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RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 3:55:04 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Good question. But maybe Bibi is more concerned about what he sees as an existential threat, and he believes Iraq is serious. You think?

I think you mean Iran, dont you?

Iraq is the conflict/war the US dragged other countries into, remember?..

Unlike previous Presidents that marches in tens of thousands of troops & tanks with guns and bombs blazing, I think Obama's style is quite different & is to not get into direct multi-decade conflicts, but rather to support rebels and let them fight to overturn those in control and to send small elite strike forces to hit targets (as he did to get OBL).. thats just my take on how Obama's war machine works.. so far at least..

Thank you. Yes of course I meant Iran.

So, are you saying Obama would not respond with air power if our ships were attacked? He has already moved maybe two carrier task forces into the vicinity.

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Post #: 21

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 3:59:14 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Obama will sit on his hands for three months like he did when asked for a troop surge in Afghanistan. He will lose in November, and President Romney will commit American troops on Jan 20 2013

Do you think anyone will have the luxury to sit and plan for three months? Do you not think contingency plans and decisions have already been drawn? Talking here about before the election. If he sits on his hands for three months that means he was reelected, right?

October... Romney wins in November but takes over in January... Do the math.

So, I think you are saying that Obama would do nothing and that would be the cause of his defeat? And then after war raged in the ME from October thru January, after our ships had been attacked, Romney would come in on "day one" and enter the war? Do I have that right?

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Post #: 22

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:01:42 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Okay, I don't understand what you mean, Tazzie

lol.. would you want to man this cluster fuck of an economy at this point? I wouldnt

There sure is a hellova lot of money being spent to take or retain the White House. Some people see some benefit for themselves. Doncha think?

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Post #: 23

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:03:02 PM

tazzygirl

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If Romney is elected, that first day of his is gonna be a doozy.

Romney has promised a first day that will include:

Immediate approval to construct the Keystone Pipeline
Executive orders to halt the implementation of the Affordable Care Act
The introduction of tax cuts for "job creators"
Deficit reduction
"Ending the Obama era of big government" (this one is left up to the viewer's interpretation)
Threatening China on trade to "demand they play by the rules"
A repeal of "job-killing regulations"

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Post #: 24

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:05:40 PM

Lucylastic

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Post #: 25

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:05:52 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Okay, I don't understand what you mean, Tazzie

lol.. would you want to man this cluster fuck of an economy at this point? I wouldnt

There sure is a hellova lot of money being spent to take or retain the White House. Some people see some benefit for themselves. Doncha think?

They haveta go through the motions.. after all, lots of pockets get lined on the sly... lots of promises made, and broken.... politics as usual.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 26

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:22:59 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Okay, I don't understand what you mean, Tazzie

lol.. would you want to man this cluster fuck of an economy at this point? I wouldnt

There sure is a hellova lot of money being spent to take or retain the White House. Some people see some benefit for themselves. Doncha think?

They haveta go through the motions.. after all, lots of pockets get lined on the sly... lots of promises made, and broken.... politics as usual.

So, what effect will be had by an Israeli attack on Iran?

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 27

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:32:17 PM

tazzygirl

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You are assuming there will be one.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Post #: 28

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 4:55:06 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Yeh, maybe. But the question I posed was not about the financial mess.

Nor was my first reply.

And yes, I think Obama will be re-elected.

In the UK, there was never a clamour on the streets, or in Parliament for an invasion of Iraq. Blair only got his wish when he and Bush lied about WMD`s. Thats why he stood down early, he knew he would never get re-elected.

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Post #: 29

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 5:15:54 PM

Winterapple

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Of course he's moving a couple of task forces in the vicinity. That's the way the game is played.
It's called the Do you really want to fuck
with us game.

To answer your question. Obama will
win the election regardless.

I don't think Israel is going to strike
first. I think Iran is for the most part
posturing and blowing hot air. There
is the risk of something unplanned
happening and all hell breaking loose.
But I believe both sides could be made
to see reason. Made being the key word.

Obama wouldn't turn Iran into another
Iraq even if they made the mistake of
going something hostile to the US.
He'd find some way to slap them til
their ears ring but no ground troops,
no invasions. America, it's allies, the
west and any number of nations will
not indulge Iran if they become
reckless and aggressive.

It would be bad for Israel's pr in the
US should they strike first and Americans
get pulled in to any great degree.
But I don't believe that will happen.
Iran's pr in the US is already quite low.

If strikes and counterstrikes happen
Obama would probably win by default
because no one will be able to find
Mitt. He and Ryan will be racing across
the Plains in the weinermobile with
the family dogs strapped on top trying
to get to the Romney family bunker
so they can sit out the Rapture in
relative comfort.

_____________________________

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Post #: 30

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 6:39:55 PM

DaNewAgeViking

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As for Iran - a series of surgical air strikes by carriers and stealth bombers can effectively neutralize the threat without the folly of a ramps-down invasion and ten years of counter insurgency warfare. Unlike the Radicals, who don't care for the human or financial cost, Obama learned from Douche's mistakes.

As for Israel - if they unilaterally start something, and Iran retaliates by closing the oil routes, that will go a long way to destroying any support the Israeli's have in the USA. If we suffer major military losses on top of an oil crisis - say a carrier gets sunk - Tel Aviv can probably kiss American support good-bye.

As for the election - when push comes to shove, the voters will take a hard look, and vote Obama simply because there is no real alternative. True, he is a weakling, but at least he is legally sane.

(in reply to Winterapple)

Post #: 31

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 8:18:20 PM

tj444

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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Immediate approval to construct the Keystone Pipeline

you do know that Obama pressed to get fast approval for the leg of that pipeline that was recently approved, imo the only difference between Obama and Romney regarding the pipeline is a bit of time, yes Romney said he would approve it immediately, Obama imo will approve it not much after being re-elected.. (I think i read the first few months of 2013, if i recall correctly).. so imo the thing about the pipeline is just splitting hairs.. it will be approved either way..

My comment was only about the pipeline, not any other points..

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Post #: 32

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 8:31:53 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Good question. But maybe Bibi is more concerned about what he sees as an existential threat, and he believes Iraq is serious. You think?

I think you mean Iran, dont you?

Iraq is the conflict/war the US dragged other countries into, remember?..

Unlike previous Presidents that marches in tens of thousands of troops & tanks with guns and bombs blazing, I think Obama's style is quite different & is to not get into direct multi-decade conflicts, but rather to support rebels and let them fight to overturn those in control and to send small elite strike forces to hit targets (as he did to get OBL).. thats just my take on how Obama's war machine works.. so far at least..

Thank you. Yes of course I meant Iran.

So, are you saying Obama would not respond with air power if our ships were attacked? He has already moved maybe two carrier task forces into the vicinity.

No, I never said that, i just think Obama operates smart in relation to conflicts, not with brawn, when he can, that is.. and imo the exception would be if US ships, etc were attacked.. My take on his war/conflict tactics is he tries to go about it with the least loss of life (for Americans).. how many dead Americans from Bush's wars? Obama seems to want to avoid that if he can.. but I have no doubt he would send in the great US war machine if he needed to tho.. Moving in a few carriers at this point is (imo) to show he wouldnt hesitate to do what he felt he needed to do.. its basically just a warning right now.. jmo, of course..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 8/25/2012 8:32:56 PM >

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Post #: 33

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 8:48:22 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Immediate approval to construct the Keystone Pipeline

you do know that Obama pressed to get fast approval for the leg of that pipeline that was recently approved, imo the only difference between Obama and Romney regarding the pipeline is a bit of time, yes Romney said he would approve it immediately, Obama imo will approve it not much after being re-elected.. (I think i read the first few months of 2013, if i recall correctly).. so imo the thing about the pipeline is just splitting hairs.. it will be approved either way..

My comment was only about the pipeline, not any other points..

And my point was that Romney has made promises that all that would be tackled the first day in office.

All I want to see from either of them is some reality.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 34

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 9:09:51 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Immediate approval to construct the Keystone Pipeline

you do know that Obama pressed to get fast approval for the leg of that pipeline that was recently approved, imo the only difference between Obama and Romney regarding the pipeline is a bit of time, yes Romney said he would approve it immediately, Obama imo will approve it not much after being re-elected.. (I think i read the first few months of 2013, if i recall correctly).. so imo the thing about the pipeline is just splitting hairs.. it will be approved either way..

My comment was only about the pipeline, not any other points..

And my point was that Romney has made promises that all that would be tackled the first day in office.

All I want to see from either of them is some reality.

I dont think he was being literal.. I would expect those items would be the things he would try to tackle first tho..

I doubt he will get the chance tho, imo Obama will win... they are both one of the 1% tho.. sorta 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other..

_____________________________

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Post #: 35

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 9:27:21 PM

tazzygirl

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In a campaign ad unveiled on Friday, the presumptive Republican nominee asks voters to imagine Day 1 of his presidency, and lists Keystone as a top priority.

"Day One, President Romney immediately approves the Keystone pipeline, creating thousands of jobs that Obama blocked," the ad's narrator says.

http://www.teaparty.org/article.php?id=3235

Romney said he agreed with the four dissenting justices, who ruled that the entire Affordable Care Act should be thrown out.

"What the court did not do on its last day in session, I will do on my first day if elected president of the United States, and that is I will act to repeal Obamacare," he said. "Let's make sure we understand what the court did and did not do. What the court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the Constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is good law or good policy. Obamacare was bad policy yesterday, it's bad policy today. Obamacare was bad law yesterday, it's bad law today."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/mitt-romney-health-care_n_1632944.html

By contrast, Mitt Romney’s first major ad is substantive — and wrong. He tells us that on his first day in office — after approving the Keystone XL pipeline — he will “introduce tax cuts . . . that reward job creators not punish them.” The one idea that is almost certain not to jump-start this economy is a tax cut.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/mitt-romney-health-care_n_1632944.html

Mitt Romney has a new ad out, touting what he'll do on his first day as president. "Day One," the narrator intones, "President Romney announces deficit reductions, ending the Obama era of big government."

That’s pretty much what Romney has been saying all along. As president, he'll cut spending and end an era of what he views as dangerous government growth.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/category/mitt-romney/

VIDEO TEXT: What would a Romney Presidency be like?
VOICEOVER: What would a Romney Presidency be like?

VIDEO TEXT: Day 01

VOICEOVER: Day one, President Romney announces deficit reductions, ending the Obama era of big government, helping secure our kids’ futures.

VIDEO TEXT: End Obama era of Big Government

VOICEOVER: President Romney stands up to China on trade and demands they play by the rules.

VIDEO TEXT: Make China Play By The Rules

VOICEOVER: President Romney begins repealing job-killing regulations that are costing the economy billions.

VIDEO TEXT: Repeal Job-killing Regulations

VOICEOVER: That’s what a Romney presidency will be like.

MITT ROMNEY: I’m Mitt Romney and I approve this message.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/mitt-romney-ad-day-one_n_1541886.html

Its his ad campaign... approved by him.

If he didnt mean it, why did he say it?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 36

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/25/2012 9:50:47 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

So, I think you are saying that Obama would do nothing and that would be the cause of his defeat? And then after war raged in the ME from October thru January, after our ships had been attacked, Romney would come in on "day one" and enter the war? Do I have that right?

I based my answer on your second supposition that Iran would be smart enough NOT to attack American assets. If Israel attacks first, and Iran retaliates, I seriously doubt they'll attack American targets, and Obama will take a wait and see how the war plays out position.

Iran is smart enough to know they'll have world public opinion on their side, and be justified in responding to an attack by Israel. They will not retaliate against American assets if we were not part of the attack. Iran knows Obama is not a supporter of Israel, and unlike Bush, won't jump in with both feet to defend Israel, especially if it's an Israeli act of aggression that sparks the war.

If Israel does attack, I'd side with what I believe Obama will do, which is nothing... If Israel wants to attack, let Israel deal with the consequences of their decision.

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Post #: 37

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/26/2012 1:48:50 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

VincentML
in October Israel attacks Iran, and Iran retaliates against American troops and ships? You may assume it was a unilateral attack without warning to President Obama, or not. You should assume retaliation against Israel from Iran and Hezbollah. What do you think the political reactions will be from the Left and the Right in the United States?

Suppose Iran does not retaliate against American troops and ships. What then? Will Obama go to the United Nations if Israel is under attack instead of responding directly to help Israel? If so, where goes the election? What is the view from Britain, Canada, Australia, Norway, etc?

What is the strategic national interest of the United States in this event? How goes Russia, China, Jordan, Arabia, Egypt, etc?

Off hand, I think Obama will engage our military in either event. He will win the election. Just my opinion to start.

What do you think Obama's response should be or will be?

As things stand, an Israeli attack on Iran in Oct seems unlikely to me. Israelis themselves are split on this issue - a majority of Israelis oppose a strike, the IDF leadership opposes it, even Pres. Peres (no peacenik!) opposes the strike. Whether a strike by the IDF without direct US involvement and technology will succeed is doubted by many military experts, and even if it does, it will at best retard Iran by 12-18 months. So the upside is murky, the downside risks enormous, the fallout incalculable.

My feeling is that Netanyahu’s brinkmanship is best understood as follows: Netanyahu is desperate to avoid a second Obama term. A re-elected Obama would be far less susceptible to Israeli pressure, far more likely to assert US interests first . Romney has already shown that he is prepared to allow the Israelis to set his agenda and policy.

So Netanyahu is trying, to (a) influence the US election to benefit Romney and (b) if Obama wins, trying to tie his hands as much as possible in advance. He can achieve (b) through agreeing not to strike in return for political, economic and diplomatic concessions from Obama.

Obama, who has already shown his reluctance to stand up to Israeli pressure - remember his craven capitulation at the UN? - will agree. (probably against his better judgement). He doesn’t want to be vulnerable to Romney on this issue. Nor does he want an Israeli strike, with its unknown consequences.

If Netanyahu strikes Iran he has played his ace and his ability to influence either the election or Obama is reduced considerably. Far better for him to extract a series of concessions from Obama that will tie Obama’s hands for the duration of his second term and (from Netanyahu’s POV) ensure Israel/AIPAC's ongoing stranglehold over US policy in the ME. Another four years and the colonisation of the West Bank will be irreversible, the already-comatose Two State solution dead and buried - two of Netanyahu's primary goals will be "facts on the ground".

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/26/2012 2:29:40 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/26/2012 4:41:47 AM

DesideriScuri

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If Iran attacks Israel, we'll be pulled into a war, especially if our troops are attacked.

If Israel attacks Iran, we'll be pulled in, too. However, I am still hopeful that the US can go in akin to a referee and send both fighters back to their corners, ending whatever hostilities had started and, ultimately, cooling off the area.

Maybe it's time we used some stealth attacks on Iran's and Israel's water supplies. Maybe we could spike them with some downers or something. Just get both countries to chill the fuck out.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Post #: 39

RE: What will be the outcome of the November election I... - 8/26/2012 8:03:56 AM

vincentML

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quote:

You are assuming there will be one.

Yes, hypothetically or realistically, what would the effect be? I am cognizant of the low probabilities. But shit happens. Serbia/Archduke Ferdinand, Poland/Hitler, etc

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 40

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