RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 12:37:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Remember, bathing, soaking and washing after sex makes men more liable to infection;

This of course only applied to bathing less than 3 min. after having sex. It also may only apply to African conditions, we don't know because the researchers messed up and forgot to ask. For instance did they wash their genitals in soap or just soak them in fecal water? If they used soap, was it an African soap containing harsh irritants?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
it's the DRYING that cuts down on HIV,

That is of course one of several hypothetical completely untested explanations for the surveys results and has absolutely no business being presented as fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
like, you know, circumcision.

Even if methodological problems didn't effect the results, I'm not alone in wondering if there's an actual benefit outside of sub-Saharan Africa.



GotSteel -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 2:50:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Frankly, if the whole "pressure" issue is from her husband, than the two of them need to sit down and discuss it like adults.

Of course. That said as heated and emotional as this conversation gets among us when it's just an abstract concept, some trepidation over disagreeing with a significant other when it comes to someone you both really care about seems valid to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
It must be really nice to have a pregnancy where the biggest concern for all parties involved is whether or not to circumcise.

Personally I'm attached to all of my body parts, if my parents had decided to have something cut off of me I would hope that it was kind of a big deal.



Aswad -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 3:24:51 PM)

[sm=applause.gif]



Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 7:31:46 PM)

I dont know, I had a girl but I heard you are really pressured to circumcise. Nope no pressure from my husband. He is rather chill about it. And yes the biggest thing we have thought of is if we have a boy will we circumcise. Personally we are not sure if we will or not, but then again I am only 4 months and will not know for a bit if we are having a boy or a girl. But the article was about german court not my decision. But I do not want to hear a bunch of pressure from medical professionals to go one way or another when the AAP itself says the only benefit is STD protection and should not be routinely done.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/103/3/686.full

quote:

Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child.



But I found this on a parenting board I am on and OMG the fight can be one when this topic comes up there. There are moms there that feel this is child abuse then the moms who had it done get offended. One of my friends has two boys. I asked her today and she told me they put a cream on her boys then gave them a shot, she was there the entire time and they slept through it. So I am not actually worried about the pain if I have a boy.



tazzygirl -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 7:59:57 PM)

quote:

I dont know, I had a girl but I heard you are really pressured to circumcise. Nope no pressure from my husband. He is rather chill about it. And yes the biggest thing we have thought of is if we have a boy will we circumcise. Personally we are not sure if we will or not, but then again I am only 4 months and will not know for a bit if we are having a boy or a girl. But the article was about german court not my decision. But I do not want to hear a bunch of pressure from medical professionals to go one way or another when the AAP itself says the only benefit is STD protection and should not be routinely done.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/103/3/686.full


Well, Considering Labor and Delivery is my field, I can see how you would want to ignore what I said.



Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 8:06:06 PM)

Yeah I saw it, you named off everything they scream at. My daughter did not cry much as a baby. She fussed with the heel stick but never screamed. When she was born they took her right away to the warmer and she was just looking around not making a sound. The doctor ended up saying I would feel a little better if I heard a little cry. Her first bath she was not thrilled but as soon as the nurse wrapped her in a towel she was happy. My husband stayed with her and told me about it.

Oh and I saw your second one. Yeah every place is different. The two big hospitals here are very different. One does not give you a choice about taking the baby to the nursery while the other will let you skip the nursery bath and do an in room one as long as baby is fine as well as skip the eye goup. The other does not give you a choice. There was one hospital a few hours from here that called CPS and took a newborn for the mother refusing a Vit K. I am not sure about the ones here since I did not refuse anything.



tazzygirl -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 8:41:43 PM)

quote:

Oh and I saw your second one. Yeah every place is different. The two big hospitals here are very different. One does not give you a choice about taking the baby to the nursery while the other will let you skip the nursery bath and do an in room one as long as baby is fine as well as skip the eye goup. The other does not give you a choice. There was one hospital a few hours from here that called CPS and took a newborn for the mother refusing a Vit K. I am not sure about the ones here since I did not refuse anything.


I find the CPS thing a bit hard to believe considering parents can refuse. They are just explained the risks and sign a form refusing the Vit K and hep shot.



Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 8:52:09 PM)

I know right. I saw an article on it a while back through our local news webpage. It was actually the parents suing since a judge gave them the baby back 48 hours later. Since it was not local our news never kept up with it and I was not interested enough to keep track of what happened.

OH but a mom I am friends with online also refused and her baby got very very sick and was put on life support. Her online research led her to her skipping the vit K shot is what allowed her baby to become so sick. After following her story I would never skip it.



tazzygirl -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 8:59:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

I know right. I saw an article on it a while back through our local news webpage. It was actually the parents suing since a judge gave them the baby back 48 hours later. Since it was not local our news never kept up with it and I was not interested enough to keep track of what happened.


Here is what bothers me with your posting on this topic. You claim to feel pressure from the medical community to do something you dont wish to do. Thats with a well baby and a simple procedure. What are you going to do if your child becomes ill? My mother and I are both nurses, but we had to fight the Doctors for ear tubes due to recurring ear infections which were holding up an orthopedic surgery he required.

I think what you view as pressure is, in fact, the education process. As parents, its your job to ask questions.

As medical personnel, its their job to make sure you understand what you are refusing and to keep checking to make sure someone down the line didnt make a mistake in noting your refusal.

Be thankful they are that thorough



Rule -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 9:00:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes
she told me they put a cream on her boys then gave them a shot, she was there the entire time and they slept through it

Do you know that lots of females get breast cancer? The best way to prevent breast cancer from occurring, is to amputate the breast when it is still healthy. They put a cream on the breasts and then give them a shot. I am assured that the baby's do not feel pain at all at that moment and sleep quietly through it.

Come to think of it, that is also an ideal method to prevent brain cancer and/or stupidity and/or mental illness: simply put a cream on the neck and then give them a shot. They ought to feel not any pain when their head is being amputated and undoubtedly will sleep quietly through the procedure.

Every responsible parent ought to give his permission to have their new born girl's breasts and head amputated. If one doesn't, if one refuses money to be spent on such a sound medical procedure, clearly such a parent is a heartless bastard who does not love the baby.



Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 9:26:04 PM)

Nope I said if I have another girl I wont have to worry about any pressure. I only have friends who have boys to go on that the pediatrician they had pushed for it to be done routinely.


I have hear many similar arguments Rule. Like one reason they push for it is UTI so people say if it prevents them then why dont they remove parts of little girls genitalia and such. It is a topic that has gotten several threads locked on several of the parenting sites I am on. People get outright vicious on this topic there. There were a few that were outright fights that I am sure had they been in the same room they would have been throwing punches.



tazzygirl -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 9:37:50 PM)

quote:

I have hear many similar arguments Rule. Like one reason they push for it is UTI so people say if it prevents them then why dont they remove parts of little girls genitalia and such.


You believe they are the same?



Moonlightmaddnes -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/1/2012 9:44:47 PM)

LOL no. Honestly this is not about my or my husband's decision. I just found it interesting the German court ruled this way. I have seen a lot of the all out fighting debates on it is all. Honest I posted about the article and simply commented about youtube video I saw that was very hard to watch and thought if I had another girl then I do not even have to worry about this. It was a quick post before leaving for an OB appt and I almost forgot about it.



thishereboi -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 4:36:05 AM)

quote:

Come to think of it, that is also an ideal method to prevent brain cancer and/or stupidity and/or mental illness: simply put a cream on the neck and then give them a shot. They ought to feel not any pain when their head is being amputated and undoubtedly will sleep quietly through the procedure.


Would it stop people from posting really stupid shit like comparing getting your head cut off to getting a flap of skin cut off? Something to think about[8|]



DaddySatyr -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 4:41:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonlightmaddnes

Nope I said if I have another girl I wont have to worry about any pressure. I only have friends who have boys to go on that the pediatrician they had pushed for it to be done routinely.


I have hear many similar arguments Rule. Like one reason they push for it is UTI so people say if it prevents them then why dont they remove parts of little girls genitalia and such. It is a topic that has gotten several threads locked on several of the parenting sites I am on. People get outright vicious on this topic there. There were a few that were outright fights that I am sure had they been in the same room they would have been throwing punches.



No. No. No. You've stepped into quicksand!

You can't bring female circumcision into the discussion. That is always wrong and will get you accused of waging a "war on women". Are you a registered republican, by any chance? If you are, that would assure your guilt, as far as most around here are concerned.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



Rule -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 4:48:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Would it stop people from posting really stupid shit like comparing getting your head cut off to getting a flap of skin cut off? Something to think about[8|]

You disappoint me, thishereboi. I expect high intellectual and cognitive abilities in you. Please do some thinking yourself.



Aswad -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 5:18:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

You can't bring female circumcision into the discussion.


I think bringing hood removal into the debate is perfectly legitimate, at the very least. That's entirely comparable, and illegal in a lot of places. Of course, it's not possible to show someone already circumcised what the difference is, but it's been recommended that one that hasn't been should try going for a few hours with the foreskin retracted to get a vague impression of at least some aspects of it. My experience led me to the conclusion that it's not just women that are shortchanged in sex with a cut dick, but each to their own.

In any case, there's absolutely no problem with putting off circumcision until the boy reaches sexual maturity, which fits perfectly with the idea of "each to their own", since that lets the boy choose for himself without any drawbacks to doing it that way. Unless, of course, you're of the mind that a certain deity is going to punish your kid because you made a particular choice on its behalf, or that Lilith is going to come do evil things to it because said deity refuses to protect people with foreskins. Presently, there is no evidence of either, strong evidence against the latter, and ample evidence that some grow up to resent having had their genitals mutilated without their consent.

Reason dictates putting it off until they can choose, and educating them along the way as to facts and beliefs about it.

Well, that, or going back to having kids be the property of their parents until adulthood.

IWYW,
— Aswad.




DaddySatyr -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 5:37:13 AM)

You are such a smart man that I find it impossible to believe that irony/sarcasm escapes you.



Musicmystery -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 5:39:48 AM)

Actually, he's simply a few steps ahead of you.



tazzygirl -> RE: German court rules circumcision is assult (9/2/2012 10:26:01 AM)

quote:

I think bringing hood removal into the debate is perfectly legitimate, at the very least. That's entirely comparable, and illegal in a lot of places.


From a medical standpoint (since we arent speaking of religion here), what complications may arise from a male not having a circumcision and what complications, medically, may arise from a female not having one?



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