to see the negative and be unhappy with where you are, but if you instead look for the positives, you can be happy and enjoy any situation.  That doesn't mean that one shouldn't look for more, but while ever a couple pine over what they are missing out on, they will also miss out on what they do have and could have enjoyed.

Brosco

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 3:02:49 AM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline 		Brosco...may i first say congratulations to you.  If you found something that works for you, than great!

On a personal note, i too found myself in an online relationship many moons ago.  Due to circumstances at the time, my emotional and mental state were not what i would consider at their best.  I unfortunately ran into a very dangerous person whom i have no doubt preyed on me for this very fact.  I can testify to  definate heightened senses with the lack of physical distraction.  So much so that i began questioning what was real and what was not....with his focus on mind control, he literally opened a pandora's box.  Strange thing is he was always the knight in shining armor rescuing me.  I have no doubt that he entrained me.  Thankfully a couple r/l meetings put things back in perspective for me.  I also had begun to heal and was able to see him for what he was.

I have no doubt this was an isolated situation and again, this was a dangerous person preying on people who found themselves in a somewhat weakened state.  I do not mean to suggest or infer that this is a common thing.  I am sure people have wonderful online experiences and they have their reasons for doing so...one bad experience was enough for me to never get involved again online other than as an introduction to a r/l meeting. 



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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 3:23:25 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for the response champagnewishes, and I do understand your point also:

quote:

I unfortunately ran into a very dangerous person whom i have no doubt preyed on me for this very fact.  I can testify to  definate heightened senses with the lack of physical distraction.  So much so that i began questioning what was real and what was not....with his focus on mind control, he literally opened a pandora's box. 


In D/s there is an exchange, and with trust you can open your mind to another.  It is very unfortunate that you ran into someone that abused that trust and my heart goes out to you.  It is even more unfortune that these abusers exist everywhere, offline as well as on.  Had you met this abuser at a munch, you would probably avoid munches in the future and run to the 'safety' of online.  In fact the first online subbie I met was doing exactly that.  She had been taken advantage of in r/l and was going to take time to trust a 'real' person again, but was missing the D/s part of her life and came to online to satisfy it.

Although this is a negative validation, you do show as to how powerful online can be.  (I hope you are over it now and don't see my comment as flippant).  It is amazing to see the online-knockers consistantly repeat that online cannot me real as there is no physical contact - but then use the predators and abusers as examples of why online should be avoided.  If online wasn't 'real', how could these people be a threat?  Or is it only predators and abusers that are 'real' online, and that just plain decent ordinary folk are fantasy?

Brosco

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Any Dom that believes he is in complete control ... has a very clever subbie.

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 3:25:15 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I can somewhat comizerate? with the going to other countries. I travel to exotic locales in my work. But it being work, ( airports/taxis/hotels etc)  it is not so exotic :) I do appreciate an aspect of my travel to other lands, ( encampments in the middle of nowhere ) that tourists miss. When I am there, I am a coworker with the people there. A very different and good way to meet and be with them.

As to the online aspect of relationships. I do see a definite dividing line on what satisfaction can be there, depending on the expectations going into it. I met such a kindred spirit online, but was seeking realtime. Thus, frustration. You however, whatever your expectations, get fulfillment online. That is great. Circumstance and wants are different for all. and satisfaction is different for all.

A question though. As good as your online is. Would you be happier to find a realtime that could fit to you? That does not mean the online is lesser. But would realtime be something you would seek? I can see online being the best outlet for some in their situations. But I suspect many that are carrying on good online relationships, might prefer the realtime. At some point, might your current online, evolve to a realtime?

< Message edited by Kedikat -- 6/11/2006 3:29:14 AM >

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 3:31:20 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Brosco, I'm happy that you're finding fulfillment.  I think online relationships must be the hardest to maintain, however, your expectations are not to move to real time so you don't have that pressure.

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 3:41:14 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

A question though. As good as your online is. Would you be happier to find a realtime that could fit to you? That does not mean the online is lesser. But would realtime be something you would seek? I can see online being the best outlet for some in their situations. But I suspect many that are carrying on good online relationships, might prefer the realtime. At some point, might your current online, evolve to a realtime?


A very good and fair question.

With my current it is extremely unlikely for reasons I have explained, it would be a minimum of a year away and even then very unlikely.  Its not even an option either feels the need to discuss.  We are happy where we are.  I state again, from my side, I am thoroughly enjoying learning more about the mindset without the physical distractions.  Now, I can't predict the future.  At some stage in my life I may want a relationship that has more physical contact... and that may be next week, month, year, decade ...  I have no clue.  But as of 8:40pm Sunday Nite (Australiam time), I am perfectly happy where I am.

Brosco


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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 3:42:58 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Brosco, I'm happy that you're finding fulfillment.  I think online relationships must be the hardest to maintain, however, your expectations are not to move to real time so you don't have that pressure.


Thank you bandit, and yes, I believe you are right - we are enjoying what we have :)

Brosco

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 4:00:19 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brosco

quote:

A question though. As good as your online is. Would you be happier to find a realtime that could fit to you? That does not mean the online is lesser. But would realtime be something you would seek? I can see online being the best outlet for some in their situations. But I suspect many that are carrying on good online relationships, might prefer the realtime. At some point, might your current online, evolve to a realtime?


A very good and fair question.

With my current it is extremely unlikely for reasons I have explained, it would be a minimum of a year away and even then very unlikely.  Its not even an option either feels the need to discuss.  We are happy where we are.  I state again, from my side, I am thoroughly enjoying learning more about the mindset without the physical distractions.  Now, I can't predict the future.  At some stage in my life I may want a relationship that has more physical contact... and that may be next week, month, year, decade ...  I have no clue.  But as of 8:40pm Sunday Nite (Australiam time), I am perfectly happy where I am.

Brosco



Well at that time and place that you are. That is a good thing :)
I have met and had physical relations with women I have met through online. One was completely for pleasure, and realised ahead of meeting. Upon meeting, there were hints of more...but more did not happen due to mental differences. The physical worked very well :) So it came and went as concieved with just a hint of disappointment. Still good friends, with maybe a fun time down the road. As I mentioned, one had the emotional/mental that was intense. We met twice after concedeing fulltime was not to be, and thoroughly enjoyed the physical times, and other things.
Others I have met online did not fire in realtime.
So I approach this online realm as the introduction to the full realtime. I have enjoyed the online leadup. But for me, it is the introduction only. It is interesting and somewhat envious to me that you find such a level of fulfillment in online. I wish I could do the same. Intellectually I can. It is great to interact on the forums with so many people on that level, in so many subjects.
My situation is so open and ready to have one, here and now, that to tease myself with the ones willing to go so far online, just leaves me frustrated.
Even the ones that I still chat with, but have gone further with in realtime, I now cutoff at the sort of " cybersex " level of chat. Frustration :)

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 4:08:45 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		By the way.
I separate this discussion from so many other online BDSM relationships. Yours and your partners seems quite different than many others that I would actually have issue with. Other types of online D/s relations I might scorn and challenge. You have expressed yours well. And I only question in ways to gain insight.

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 4:59:07 AM   
mayapple


Posts: 22
Joined: 5/1/2006
Status: offline 		I can relate to much of what you describe, Brosco.  I had an online relationship that was very satisfying for a time as we probed deeply into each other's minds and souls and exposed our own.  I felt no need or desire to meet him; like you, we lived in different parts of the world, but also we lived in different generations.  Online the age difference was largely irrelevant but it surely would have been a factor in real life.
 
We came to feel love for each other.  But every time I spoke of love, even though he confessed he loved me too, he told me it made him feel uncomfortable and it could not possibly be real since what we had was not "real."  I knew that if we had met in person we might have found we had each come to love a person that was in part the actual person and in part a figment of our own imaginations.  But I loved the person I had come to know online, even if I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and not coming face to face with his mortal flaws.
 
I entered the relationship with no expectations and even though he became the most important person in my life for awhile, we were not actually Dom and sub.  We were dear friends who sometimes took on Dom and sub roles, as roles.  But one thing I found was that when I expressed my true self fully in writing, I rarely if ever felt submissive.  I felt empowered and emboldened by the written word.  In many ways I was the dominant one when we were being our true selves.  But that was another learning experience too.
 
Ultimately I did become frustrated.  The thoughts and feelings stirred in me made me crave the real life experience of D/s.  I wanted to feel real ropes binding me.  I wanted to feel genuine submissiveness deep inside myself, not through role-playing.
 
It was real enough that the pain was incredible when things went bad after that.  Even if I had come to love a hybrid of reality and fantasy, the *feelings* of love and loss were all too real.  The shock of realizing a darker side of him was also real.  When he threatened to make things ugly in my "real world," the threat felt all too real, too.
 
Until that happened, the rapport we developed online was so special that I hoped it would last a lifetime, no matter what else was going on in our "real" lives.
 
mayapple
 

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 6:24:02 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

By the way.
I separate this discussion from so many other online BDSM relationships. Yours and your partners seems quite different than many others that I would actually have issue with. Other types of online D/s relations I might scorn and challenge. You have expressed yours well. And I only question in ways to gain insight.



Thank you.  I know and accept the way many see online relationships.  The reactions from many do make it so that you don't even want to contribute because at the very best, opinion from someone who is online is minimised, and sadly in some cases, the person gets attacked for his choice and the opinion ignored.

I have been on both sides the fence.  I know what I am missing, and I know what I am gaining, and most importantly, I know what is working for me.  I would never profess to know what is right for others, but I am happy to share what works for me with anyone interested to listen.

I have truly appreciated our discussion Kedikat.  I have absolutely no problem answering any question that you can divise, no matter how 'negative' it may sound.  If you have a question, just ask it.  In fact it was amusing, my sub and I went thru this thread together just a little while ago.  We both clicked on one thing - a discussion about online relationships that didn't turn into a bun fight..... amazing!!!  Of course it was started after many members had turned in for the night so maybe future posts will be different, but I appreciated the exchange we have had to date even with sitting on opposite sides of the fence.  To me, that is what discussion is about.

My sincere regards

Brosco

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 6:33:12 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting topic Brosco. I do believe that online relationships vary as much as people do. Why we do them, covers many reasons. I completely understand your reasons for having an online relationship and I’m sure everyone can respect a man that is limited in what he can do because of family obligations.

Why this is working for you is that you have your limits and expectations in place. That is great, until they change. LOL. I was in an unhappy marriage and didn’t see a way out of it. So, I played online as way to have a diversion and to fulfill some of the missing needs inside of me. That was going great and I kept online in its place and didn’t let it infiltrate my “real” life.

Then I met my Joe and everything changed. Our connection was so tangible and explosive that I quickly couldn’t imagine living without him. He was also in an unhappy marriage by the way, and had already decided on divorce before he met me. Our falling in love expedited our divorces, because like Kedicat said, the frustration of not being together was becoming overwhelming.  

So, I know you say this is working for you and it’s what you want. I just wonder what happens when you meet that submissive that you can’t live without. I bet you both figure out how to be together as fast as I did with my Joe.

Best of luck to you.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 6:37:09 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline 		mayapple;
[QUOTE]When he threatened to make things ugly in my "real world," the threat felt all too real, too.
quote:



I know that one....   I had a sub that went thru the phone book and harress my relatives (uummm... I have a unique surname...  all in the book with the same name are my relatives) and so my 90 y.o. mother was on the list.  My sister that had survived a 20 year domestic violence relationship was there too (try explaining to her the dif between D/s and abuse).  But that is nothing to do with online ...  you get the same in r/l.  Again though, the point is that online is real - unfortunately it can be just as nasty as r/l.

Brosco

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 7:01:36 AM   
Shayna


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/16/2005
Status: offline 		I understand completely your feelings about online, Brosco. I have had a number of online relationships (interspersed with offline ones) since '99. I've met people in many places, including online RPGs. I was introduced to the lifestyly by my first Dom whom I met online. I think online relationships demonstrate how much of our reality is created in our own heads, and not necessarily "in reality". I think that's why they can be so intense and difficult to give up for some: it's hard to dislike a fantasy that we've created about someone else. Very little reality intrudes, such as bad breath in the morning, keeping you up all night snoring, being annoyed cause your meatloaf didn't taste so great or being asked to get rid of your cat cause your Dom is allergic to animals (never happened to me, just thinking of possible conflicts.). Also, in my opinion, you can successfully create mentally a D/s dynamic long distance, but "play" just isn't the same. Having a Dom standing in front of me holding a crop menacingly is a completely different experience than someone asking ME to put handcuffs on myself. That part never worked for me. 

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 7:11:54 AM   
Brosco


Posts: 238
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shayna

I understand completely your feelings about online, Brosco. I have had a number of online relationships (interspersed with offline ones) since '99. I've met people in many places, including online RPGs. I was introduced to the lifestyly by my first Dom whom I met online. I think online relationships demonstrate how much of our reality is created in our own heads, and not necessarily "in reality". I think that's why they can be so intense and difficult to give up for some: it's hard to dislike a fantasy that we've created about someone else. Very little reality intrudes, such as bad breath in the morning, keeping you up all night snoring, being annoyed cause your meatloaf didn't taste so great or being asked to get rid of your cat cause your Dom is allergic to animals (never happened to me, just thinking of possible conflicts.). Also, in my opinion, you can successfully create mentally a D/s dynamic long distance, but "play" just isn't the same. Having a Dom standing in front of me holding a crop menacingly is a completely different experience than someone asking ME to put handcuffs on myself. That part never worked for me. 


Yep Shayna I can understand how it doesn't work for you - but since my D/s doesn't involve a crop (r/l or online) that example becomes irrelevent.  Why is it that everyone thinks that D/s is about pain, punishment, floggings, etc?  D/s is a mindset and the physical things are just tools  used by some.

Brosco

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 8:12:49 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have nothing against online relationships. They can only go so far and then it has to go real life. I have been through getting to know someone and some online domination. It moved real life. There was no comparing the two, but that did not mean the feelings I felt online were not real, feelings and emotions are always real... I was not looking either at the time.

I will still make my last point from the other thread.... People unthinkingly have submissives perform tasks on themselves like they are lab rats, and I do not agree with it. If you can't be there to gauge a sub's reactions perhaps you should question the things you do.. such as self flogging or pain play. Having a sub sit in a position for lord knows how long also could be detrimental. I have to say in person the people I have been with doing BDSM watched my face to see where I was... nuanced by the levels of pain and pleasure, they couldn't see this over the internet...

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 8:14:12 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		My question is - surely there is only so much you can do online - where in reality there are endless possibilities?????????
 
I in no way mean to be disrespctful in any way asking this - i am just plain curious.
 
Respectfully
misst xx

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

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RE: Going from reallife to an online relationship - 6/11/2006 8:31:35 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		What a lovely thread!  Thank you all, so much.  For what it’s worth, I will add my two-cents worth:

Some three years or so ago, I discovered D/s with a kiss; a real-time kiss.  The ‘Dom’, who I met on a vanilla dating site would or could not give me enough information for what had ‘happened’ with that kiss.  So, of course, I hit Google.  Mind you, I’d never heard of BDSM nor D/s or ‘lifestyle’ or WIITTWD.  Eventually I landed on the MSN boards and in chatrooms where folks roll-played a bunch; doms entered the rooms and sat in their special chairs, girls entered the room with elaborate paragraphs of swirling skirts and such.  I once ‘witnessed’ one “draw his sword and slay another; kicking the dead body in disgust”.  All I can say is ‘that was then’   LOL

Somewhere in all that, I too began an online relationship that went on six months or so.  I learned sooooo much about myself during that time.  While it was most certainly a D/s relationship, it (thankfully) did not include the physical aspects of BDSM (I would have ‘choked’ on it.) No, no ‘whap, Whap, WHAP’ for me…no handcuffs or even cyber-sex.  It was like real-time, but online…nothing was ‘fake’, is what I’m trying to say.

Once, I’d done something bratty…and did so ‘in the chatroom’ while He and I were also IMing.  He was furious at my behavior and immediately let me know this in IM.  He told me to apologize to the room and leave it; he waited while I did so.  Then he told me to get a timer and set it for 35 minutes (enough to read his instructions and get offline entirely.  I was to go sit on the floor facing a blank wall.  I was to consider my behavior for 30 minutes; when the timer went off I was to sit and write what it was I’d considered. 

And I fell in love with the guy.

Okay…I fell in love with this…..whatever ya want to call it; D/s, the lifestyle…whatever.  I felt like I was home at long last.

While I avoid online relationships at all costs anymore, I must say that, for me, the one I did enjoy taught me a great deal and was as real as real-life is to me.  In the end, it caused me much heartache, as we did meet and all was not as I’d thought.  Course, that happens in real-life too. 

I just wanted to say that while it worked, it worked very well…just like real-life does.

(in reply to Brosco)
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