RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s?

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TNDommeK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 5:51:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK Why in hell's name do pro dommes keep getting lumped into the same pigeon hole as fin dommes on this site ? We are completely different animals ! A Pro Domme = Someone who meets people in real life and provides a genuine service. They supply their time, equipment, facilities and expertise to those in the BDSM community who may for many reasons not be able access what they want through clubs, munches etc... Yes, they do charge for this service, but so does a restaurant for supplying you with a meal or a mechanic for fixing your car, funny but I don't see any subs complaining about these service providers, Pro Dommes are no different, they simply provide a service where there is a demand. A fin domme = Just about anyone who has the intelligence to create a fake profile and scam vulnerable people out of their money with no commitment to ever meet up in real life. The two are simply light years apart, yet every other sub who complains about fin dommes seem to end up painting Pro Dommes with the same very badly aimed brush. Zara This would not be accurate. I'm a fin Domme , My profile is real, I don't scam, and I certainly don't mind meeting in real life. I prefer it actually. And I wouldnt say vulnerable people, especially if they contact Me first. Oh and wh0re, I viewed your profile because I noticed you viewed Me a couple of times. But no worries, I don't mind. A prostitute charging for sex is something completely different than someone charging for food or a pro charging for services. They all are just completely different. People can say all they want that fin/pro are prostitutes, but that doesn't make it right, no matter how many times they say it. Now if they agree to have sex for money, then you would be right. I can't speak for every fin Domme, but as for Me, I'm far from a prostitute.

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:02:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: Next time you go to an event, keep an eye on the 'non pro' Dommes you see there, trust me, that lady will not have paid for her transport, hotel, club entrance, meals, drinks or anything else it will all have been paid for by the little sub group who are following in her wake. This had me laughing hysterically. I don't know what universe you are living honey, but I guarantee you that's soooooo not true. Well lets see, 13 years on the UK BDSM scene, have been to pretty much every major club and event in this country. Personally know dozens of pro and non pro Dommes some of whom I count as personal friends, so yes, I do have a pretty good insight into the dynamics of the BDSM scene here. I'm living in exactly the same universe that you are littlewonder, perhaps I am simply a little more observant then you are. There are very few commercial events that I go to where you do not see at least a couple of sub 'milkers' in the mix. It's not every Domme that attends an event, but trust me, they very much exist. Zara

wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:09:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK And yet again, you seem to show your complete ignorance of the BDSM scene in general, and the Pro Domme scene in particular Wh0re, as typified by your immature attempt to now label Pro Dommes alongside prostitutes. I know many professional mistresses both socially and professionally and NONE of them allow penetrative sex from ANY of their clients And You are talking about ignorance? No penetrative sex, no prostitution? Really ? Quote from wikipedia: "Prostitution is the business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment. The person who receives payment for sexual services is called a prostitute or sex worker and the person who receives such services is known by a multitude of terms." From the same sourse sexual serivces redirects to ... "Human sexual activities or human sexual practices or human sexual behavior refers to the manner in which humans experience and express their sexuality." I hope I broadened Your horizon a bit in regards with the term prostitution. quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK however the reality is that there is a huge demand and there will always be a professional element to the BDSM scene that will service that demand regardless if you like it or not. And regardless of what you may think of us Wh0re, we do take pride in delivering a good service, making our customers happy and ensuring that they are getting value for their money. If we don't do that, we pretty quickly run out of customers. ... and the very same thing doesn't go for the rest of the sex workers who deliever sexual service how? Just because they don't put "Pro"-labels to their profession ... but even on that point funny enough there is a Pro in ProStitution.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK A fin domme = Just about anyone who has the intelligence to create a fake profile and scam vulnerable people out of their money with no commitment to ever meet up in real life. Comments like this one make you appear, ah, uninformed. Here's a couple anecdotes about findommes I know personally. One I knew before she became a findomme, and after. Part of the reason she stopped was due to a situation that she called me about one night, asking me what she should do. One of her clients had told her that he had given her his rent money and was being evicted, and he kept trying to give her more, which she wouldn't accept. She blocked him. He re-registered under another email address and tried to give her more money. She blocked him again. This happened several times, until she finally called me, because she didn't know what else to do. Another findomme is someone currently in my personal life. My relationship with her is not financially based. She uses social networking profiles to play a character, make money and feed a fetish. She has long-term clients and is pretty successful. One bonus for me is that it gets her hotter-than-usual when I give her some money or buy her a gift. This gets vanilla women aroused also, but it's an extra-fun button to push in her case. Finally I used to date (in real life) an "online-only tribute domme." She is in a helping profession, and supported me emotionally during some difficult times. Something that made me smile: she once asked me, "Hey, I have a bunch of Amazon gift cards I'm not using. Do you want me to buy you anything from there?" Finally, I have to say that one of the most interesting social phenomena in the BDSM scene is how little solidarity there is between prodommes and other women. Every prodomme I know would call herself a feminist, yet most of them behave just as you did, throwing prostitutes and findommes under the bus at the first opportunity. Not a lot of Sisterhood Is Powerful going on here. It's quite a contradiction. Take the mote out of your own eye, perhaps?

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:29:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK A fin domme = Just about anyone who has the intelligence to create a fake profile and scam vulnerable people out of their money with no commitment to ever meet up in real life. Comments like this one make you appear, ah, uninformed. Here's a couple anecdotes about findommes I know personally. One I knew before she became a findomme, and after. Part of the reason she stopped was due to a situation that she called me about one night, asking me what she should do. One of her clients had told her that he had given her his rent money and was being evicted, and he kept trying to give her more, which she wouldn't accept. She blocked him. He re-registered under another email address and tried to give her more money. She blocked him again. This happened several times, until she finally called me, because she didn't know what else to do. Another findomme is someone currently in my personal life. My relationship with her is not financially based. She uses social networking profiles to play a character, make money and feed a fetish. She has long-term clients and is pretty successful. One bonus for me is that it gets her hotter-than-usual when I give her some money or buy her a gift. This gets vanilla women aroused also, but it's an extra-fun button to push in her case. Finally I used to date (in real life) an "online-only tribute domme." She is in a helping profession, and supported me emotionally during some difficult times. Something that made me smile: she once asked me, "Hey, I have a bunch of Amazon gift cards I'm not using. Do you want me to buy you anything from there?" Finally, I have to say that one of the most interesting social phenomena in the BDSM scene is how little solidarity there is between prodommes and other women. Every prodomme I know would call herself a feminist, yet most of them behave just as you did, throwing prostitutes and findommes under the bus at the first opportunity. Not a lot of Sisterhood Is Powerful going on here. It's quite a contradiction. Take the mote out of your own eye, perhaps? Personally I have no issues with either fin dommes or prostitutes, both service a need just as I do, it is simply not the same need. My only beef is with the small number of ignorant people on this site who seem to see professionals as something to be criticised and ostracised Zara

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:34:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wh0re quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK And yet again, you seem to show your complete ignorance of the BDSM scene in general, and the Pro Domme scene in particular Wh0re, as typified by your immature attempt to now label Pro Dommes alongside prostitutes. I know many professional mistresses both socially and professionally and NONE of them allow penetrative sex from ANY of their clients And You are talking about ignorance? No penetrative sex, no prostitution? Really ? Quote from wikipedia: "Prostitution is the business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment. The person who receives payment for sexual services is called a prostitute or sex worker and the person who receives such services is known by a multitude of terms." From the same sourse sexual serivces redirects to ... "Human sexual activities or human sexual practices or human sexual behavior refers to the manner in which humans experience and express their sexuality." I hope I broadened Your horizon a bit in regards with the term prostitution. quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK however the reality is that there is a huge demand and there will always be a professional element to the BDSM scene that will service that demand regardless if you like it or not. And regardless of what you may think of us Wh0re, we do take pride in delivering a good service, making our customers happy and ensuring that they are getting value for their money. If we don't do that, we pretty quickly run out of customers. ... and the very same thing doesn't go for the rest of the sex workers who deliever sexual service how? Just because they don't put "Pro"-labels to their profession ... but even on that point funny enough there is a Pro in ProStitution. With a definition as broad as the one you are using, pretty much any woman who has accepted a drink or a meal from a guy then had had sex with him is a prostitute. I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean is it ? You really don't like professionals do you hunni. That's ok, plenty of people out there like us :-) Zara

wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 7:17:10 PM)
Oh I do like professionals, don't get me wrong darlin, just I don't think BDSM is a profession and don't like people who deem it as their own. My favourite source says, I quote: "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training" so which certified College/Univercity/Highschool did You graduated for Your BDSM degree?

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 8:15:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wh0re Oh I do like professionals, don't get me wrong darlin, just I don't think BDSM is a profession and don't like people who deem it as their own. My favourite source says, I quote: "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training" so which certified College/Univercity/Highschool did You graduated for Your BDSM degree? OK, so finally we get some objective statements from you, rather then just a general 'lets beat up on the pros' rant. So, some sensible answers to your questions. 1) Why should providing a BDSM service not be seen as a viable profession ? If you have a talent for anything in life, be it playing a piano, cooking or painting what is so objectionable about turning that talent into something that can make money for you ? Many 1000's of small businesses are created each year simply by people taking a hobby or an interest and developing it to a level where they can actually make a living wage out of it. Providing a service in the BDSM scene is no different. Many people do not have the opportunity to attend fet events through personal circumstances, a professional service enables them to satisfy their needs at a time and a place that is convenient for them. In an ideal world there would be a Domme for every sub out there, but in the real world we know this ratio simply does not exist. Removing the professional sector from the BDSM scene would actually condemn a great many people to having no outlet for their needs, is this in itself a desirable thing ? 2) Your quite correct, I do not own a certificate that qualifies me as a BDSM expert. What I do have are 13 years of experience on the BDSM scene as a male Dom and a TG Domme. During that time I have made every mistake in the book, but have also learnt a great deal in respect of both the physiology and the psychology involved in BDSM. My Kinbaku work and photography have been published both nationally and internationally in a number of magazines. something I am very proud of. So no, I don't own a piece of paper, I do own a wealth of experience however, much of which I put to good use in my profession. As to why I do this work ? Typically I will work 10-12 hours a week, get to pick and choose when I work and what clients I see. I have a job that genuinely interests me, I enjoy and get the satisfaction of a happy customer at the end of it, something most people are never lucky enough to have. My only regret is that I didn't do this 10 years ago. Zara

JeffBC -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 8:29:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK The prejudice against Pro Dommes is pretty laughable You could've stopped right there. I just think it's laughable. It wasn't all that long ago when I was really, truly vanilla. Now I have friends who beat each other's asses with cheese graters till it's a bloody mess. I still laugh when I remember back to my poor delicate vanilla sensibilities getting shocked by the need for tarps when whipping someone. Now I have friends who cut on penises with scalpels. And among all this crazy shit, "pro dommes" is what get's people all excited? And why? I've read wh0re's posts a few times now seeking to understand his ire and I just don't get it. I see a bunch of assertions but I don't see how any of them add up to some sort of harm being done to wh0re. He apparently communicates with dommes with ease and that communication results in successful experiences for him. So what's the rub? quote: We do have one outstanding virtue as pros, at least we are upfront and honest as to our cost and we give our customers what they want, not whatever takes our fancy at the time I don't think the profession has virtues or not. It's a service business. Whatever virtue or lack thereof which is present probably has to do with the individuals rather than the job category.

littlewonder -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 8:50:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder quote: Next time you go to an event, keep an eye on the 'non pro' Dommes you see there, trust me, that lady will not have paid for her transport, hotel, club entrance, meals, drinks or anything else it will all have been paid for by the little sub group who are following in her wake. This had me laughing hysterically. I don't know what universe you are living honey, but I guarantee you that's soooooo not true. Well lets see, 13 years on the UK BDSM scene, have been to pretty much every major club and event in this country. Personally know dozens of pro and non pro Dommes some of whom I count as personal friends, so yes, I do have a pretty good insight into the dynamics of the BDSM scene here. I'm living in exactly the same universe that you are littlewonder, perhaps I am simply a little more observant then you are. There are very few commercial events that I go to where you do not see at least a couple of sub 'milkers' in the mix. It's not every Domme that attends an event, but trust me, they very much exist. Zara Well you are in Europe and so I guess that happens there. Here in the states, for the past 15 years, every single time I have hosted or gone to a play party or dungeon, if the Domme was without a guy, she paid her own way or even if she was with a guy, she was usually doing the paying because she sees him as a playtoy and not a bank. Sounds to me that in Europe that many "Dommes" are findommes or verge on being a Pro. Here in the states it does not work that way usually.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 9:11:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Well you are in Europe and so I guess that happens there. Here in the states, for the past 15 years, every single time I have hosted or gone to a play party or dungeon, if the Domme was without a guy, she paid her own way or even if she was with a guy, she was usually doing the paying because she sees him as a playtoy and not a bank. Sounds to me that in Europe that many "Dommes" are findommes or verge on being a Pro. Here in the states it does not work that way usually. You are much more polite than I am. Zara has already posted at least one thing that I know to be false. I see no reason to believe her about this particular point. "I've been around for thirteen years" just doesn't cut it with me. Unless someone I know to be active on the London scene posts that she's right, I'm guessing that her claim is yet another lie told on the internet in an attempt to win an argument.

littlewonder -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 9:23:27 PM)
It's Christmas. I'm really trying hard to cut down on my snark. [8D]

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 9:33:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder Well you are in Europe and so I guess that happens there. Here in the states, for the past 15 years, every single time I have hosted or gone to a play party or dungeon, if the Domme was without a guy, she paid her own way or even if she was with a guy, she was usually doing the paying because she sees him as a playtoy and not a bank. Sounds to me that in Europe that many "Dommes" are findommes or verge on being a Pro. Here in the states it does not work that way usually. You are much more polite than I am. Zara has already posted at least one thing that I know to be false. I see no reason to believe her about this particular point. "I've been around for thirteen years" just doesn't cut it with me. Unless someone I know to be active on the London scene posts that she's right, I'm guessing that her claim is yet another lie told on the internet in an attempt to win an argument. And what exactly would that falsehood be then ? The fact that you actually have met a real fin domme does not make me a liar, I simply commented on the large number of 'fake' fin domme profiles that exist on this and many other sites. As to venues I have been to, where would you like me to start ? Torture Garden, Club Rub, Club Lash, Stunners, Sweet Wednesdays, Transmission and that's just the London area venues ! As to your London contacts 'knowing' me, that is not very likely as Zara, certainly some will have met me in male mode though. If you have a point to make, make it, but calling someone a liar simply because you don't personally know them is just plain offensive. After all, I don't know you from Adam either, you may simply be some sad little man who has never stepped foot into a club for all I or anyone else knows Zara

wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 11:14:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK OK, so finally we get some objective statements from you, rather then just a general 'lets beat up on the pros' rant. So, some sensible answers to your questions. Out of all I wrote You find this the only objective statement? LOL ... anyways 1) Talent? Really? BDSM talent? Wow probably You didn't mean just that ... well if You went all the way from being a Dom to being a Domme I guess You were desperately seeking Your ... erm ... talent 2) BDSM is not on any list of professions I knwo Sorry for being so short, but we are starting to repeat ourselves here ... You are smart ... will get it

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 11:46:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wh0re quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK OK, so finally we get some objective statements from you, rather then just a general 'lets beat up on the pros' rant. So, some sensible answers to your questions. Out of all I wrote You find this the only objective statement? LOL ... anyways 1) Talent? Really? BDSM talent? Wow probably You didn't mean just that ... well if You went all the way from being a Dom to being a Domme I guess You were desperately seeking Your ... erm ... talent 2) BDSM is not on any list of professions I knwo Sorry for being so short, but we are starting to repeat ourselves here ... You are smart ... will get it Mmmm, I think the only one who is running out of any reasoned argument is yourself, but to clarify a few things for you... 1) Yes, talent and experience. If you have been around the scene as much as you say you have then you will have certainly seen enough examples of people who don't have a clue what they are doing. As to why I do the tranny Domme thing, it's a niche market and earns me more money in a week then you probably see in a month matey and I certainly work a hell of a lot less hours to earn it then you do. At the end of the day, the make up comes off and I live a normal life like any other guy, only just a lot better paid. 2) Please look in a dictionary, a profession is defined as a vocation or business I hope this has cleared up your confusion Zara

TNDommeK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/20/2012 1:35:16 AM)
Wh0re, you and I have exchanged a few emails on this subject. But at this time I must say that I have to stop entertaining your notions. I used to have a quote on My sig line that said "to argue with a person who has lost the voice of reason is like administering medicine to the dead". I feel like this is what we are attempting to do with you. But I did want to say one thing to your question about what degrees in BDSM does one receive...I wish Lady Pact was in this discussion. There may not be a piece of paper that says diploma on it, but there are tons and tons of classes and workshops etc that pros do attend to learn and further safety education and play education. So yes, there are things to attend and learn from. I'm sure there are quite a few Dommes who have taught and attended. Just wanted to through that out there.

TNDommeK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/20/2012 1:37:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder It's Christmas. I'm really trying hard to cut down on my snark. [8D] Santa (Kana) is going to be really good to you this year!!

wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/20/2012 3:48:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK Mmmm, I think the only one who is running out of any reasoned argument is yourself, but to clarify a few things for you... 1) Yes, talent and experience. If you have been around the scene as much as you say you have then you will have certainly seen enough examples of people who don't have a clue what they are doing. As to why I do the tranny Domme thing, it's a niche market and earns me more money in a week then you probably see in a month matey and I certainly work a hell of a lot less hours to earn it then you do. At the end of the day, the make up comes off and I live a normal life like any other guy, only just a lot better paid. 2) Please look in a dictionary, a profession is defined as a vocation or business I hope this has cleared up your confusion Zara Ah finally You spat it out - niche, money, earning more etc. etc. and You call that genuine BDSM interest ... allow me to laugh hard at Your statement. You saw a niche in the market and turned from a Dom to a TS Domme ... and You tell me it is the BDSM that brought You here - no dear ... You are here to "work" to make money and You are here to exploit subs weaknesses for Your own gains and that has nothing to do with neither Domming nor BDSM in general As for the vocation on business - well genuine BDSM is not a business and I am already tired of repeating that or at least it is not meant to be. Well of course there are people lazy enough or not capable enough of finding a proper job so they go the prositute way - selling sex (in this case sexual service) because sex always sells. You probably once were interested in BDSM but then You needed money and since female subs are not much into the habbit of paying their Dom's You decided to turn into Domme, knowing male subs are so desperate to play out their fantasies that they will even pay You. And if You think You are fooling someone - well, You are not ... or at least not me.

wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/20/2012 3:54:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNDommeK Wh0re, you and I have exchanged a few emails on this subject. But at this time I must say that I have to stop entertaining your notions. I used to have a quote on My sig line that said "to argue with a person who has lost the voice of reason is like administering medicine to the dead". I feel like this is what we are attempting to do with you. But I did want to say one thing to your question about what degrees in BDSM does one receive...I wish Lady Pact was in this discussion. There may not be a piece of paper that says diploma on it, but there are tons and tons of classes and workshops etc that pros do attend to learn and further safety education and play education. So yes, there are things to attend and learn from. I'm sure there are quite a few Dommes who have taught and attended. Just wanted to through that out there. Have I asked You to administer medicine on me? Have I stated I am in need of any? Entertaining MY notions - well I don't remember asking anyone to do it. It was purely Your decision and it was initiated by You, but when You find out You cannot support Your lines with any face and that it will be difficult to enforce some believes on me which YOU believe to be true lead You to stating my arguements are unreasonable, while all the time I answered You quite reasonably ... but well I guess the grape is sour so it's better to just state that someone is unreasonable than to admit he is right And on the topic of the professions I am still to get an answer if You give receipts to Your customers and do You pay taxes. Although I am pretty sure of the answer it will be interesting to see Your insight on this one

MistressZaraUK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/20/2012 4:36:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wh0re quote: ORIGINAL: MistressZaraUK Mmmm, I think the only one who is running out of any reasoned argument is yourself, but to clarify a few things for you... 1) Yes, talent and experience. If you have been around the scene as much as you say you have then you will have certainly seen enough examples of people who don't have a clue what they are doing. As to why I do the tranny Domme thing, it's a niche market and earns me more money in a week then you probably see in a month matey and I certainly work a hell of a lot less hours to earn it then you do. At the end of the day, the make up comes off and I live a normal life like any other guy, only just a lot better paid. 2) Please look in a dictionary, a profession is defined as a vocation or business I hope this has cleared up your confusion Zara Ah finally You spat it out - niche, money, earning more etc. etc. and You call that genuine BDSM interest ... allow me to laugh hard at Your statement. You saw a niche in the market and turned from a Dom to a TS Domme ... and You tell me it is the BDSM that brought You here - no dear ... You are here to "work" to make money and You are here to exploit subs weaknesses for Your own gains and that has nothing to do with neither Domming nor BDSM in general As for the vocation on business - well genuine BDSM is not a business and I am already tired of repeating that or at least it is not meant to be. Well of course there are people lazy enough or not capable enough of finding a proper job so they go the prositute way - selling sex (in this case sexual service) because sex always sells. You probably once were interested in BDSM but then You needed money and since female subs are not much into the habbit of paying their Dom's You decided to turn into Domme, knowing male subs are so desperate to play out their fantasies that they will even pay You. And if You think You are fooling someone - well, You are not ... or at least not me. I very much get the impression you don't get an awful lot of success in meeting potential partners on this site. Maybe something to do with the feet stuck in front of your face on your one and only photo, or perhaps the lack of contacts on your profile. Then again it may simply be due to your total ignorance when it comes to talking about anything involving the grown up world the rest of us live in. Go back and read my profile, and this time try to actually understand it. I make it very clear what my preferences for play partners are and that aspect of my fet life does not involve any business aspects at all. I also state very clearly that I only meet males on a professional basis, I do not hide the fact and make it very clear on my profile. If you had actually read my profile properly, all of this would have been very clear to you long before now. Exploit subs weaknesses ? How on earth do you come to that conclusion ? Most of my clients are professional people who are very much in control of their lives thank you very much. They book me at a time of their choosing, get exactly what they wanted from their visit and go away happy till the next time. No one gets exploited, it's a simple business transaction, even a 10 year old child could understand that principle, but you evidently struggle with it for some unknown reason. As to being too lazy to hold down a full time job, well been there, done that, spent 20 years working for the 2nd biggest defence company in the world as a middle manager so trust me, I know exactly what it is like to be a 9 to 5 wage slave. Yet again you drag out the old 'prostitute' line to refer to anyone who provides a personal service, don't you think it's time you grew up a bit ? You have an opinion, as misguided as it is, but you are in no position to judge me or anyone else on this scene. To me you are just another example of a sad little sub who expects the world to work just the way you want it to. Sorry, but real life doesn't work that way, perhaps you should take a step back from your prejudices and examine how immature you are sounding in these discussions Zara

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