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Show us, give us a link to the speech... Gotta prove something you call a fact around here.

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

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ORIGINAL: BoundSlave4Life

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

1, The OPINION PIECE you posted was written by a liberal activist, so there's no point in disputing her "facts". It's a hatchet opinion piece, nothing more.
2, Ryan never said that Obama caused the GM plant to close, he quoted Obama when Obama said government would be there for them. Since the government wasn't there for them, and the plant closed... How exactly is what Ryan said a lie?
3, How exactly is what Ryan said about the stimulus a lie? Didn't the banks, and UAW er GM & Chrysler get the majority of the stimulus funds?

Continue to post attacks on Ryan & Romney, it's the only hope your side has left.

The fear is delicious...

I don't know about 1 and 3 BUT Ryan said that "Obama Promised to keep that GM plant in business, but less than a year after Obama was in office, the plant closed down"
Obama promised nothing of the sort. Obama said that we "Should" keep that plant going. The plant DID get closed, but Obama wasn't even in office yet when it occurred. It's very possible that it was just an accurate statement that he didn't know was a blatant lie (Which I would like to believe), or he was lying to... as your post said... stir up "Fear" and anger.

Those aren't opinions. Those are simple FACTS.

Show us, give us a link to the speech... Gotta prove something you call a fact around here.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling.

Not tue.

Fact: The credit rating was downgraded because we were required to reduce our debt, not increase it. How does anyone get a better credit rating by increasing their debt even more than they can afford now?

Of course they cannot. The debt ceiling could only be raised if we produced a plan to reduce spending also and Obama and the Senate had no will to do that and refused to do so. This was the other side of the equation and simply encreasing the debt celling would not save our credit rating. Again, how would raising our already ginormous debt save our credt rating? It would not.

I don't plan on spending anymore time on the rest of the "facts" since it is clearly not needed. They, like this statement, are all half true which means they are not true.

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Look at who the S&P blames in its statement:

Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act. Key macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ryan-speech-fact-check-on-aaa-credit-rating-2012-8#ixzz25GZNScLA

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ORIGINAL: BoundSlave4Life

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

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ORIGINAL: BoundSlave4Life

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

1, The OPINION PIECE you posted was written by a liberal activist, so there's no point in disputing her "facts". It's a hatchet opinion piece, nothing more.
2, Ryan never said that Obama caused the GM plant to close, he quoted Obama when Obama said government would be there for them. Since the government wasn't there for them, and the plant closed... How exactly is what Ryan said a lie?
3, How exactly is what Ryan said about the stimulus a lie? Didn't the banks, and UAW er GM & Chrysler get the majority of the stimulus funds?

Continue to post attacks on Ryan & Romney, it's the only hope your side has left.

The fear is delicious...

I don't know about 1 and 3 BUT Ryan said that "Obama Promised to keep that GM plant in business, but less than a year after Obama was in office, the plant closed down"
Obama promised nothing of the sort. Obama said that we "Should" keep that plant going. The plant DID get closed, but Obama wasn't even in office yet when it occurred. It's very possible that it was just an accurate statement that he didn't know was a blatant lie (Which I would like to believe), or he was lying to... as your post said... stir up "Fear" and anger.

Those aren't opinions. Those are simple FACTS.

Show us, give us a link to the speech... Gotta prove something you call a fact around here.

Looks like someone found it for me. Thank you, tazzygirl.
Do you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion? It seems so.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Opinion?s=t
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact?s=t

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Here’s what Ryan, a 12-year congressman, said Wednesday at the Republican National Convention: “You know, I live in Janesville, Wis. We used to have a big General Motors plant. A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant.

Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008.

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Nice cherry picking there Taz, once again your "facts" are wrong... Perhaps it's you Bound, who doesn't know the definition...

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So, care to show me where the lie is again?

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Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008.

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Obama told the workers: “I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard Gov. (Jim) Doyle has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you’ve made — how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you’re churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you and give you the assistance you need to retool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

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Those are the steps we can take to ease the cost crisis facing working families. But we still need to make sure that families are working. We need to maintain our competitive edge in a global by ensuring that plants like this one stay open for another hundred years, and shuttered factories re-open as new industries that promise new jobs. And we need to put more Americans to work doing jobs that need to be done right here in America.

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This can be America’s future. I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your Governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you’ve made – how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you’re churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your President.

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

You still haven't proven Ryan's statement was a lie.

Did Ryan say it was Obama's fault the plant closed?
Did Ryan say Obama had a choice in which plant GM kept open?

No and No, Ryan said Obama told the workers that with government help, the plant would stay open... The plant didn't stay open, and his friends were out of work... Where exactly did Ryan say it was due to Obama?
It's not like Obama bailed on his green jobs initiative, or did he?

None of this matters, those who believe Ryan lied weren't going to vote for R/R anyway, and this story only proves that the left "media" in this country all use the same talking points, which are more than likely released from the White House.

So keep that hope in your heart, and continue to wish for a change, in the end Obama will lose because he sucked as a President... And that dear Tazzy is a stone cold FACT.

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Did Ryan say it was Obama's fault the plant closed?
Did Ryan say Obama had a choice in which plant GM kept open?

No and No, Ryan said Obama told the workers that with government help, the plant would stay open... The plant didn't stay open, and his friends were out of work... Where exactly did Ryan say it was due to Obama?

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ORIGINAL: BoundSlave4Life
Looks like someone found it for me. Thank you, tazzygirl.
Do you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion? It seems so.

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ORIGINAL: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=truthiness
truthiness

According to an interview Stephen Colbert gave on 60 minutes, he defined it this way:

"Truthiness is what you want the facts to be, as opposed to what the facts are. What feels like the right answer, as opposed to what reality will support."
On "The Word" Colbert's example of Truthiness was: If you think about The War in Iraq, maybe there a few missing pieces to the rationale for war, but doesn’t taking Saddam out "feel" like the right thing?

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Rob, what's troubling to me is that the president (then, candidate) not only believed his statement but he lives by. I don't think he believes that anything can happen without "government help". That's always been one of my biggest issues with the current failure-in-chief. It's his whole ideology. It's the mindset from which all his answers procede.

While that didn't prevent people from voting for him, the first time, I am starting to believe that the American people aren't quite as dumb as I believed them to be. I am starting to have hope that change is going to take place. Maybe the president does have foresight but it's just on a four year learning curve?
Michael

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Maybe the president does have foresight but it's just on a four year learning curve?

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

1, The OPINION PIECE you posted was written by a liberal activist, so there's no point in disputing her "facts". It's a hatchet opinion piece, nothing more.
2, Ryan never said that Obama caused the GM plant to close, he quoted Obama when Obama said government would be there for them. Since the government wasn't there for them, and the plant closed... How exactly is what Ryan said a lie?
3, How exactly is what Ryan said about the stimulus a lie? Didn't the banks, and UAW er GM & Chrysler get the majority of the stimulus funds?

Continue to post attacks on Ryan & Romney, it's the only hope your side has left.

The fear is delicious...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/paul-ryan-and-the-post-truth-convention-speech/261775/

"I am impressed, in a bad way, that Ryan thought he could just brazen it through. But it is also impressive that, at least in the short run, parts of the press are responding as they must in an era when politicians don't care. That is, they're not simply quoting "critics" about things Ryan made up. They are outright saying that he is telling lies. For instance:

*The Washington Post's Glenn Kessler, with the headline, "Ryan misleads on GM plant closing in hometown."
*A more omnibus fact-check item also by Kessler, with half a dozen similar exaggerations, distortions, etc.
*A very tough item by Jonathan Bernstein, on the WaPo's Plum Line blog, with the headline "Paul Ryan fails -- the truth."
*And another on the Post's site by Ezra Klein. Sample: "Quite simply, the Romney campaign isn't adhering to the minimum standards required for a real policy conversation."
*And even a WaPo editorial on the misleading nature of the speech.
*An excoriation by Jonathan Cohn, in The New Republic, under the headline, "The Most Dishonest Convention Speech ... Ever?" As Cohn adds: "I'd like to talk... about what Ryan actually said--not because I find Ryan's ideas objectionable, although I do, but because I thought he was so brazenly willing to twist the truth.

"At least five times, Ryan misrepresented the facts. And while none of the statements were new, the context was. It's one thing to hear them on a thirty-second television spot or even in a stump speech before a small crowd. It's something else entirely to hear them in prime time address, as a vice presidential nominee is accepting his party's nomination and speaking to the entire country."

*I know that TNR is not "mainstream" in the sense that the NYT, WaPo, AP, etc., are. Still this is a very powerful item. And it leads to:
*An AP item headlined, "FACT CHECK: Ryan takes factual shortcuts in speech."
*An item from NPR with a mildly "he said, she said" headline ("Fact Checkers Say Some of Ryan's Claims Don't Add Up") but that gets the main points across.
*One just now from the NYT, with the headline "In Ryan Critique of Obama, Omissions Help Make the Case." It begins this way: "In his speech accepting the Republican nomination for vice president at the Republican National Convention, Representative Paul D. Ryan criticized President Obama for seeking Medicare cuts that he once sought as well, and for failing to act on a deficit-reduction plan that he too opposed."
*Another excoriation by Michael Tomasky, in the Daily Beast, that is headlined "Paul Ryan's Convention Speech and his Web of Lies" and which begins, "It just boggles the mind to imagine how Paul Ryan can stand up there and lash Barack Obama for abandoning Bowles-Simpson when he did exactly that himself."
*An item on the Fox News site for which there must be an interesting backstory, in which contributor Sally Kohn says that "Ryan's speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."
*On TPM, a catalogue with the headline "Top 5 Fibs in Paul Ryan's Convention Speech."
*Update An excellent item I had somehow missed before, by Jonathan Chait in NY Mag, about "Paul Ryan's Large Lies and One Big Truth." Worth reading in general, and to see what that "truth" is.
*And Dave Weigel in Slate, plus Zack Beauchamp in Think Progress, about the euphemisms some reporters still use in order to avoid saying that Ryan "lied."

To restate the larger points for the moment: The bad one is that a major party's nominee for national office apparently just doesn't care that he is standing in front of millions and telling easily catchable lies. The less-bad one is that the media are noticing"

Links to all of these pieces are in the article link above.