UllrsIshtar
Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
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quote:
ORIGINAL: graceadieu
Hmm, well, I see that as being no submission to speak of either. In my mind the distinction you're making is the difference between a bottom and sub, or at least a bedroom sub vs. a 24/7 sub, not the difference between sub and slave. In my mind, the latter is a difference in how far they're willing to take it.
For example, I can't really imagine refusing my Dom something he really really wants. There's been some times where it's taken me a few weeks to come around to it, or where I've tried and failed, but the default is always yes. But that's because I know he doesn't want any of the things I'd really have a problem with. I just wouldn't stay with someone that was going to, say, take all my assets or put me in horrible agony or make me do something immoral. I think if I were a slave, I wouldn't have those boundaries. But anyways, back to your statement, he doesn't forcibly overcome my will or anything like that - I just follow his lead because that's how we are. He doesn't need to force me, because he makes good choices for me and I always want to follow him.
Submission isn't a requirement for slavery.
Submission is an action. Something that the person who submits actively does. Slavery is a state in which one is -held by something or someone external to oneself.
To submit means to accept, to yield to, or surrender. It takes the active choice and action of the submissive to accomplish this. If a person doesn't yield, surrender and/or accepts the authority of another, they do not submit even if they do comply and/or obey.
Slavery doesn't require submission, because slavery is the subjugation of a person to an external force/influence. To be subjugated, one does not need to choose to accept, or yield to, or surrender to the external force... all that's needed is that the external force does indeed rule.
Now slavery in a BDSM context is very often paired with submission. In fact, most all people see it preferable that a slave also chooses to submit, and indeed is happy by submitting, but that doesn't mean that submission is actually a necessary factor in slavery. Slavery means not being capable of telling the external force/influence ruling you "no", precisely because it is ruling you. Whether or not your compliance to that external force/influence is achieved by yielding and/or submission or some other means is quite irrelevant.
Also, when I said "external force" I don't mean force as in violent force. More like force in the meaning of "power, influence, entity". The reason I use the word "force" is to denote that it takes something that actively influences you outside yourself to create a slave. You cannot be a slave to yourself. A slave is something you are to something, or somebody else.
Submission, on the other hand, is very much an internal process. It's quite possible to submit, without there being anything external to yourself that is requiring, pushing for, or demanding submission. Submission is the internal state of yielding, by choosing internally to not do the opposite of yielding... resisting.
Slavery is a reaction to an external influence/force. You cannot internally choose to be enslaved, as long as there is nothing enslaving you to it.
Again... that's the way both concepts process for me, and how I define them. I'm aware that other people view and process the different ways. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with other people approaching these concepts differently, or that my way of doing it is the correct way while everybody else is incorrect.
< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/2/2012 2:05:26 PM >
_____________________________
I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for
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RE: What does is really mean to be a slave? - 
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