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Kayaking - 8/29/2012 10:42:34 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Okay I confess it freely, my impulse control is wibbly-wobbly.

One of my friends posted a picture of this place (hope pic uploaded!) Turnip Island, which is at the tip of the thumb of Michigan. It's on private land, so you can only get there via... kayak.

Yes, the watercraft of DOOM. I have no fear of the water. I DO have fear of being trapped underneath it IN A KAYAK. Yeahhhhh... but it's all good. Sure it is. I've got one of my girls coming with me, and whoever else I can persuade to come out.

Any HELPFUL HINTS for the kayak tyro?




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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 10:44:25 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Trying again




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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 10:50:40 AM   
needlesandpins


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no hints at all for you Hibbie, but that is a superb photo!

it's a giant's bonsai tree group. love it

needles

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 10:55:19 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Isn't it fabulous! And it's only a two hour drive from home, how can I resist? Well... pretty easily, I suppose, but I am NOT resisting!

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 10:57:33 AM   
igor2003


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I'm not sure I understand why it is "only by kayak" since there are other forms of water craft including, jet skis, canoes, row boats, motor boats, paddle boats, etc.

However, if kayaks are, indeed, the only option and you have a fear of capsizing then why not go to a qualified kayak instructor and learn how to right an overturned kayak before going on your excursion? 

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 10:59:58 AM   
JeffBC


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As a fairly experienced kayaker I think you have a few common misconceptions.

The Watercraft of DOOM
In point of fact the hull design of modern kayaks was so perfected by the time computers came along that really we've managed to do nothing much to improve it. These are highly stable craft suited quite well to both rough and calm water -- just as you'd expect given the crucible in which these designs were forged. In actual fact I think I flipped my kayak once unintentionally. It was in 3 inches of water (which is common) because I was resting and looking over my shoulder at Carol. If you are properly braced in a kayak then actually flipping one takes some doing. They FEEL all tippy (particularly round hulls or soft-chine) but the resistance to rolling ramps up steeply as you roll further and further.

I DO have fear of being trapped underneath it IN A KAYAK.
Either with or without a skirt getting trapped underwater in a kayak is only likely to happen if you are the type to absolutely panic when your face hits water or if you are terribly drunk. When the boat rolls over all one needs to is calm yourself till everything settles down, reach forward and pull the strap on your skit which unhooks it (you DID remember to make sure the strap wasn't inside the boat, right?) and then slide yourself out of the boat. The whole operation -- including a moment to calm yourself -- takes at most 15 seconds. Your fear of this will be readily addressed with some simple (but important) safety instruction than a try or two in 4' of water with a friend standing by.

Now... I looked at a map and I'm seeing 100m of water give or take. Honestly, given that short of a span the worst case scenario is you simply abandon the boat and swim back to shore in the life vest I'm sure you have brought along. Water temperature may dictate a wet suit also. I'm also gathering you don't own these kayaks. That means it's likely you'll be renting sit-on-tops rather than real kayaks. These are basically flat floating pieces of plastic which are awful from an efficiency standpoint but you can't get trapped underneath one since it has no "interior" and they are very stable to aid climbing back onto. The rest only really applies if you are using real kayaks -- the kind you actually sit IN rather than on.

The part you NEED to be more worried about is getting back in the boat again. If you don't know how to do that in deep water then you shouldn't be in deep water... period. Rolling a kayak is easier for some than others. But there are simple ways to empty the boat and get back in that don't involve complex timed movements. That means you need to have the proper safety equipment... a paddle float and a pump and they must be secured to your kayak in a way you can reach them. You NEED to have practiced this before hand. It's not hard you just don't want to figure it out the first time when you're panicked. Basically, you make an outrigger setup using the paddle float attached to the end of your paddle and the other end of the paddle wedged into the rigging on the kayak then using this newfound stability you climb aboard... carefully.

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:05:51 AM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Trying again





holey mother of ****

is that heaven?

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:07:36 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Thanks, Jeff.

This whole venture is close to shore and SHALLOW water, certainly twenty feet or less, and I am a good treader of water, and swimmer. I also don't panic. The water in Lake Huron is cold, but not wet suit cold in September. These are sit IN kayaks, the sit ON ones I am fine with! I am not actually worried about tipping the kayak, the water will be calm close in, it's the IDEA of being trapped. Someone drowns in a kayak near me every summer, and yeah they're usually doing something stupid in a spillway, but STILL. I would be fine just swimming to shore, or shallower water, should I get astoundingly clumsy.

Igor, the area around the cliffs is often a foot of water or less, most watercraft can't get in that close. CANOES and I are a NO. They feel tippy, just like kayaks do.



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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:23:11 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
This whole venture is close to shore and SHALLOW water, certainly twenty feet or less, and I am a good treader of water, and swimmer. I also don't panic. The water in Lake Huron is cold, but not wet suit cold in September. These are sit IN kayaks, the sit ON ones I am fine with! I am not actually worried about tipping the kayak, the water will be calm close in, it's the IDEA of being trapped. Someone drowns in a kayak near me every summer, and yeah they're usually doing something stupid in a spillway, but STILL. I would be fine just swimming to shore, or shallower water, should I get astoundingly clumsy.

OK then.. refining my answer.

Deep water means anything over your nose. If you can't stand upright in it and calmly empty your boat then you need to know how to do a deep water re-entry. Or... as in this case... you simply need to be willing to abandon the boat and swim to safety and then let someone else go tow it in (which is really hard paddling by the way). Here's what I'd recommend for safety equipment.

Life vest: This goes without saying. Anyone who gets into a kayak without one is, in my opinion, a statistic waiting to happen.
Skirt: Don't use one. The only purpose of the skirt is to keep big waves from swamping your boat. It's a hassle otherwise.
Tow Rope: about 15' long with a carabiner attached at each end. Used to tow now defunct boat back to shore for emptying :)
Paddle Leash: It's a pain in the ass when they float away from you. Rig a leash around one wrist or to the rigging of the boat. Also, paddles can be expensive. Ours were only mid-range carbon fiber and they were $200 each. So losing one is expensive too.

Without a skirt, the way you get out from under an upside down kayak is you simply reach down with both hands and put them on the edge of the cockpit combing and lift yourself out of the boat. It's the same way you'd life yourself out of an arm chair of you were a bit tired just upside down. It really, really, isn't complicated since you're not the panicky type there's really no way you could "get trapped" -- particularly without a skirt. Practice one or twice in 4' of water to get the feel of it and you'll see instantly that there's really nothing to be afraid of.

If you want to be more "pro" it'd look like this.

Still no skirt: No point and it's hot and a hassle.
Recovery gear: Tucked in the rigging just behind your cockpit combing we rolled up a paddle float and the bilge pump. You MUST make sure you it is actually clipped to the rigging. Don't trust simply tucking anything under the rigging unless you don't care about losing it.

How the recovery works is not complicated. You swim back to the boat and roll it over which isn't hard to do from outside the boat. IF you find it hard, you can always jam the paddle under the rigging and then reach over the boat from the other side and use the paddle as a lever while you lean backwards. Once the boat is upright, you rig the paddle float to the end of the paddle and make the impromptu outrigger setup I just talked about above. Then you jam the other blade of the paddle under the rigging just behind the cockpit. Presto... much more stable kayak. Now you use the bilge pump and empty out most of the water and use the combination of outrigger and kayak to climb back in. Really, the only risk is embarrassment since it's easy to put your weight on the far side of the boat as you climb in and roll it over the other way :) Again, this can be practiced in 7' of water to get the hang of it and is, in and of itself, a lot of fun.


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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:25:50 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Where does the aggressive cursing fit in? That can be anytime, right?

And OH HELL NO to a skirt.

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:28:34 AM   
LaTigresse


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I would never ever ever NEVER get in a kayak. But I love canoes.

And Ash, you seriously need to come to the US so Hibby can show you..........stuff.

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:32:02 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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So why no kayaks, LeeAnn? WHAT ARE YOU NOT TELLING ME???

I've been in a canoe twice, both times I was ready to jump out and swim.

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:35:33 AM   
LaTigresse


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It's the flipping over thing. They scare the begeesus out of me.

A canoe if it rolls, I can easily be free of it. Not so a kayak. Just the thought, trapped upside down, under water.......oh fucking hell no. Just thinking about it gives me that icky heart thumping feeling.

I've canoed a lot, been dumped out by dumbass drunk co-canoers ( Generic Dude reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaalllllllllllyyyyyyyy suffered for that I can tell you), and aside from stinking like the fucking river, no problem. I can swim. But to be stuck inside the craft, upside down, under water........total heebie jeebies.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/29/2012 11:38:46 AM >


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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:42:54 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Yeah that's my big issue as well.

Jeff says I willl not die. I will SO fucking haunt him if he's wrong.

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:48:36 AM   
Hillwilliam


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There are ocean kayaks that you sit on top of and they're VERY stable. You folks are thinking of a traditional white water kayak that has the spray skirt. I have a feeling that this is what you will be using Hibbie..




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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:50:09 AM   
LaTigresse


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The only kayak I've seen are the ones like they use in the river my sister lives near. They do not look at all like that one!

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:50:44 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Where does the aggressive cursing fit in? That can be anytime, right? And OH HELL NO to a skirt.

*laughs* As I said, the only time I actually did it was in 3 inches of water which is the norm. And honestly, it wasn't cursing so much as blushing.

And the skirt... as I said I'd avoid it due to inconvenience and pointlessness. But even with the skirt you've added exactly one step. The skirt is snugged in around your waist so it's attached to you. But the only thing attaching it to the boat is the shock cord which wraps around the combing... a bit of elastic. Skirts have a pull tab front center for just this purpose. You reach forward.. find the tab and pull. The elastic comes undone and then you get out as above. And honestly, even if it's a novice kayaker and they got their tab inside rather than outside so it's unreachable I still can't imagine failing to get the skirt loose assuming a reasonably level head.


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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:52:32 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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You just need to inhale ONCE!!

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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:53:37 AM   
LaTigresse


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Like this




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RE: Kayaking - 8/29/2012 11:53:40 AM   
LadyPact


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Thanks, Hil. In skimming this thread, I was kind of wondering about that. I seem to recall a certain person in My past life who mentioned various levels of the white water kind. One being the calmest and five being the stuff that would scare the shit out of those of us who don't participate.


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