RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (Full Version)

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JeffBC -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/17/2012 2:27:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AllisonWilder
In a world where people get tied up, suspended from the ceilings, play with knives, locked up in chastity devices, whipped, flogged, play with fire, play with electrical devices and so much more on a daily basis, I find it silly that there are still so many people that get genuinely butthurt about finDommes.

LOL... yeah. That!

You just have to imagine how that looks to me.. the guy who still doesn't get up to much kinky. I mean seriously... compared to Kana & Littlewonder or some local friends we have here... it just boggles my mind.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/17/2012 4:16:42 AM)

Whore,
You stated that you stopped reading my original message after the first few sentences. So clearly you are not in a position to have an intelligent conversation about the original message, or on the multi-page discussion that ensued. But feel free to continue with your tantrums.

BTW, good luck with your quest to protect adult society from themselves. [8|]



Zonie63 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/17/2012 12:24:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wh0re
On the side note most of the prodommes and findommes and all that financial domination wannabes are violating the TOS, which clearly states "You may not use the Website to advertise products or services, nor may You use the Website in order to solicit products or services" but i guess it's confortable for somebody to cast a blind eye.


I brought this up myself several months ago, way back in FinDomme Complaint Thread #438, but there was a point made that the message boards have a section for "Professional Services" and a "Marketplace" section where people sell toys, equipment, etc. The TOS itself is kind of vague on this, as it says:

quote:

7.3.12. You will not use Your profile or any other portion of the Website or Our services to promote any other business enterprise, unless otherwise permitted by collarme.com, nor will you attempt to use any of Our services to promote an escort service, prostitution, web-cams, or any other form of related enterprise;


The bolded part indicates that some business enterprises are acceptable, as long as it's permitted by collarme.com. I take that to mean that the management of this site considers Findomme profiles to be appropriate and within the letter and spirit of the Terms of Service.

I also initially thought that CM was more of a personals site and not so much a professional listing service (which there are sites available for that purpose), but it was correctly pointed out to me that CM calls itself a BDSM "community," which would include more than just those looking for personal relationships.

So, in my view, those points, once raised, ended the argument in my mind, at least as far as having Findomme profiles on collarme.com.

As for whether it constitutes "prostitution," I don't think so. At least in the legal sense, I don't think a Findomme can be charged with a crime, as I think it would have to require some sort of physical contact (although I could be wrong). It might still be considered in the sex industry, along the lines of internet porn, webcams, phone sex - that sort of thing, which are still legal even in states where prostitution is illegal. Such services are not classified as prostitution. However, I personally believe that prostitution should be legal.

Of course, there are other meanings of the word prostitute:

quote:

Definition of PROSTITUTE

1
: to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2
: to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : debase <prostitute one's talents>
— pros·ti·tu·tor noun

Examples of PROSTITUTE

a writer who prostituted his talents by writing commercials
<a serious writer prostituting himself by writing pulp novels for money>


In the example above, about a writer prostituting his talents by writing commercials, that may be a bit of a judgment call, I suppose. Who is to say that writing pulp novels or commercials constitutes "prostituting" one's talents? That seems more of a value judgment (and perhaps even unfair when viewed from a certain perspective), so that may be why it rubs some people the wrong way.

As a comment regarding the topic in general, it does seem as if this topic comes up an awful lot - although this particular thread seems to have had more productive and informative discussion than most threads on this topic. I don't think that it's a matter of people criticizing other people's kinks (although again, I could be wrong), but what seems absent in these discussions is any significant mention of money itself. What is money, and how does it work into this dynamic? Do men and women view money in the same way? We might see money as a form of power, but when money is exchanged, does that mean that power is being exerted or being taken?

My grandfather and uncle were two alpha male types, very domineering at times, and every time the family would go out to dinner together, they would argue with each other because they both wanted to pay the check. For them (and for a lot of men), pulling out their wallets was a way of exerting power and dominance, not giving it up.

So, when does the act of giving money to someone else turn from being an act of dominance to one of submission?




TNDommeK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/17/2012 4:09:23 PM)

Allison, you are too awesome!!!



SomethingCatchy -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/17/2012 5:26:11 PM)

Yes. Submissive men who claim that they refuse to ever be involved in financial domination are quickly struck off my 'Potentials' list. If they're unwilling to give me complete control of every aspect of their lives, then I do not want them.



wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 5:13:19 AM)

Clearly there will be those blindly defending the findommes/prodommes (be it because they have a friend engaged in such activity, or be it cause they just like to score some red points in the books of a domme or dommes) and I am sure they are able to dig into all kinds of arguments but the bottom line is Your comments, dear friends, are just as biased as mine and I refuse to futher dwell in the debths of this debate. I have read all the critics on my post and I find everything mention equally shallow as hardly anything of value was given to support their claim (be it only my oppinion). I laughed hard to the comparisson with layers and medical workers with the findommes and prodommes but hey ... it's my point of view so we must agree to disagree.

Prostitution in it's base form is selling sexual (in most case) services for money and that is exactly what the so-called "dommes" do, no matter how you try to defend them. Not to mention that most of them, as mentioned here don't even deliever the "service" they are paid for and just scam the subs out of their money.

As for the users from Philipines I am waiting their "protector" to show me a real genuine Mistress/Domme from there ... actually I dare him ... and good luck with that

And finally I owe an answer to JeffBC, who although warned to bite, did so in a very nice way with intelligent approach. So, Sir, what I have agains them You ask. Well this is an easy question and I will answer straight away: They are contaminating this site, making it virtually impossible to even have the chance to talk to a genuine Domme and we all know just talking is hardly enough as there should be also some kind of chemistry between the sub and the Domme and possible a match in their likes and dislikes ... at least to some extent. Okay if there are people that are into feeding the so-called "findommes/prodommes" it really is their choice but let them have their own place - a place dedicated only to financial domination fans be it dominant or submissive where they can outcheat each others and negotiate their stuff and let the rest of the site be for the ones who look for actual BDSM relation (possible of course the other way round - a small corner for the genuines and the rest for the findom empire). And if this happen I would be very curious to know what is the ratio between finDommes and finsubs ... that should give answer to most of the questions discussed in this thread. So all in all that is why I have a problem with findommes/prodommes - they just occupy to much "space" and is difficult to find a Domme/Mistress that is on this site for the BDSM, not for the money.

And since I am on the topic, there is another suggestion - Force fem/pro dommes to tag themselves as such and put an option to filter them out. This will be enough and I think this will settle any issue on this topic, cause honestly it is kind of irritating to form and personalize a message, to spend 15-20 minutes to write it in a proper way just to receive an answer: add me on yahoo, my id is so and so and when you eventually decide to give this id a chance to receive a "task" to prove yourself by sending tribute, signing to a website, looking for a particular web model etc. etc.



DarkSteven -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:09:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wh0re

They are contaminating this site, making it virtually impossible to even have the chance to talk to a genuine Domme and we all know just talking is hardly enough as there should be also some kind of chemistry between the sub and the Domme and possible a match in their likes and dislikes ... at least to some extent. Okay if there are people that are into feeding the so-called "findommes/prodommes" it really is their choice but let them have their own place - a place dedicated only to financial domination fans be it dominant or submissive where they can outcheat each others and negotiate their stuff and let the rest of the site be for the ones who look for actual BDSM relation (possible of course the other way round - a small corner for the genuines and the rest for the findom empire). And if this happen I would be very curious to know what is the ratio between finDommes and finsubs ... that should give answer to most of the questions discussed in this thread. So all in all that is why I have a problem with findommes/prodommes - they just occupy to much "space" and is difficult to find a Domme/Mistress that is on this site for the BDSM, not for the money.

And since I am on the topic, there is another suggestion - Force fem/pro dommes to tag themselves as such and put an option to filter them out. This will be enough and I think this will settle any issue on this topic, cause honestly it is kind of irritating to form and personalize a message, to spend 15-20 minutes to write it in a proper way just to receive an answer: add me on yahoo, my id is so and so and when you eventually decide to give this id a chance to receive a "task" to prove yourself by sending tribute, signing to a website, looking for a particular web model etc. etc.



This confuses me. I'm a Dom so when I do search, I search for female subs, not Dommes. There are many tipoffs that a profile is fake - bad writing, a focus on sex instead of relationship factors, a glamor shot or naked pic, etc. I can tell a scammer profile within a few seconds and move on.

I had assumed that the same existed with Domme profiles - that it was possible to pick off whether a woman was genuinely lifestyle or not almost instantly. Is that not the case?

Your post makes it clear that you initiate contact. If so, you would need to have a very good profile to elicit a response. Yours simply screams "I want to play and I'm not interested in a relationship!"

You need to make up your mind. If you want sessions with no relationships, then get used to finDommes. If you want a full relationship with play included, rewrite your profile. It's that simple.



wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:24:13 AM)

Well You may have a point about the profile, but I haven't put much effort into it, because no matter how good the profile is, I don't count on a Domme finding me ... I know Chrismas is coming and at Chrismas miracles do happen, but I am not countin on one. Instead I focus on the first contact I am innitiating. When I say what I need/have to say, what is written in my profile is close to irrelevant. And yes, You are right that to some extend it was possible to find the fakes, but since they "learned" to become smarter, this is no longer the case. So there are ladies explaining how genuine they are, how long they've been in the lifestyle, what are their interests, their personalities etc. and once You initiate a contact, they either straight away give You a "task" to prove Your worth (whatever) or play some question/answer game and then get to the point.
So yes I am concerned that I'd rather invest time and effort in contacting genuine Dommes, than having to scroll through pages of Domme wannabes in need of money, just to find a profile that might seem legit and then again with a good chance You still hit a findom or prodomme



DarkSteven -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:32:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wh0re
When I say what I need/have to say, what is written in my profile is close to irrelevant.


Hmmm. When I write to someone whether initiated or replying, I always read the profile to see what they say about themselves.

Any ladies reading this thread who want to comment whether they do this or not? Is it valid that a message makes a profile irrelevant?



Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:35:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: wh0re
When I say what I need/have to say, what is written in my profile is close to irrelevant.


Hmmm. When I write to someone whether initiated or replying, I always read the profile to see what they say about themselves.

Any ladies reading this thread who want to comment whether they do this or not? Is it valid that a message makes a profile irrelevant?

When I read a message, I always go to read the sender's profile. If he doesn't have one, or if it contains nothing but a kink list, I rarely respond to the message.



wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 6:40:19 AM)

For males is kind of irrelevant in my oppinion as W/we are the ones that do the search. The ladies on the other hand are on the receiving end and they need to make the choice (which in general is plentyful) so yes it's normal for You read the profiles (I also do) but then again You are a male. And yes I seldom get my profile viewed by someone I haven't written before that and if it does it is generally a male that is viewing it.



DarkSteven -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 7:29:34 AM)

You're not following. I'm not saying that a profile is a tool to get women to initiate contact. I'm saying that the sequence goes like this:

1. Woman gets unsolicited message.
2. Woman checks out sender's profile.
3. Woman digests profile and message, and responds.

If she doesn't like what she sees in #2, #3 ain't gonna happen.

So far, spiritedsub2 (admittedly, a small sample size of one) has backed this up.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 7:43:54 AM)

Whore,
Thank you for this post. You've written something that we can actually have an honest discourse about (as opposed to merely whining). I don't mean that as an insult, but that's how I saw your earlier messages. You were merely whining about findommes.

So lets take a look at what you wrote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wh0re

Not to mention that most of them, as mentioned here don't even deliever the "service" they are paid for and just scam the subs out of their money.


That's your opinion. But clearly there are guys who do appreciate the "service" that findommes provide. One man's "scam" is another man's "Mistress". ;-)


quote:


They are contaminating this site, making it virtually impossible to even have the chance to talk to a genuine Domme


Ahhhh, so that's the crux of your issue. Well, I'm a male sub just like you are. And yet, I have no difficulty distinguishing the real Dommes from the findoms. So why are you having so much difficulty with this?

I'd argue that you're blaming the findoms for something that YOU are responsible for.

You don't get responses from the Dommes that you want to communicate with, so it's the findoms' fault because they clog up the site.

That answer totally eliminates the consept of personal responsibility. Let's take a look at your profile. I don't think you will find many Dommes on this message board who will say that they are attracted to it. In fact, I doubt that you'll find one. Ladies, would anyone care to share thoughts on his profile?

Then there is the way that you communicate here on the boards. Once again, you don't make a good impression. Each post that you've written has likely caused more Dommes to lose respect for you. Yet once again, you probably think that the findoms are responsible for that.


quote:


Okay if there are people that are into feeding the so-called "findommes/prodommes" it really is their choice


Thank you for finally acknowledging that everyone doesn't see this issue as you do, and that some people actually engage the services of findoms.

quote:


but let them have their own place - a place dedicated only to financial domination fans be it dominant or submissive where they can outcheat each others and negotiate their stuff and let the rest of the site be for the ones who look for actual BDSM relation


If you were the owner/developer of this site, that's how you would do it. But you're not. Do you tell AT&T how to run their business? Or Walmart? Or Facebook? Then why tell CollarMe how to run theirs?

If you want to see it done better/differently, then why not start your own site and put CollarMe out of business. That would truly prove that you were right and they were wrong. But something tells me that you're not going to do that. You're more comfortable whining and avoiding personal responsibility.

quote:


there is another suggestion - Force fem/pro dommes to tag themselves as such and put an option to filter them out.


But what about those Dommes who are both lifestyle and pro? Or pro and findom? Or lifestyle and findom? Everyone doesn't fit into one nice neat box. That's what you seem to be missing. In order to accommodate your own convenience, you will inadvertently inconvenience others.

quote:


it is kind of irritating to form and personalize a message, to spend 15-20 minutes to write it in a proper way just to receive an answer: add me on yahoo, my id is so and so and when you eventually decide to give this id a chance to receive a "task" to prove yourself by sending tribute, signing to a website, looking for a particular web model etc. etc.


And once again, we get to the crux of your issue. The Dommes on this site aren't attracted to you, and your attempts at communication are getting ignored. I'm sure that it hurts to be disregarded. It probably feels like an insult, and it hurts your self-esteem. But once again, I ask, "Do you have any personal responsibility in the responses (or lack thereof) that you're receiving?"

Like you, I'm a male sub. Yet I get a very high level of responses to the few messages that I send out. I get unsolicited messages from Dommes on a regular basis (both here and on FetLife). Most often, the messages that I receive compliment me on a post that I made in a discussion. I put myself out there, by posting regularly. And Dommes see that, and over time, they come to know how I think and what I'm about.

I don't mean to brag, but if I sent a personal message to most of the Dommes on this messageboard, I'd receive a response. And they know that if they write to me, I'm going to reply.

Think about it. If you were a woman, who would you be more likely to respond to; a total stranger who send you an unsolicited message, or someone that you've communicated with for months (or even years)? I think the answer is obvious. Yet, many male subs fail to realize that obvious truth, and they instead insist on sending out hundreds or thousands of unsolicited messages to women who know nothing about them. It's a silly approach, if you ask me. Yet men are doing it on this site, even as I write this.

Are there scammers on this site? Certainly! Are they easy to discern? Usually. Are they the reason that you can't find a Domme? Definitely not!

So stop whining, and get your own house in order. This site is all about marketing. Even though most male subs don't seem to understand that they're here to market themselves. And you can market yourself in a positive fashion or in a negative fashion. IMO, you've done nothing but market yourself negatively. Your profile is poorly done. Your avatar picture makes it look like you're merely a foot fetishist. Your name is unappealing. And your forum posts have consisted mainly of whining and name calling. Yet you blame your lack of success on the findoms. Do you see how silly and ironic that is?

Clean up your own house before you try cleaning up the houses of others. Personal responsibility is your friend.

Good luck in your search. And I mean that very sincerely.
-Roch



JeffBC -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 10:30:27 AM)

@Rochsub
Great post. In fact, exactly the sort of post that ensures you get responses when you write to dommes... and most everyone else I'd assume.

@wh0re
Your opinions and generalizations of how the searching happens don't represent all of reality. My experiences as a male dominant pretty much match Roch's as a male submissive. In other words... it isn't the findommes and it isn't your gender or orientation. It's your approach.



wh0re -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 10:57:28 AM)

I began writing a reply, but then I though ... it's worthless ... clearly there are quite some Masters of twisting the words. Well good a take my oppinion and just go away with it so I don't bother your tight closed society. Actually I will also have a second thought about the site as well - maybe i will just wait for a real BDSM site to show up in the internet space - one that is for people actually interested in BDSM, rather than classifieds for femdom escorts. All the best people, at least I found out why are there so many femdom prostitutes in here - they get such a support even on the boards, where most of them hardly ever set foot, because they don't want to waste time scaming people for money via their vulnarabilities. Keep up the good job on supporting them, maybe one day you'll get your share from their earnings



TNDommeK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 10:59:48 AM)

In response to DS's question, not only do I check out the profiles of who sends Me messages, but I also check to see if they have any posts on the forums. What do you think a Domme would think when she saw your posts Wh0re? I also would like to point out that not all fin Dommes are the same wh0re, so just because you feel the need to bunch them all together and call them prostitutes doesn't make you right. I'm pretty sure you could tell the difference when you viewed My profile, if you even took the time to read it.[8|]

and Roch I have a question about this statement:

quote:

Ahhhh, so that's the crux of your issue. Well, I'm a male sub just like you are. And yet, I have no difficulty distinguishing the real Dommes from the findoms. So why are you having so much difficulty with this?


Do you not feel fin or pro dommes are as real as lifestyle dommes? Or were you just referring to the ones who scam?



ETA: Just read the above post before I was done with Mine...and that ladies and gentlemen, is why that man will forever be single/unowned etc. No Domme wants someone who whines like that.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 11:09:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

and Roch I have a question about this statement:

quote:

Ahhhh, so that's the crux of your issue. Well, I'm a male sub just like you are. And yet, I have no difficulty distinguishing the real Dommes from the findoms. So why are you having so much difficulty with this?


Do you not feel fin or pro dommes are as real as lifestyle dommes? Or were you just referring to the ones who scam?



TNDommeK,
Good catch. Sorry about that. I wasn't clear in what I wrote. I was specifically talking about the scammers. I didn't mean to imply that ALL findoms are not real. My mistake.



DonRosti -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 11:23:32 AM)

[image]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2_VefOX5kWc/UNIT-7sGGoI/AAAAAAAAADY/WQbrlUdHpug/s1600/gold-digger.jpg[/image]



TNDommeK -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 11:25:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009


quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

and Roch I have a question about this statement:

quote:

Ahhhh, so that's the crux of your issue. Well, I'm a male sub just like you are. And yet, I have no difficulty distinguishing the real Dommes from the findoms. So why are you having so much difficulty with this?


Do you not feel fin or pro dommes are as real as lifestyle dommes? Or were you just referring to the ones who scam?



TNDommeK,
Good catch. Sorry about that. I wasn't clear in what I wrote. I was specifically talking about the scammers. I didn't mean to imply that ALL findoms are not real. My mistake.


Oh I still love ya!! [:)]



VioletViolence -> RE: Is financial domination a legitimate form of D/s? (12/19/2012 11:26:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

You're not following. I'm not saying that a profile is a tool to get women to initiate contact. I'm saying that the sequence goes like this:

1. Woman gets unsolicited message.
2. Woman checks out sender's profile.
3. Woman digests profile and message, and responds.

If she doesn't like what she sees in #2, #3 ain't gonna happen.

So far, spiritedsub2 (admittedly, a small sample size of one) has backed this up.


@wh0re, DarkSteven is correct. Let me start off by saying that I'm neither a pro, nor a FinDomme and I do peruse profiles and contact the ones I find interesting. I don't just sit around and wait for subs to come to me. And I would never in a million years contact someone with a profile like yours and if you'd contacted me, it'd have to be just short of Shakespeare in order to get a favourable response. So....yeah, your profile combined with your angry attitude is basically shooting yourself in the foot.



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