What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter)

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amaidiamond -> What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:38:55 PM)
Warning - this might be depressing as hell. I don't know what to feel, do, say at the moment. My oldest friend and I have been friends 26 years since we were 4. We grew up together, leaned on each other and always turned to the other when trouble hit. Well basically I am "godmother" to her kids, two girls and a boy... earlier this year she told me she was expecting and asked me if I would once again be godmother to her latest baby. I agreed and followed the pregnancy, I was meant to travel and visit in January for the christening (we no longer live locally) My friend has had issues with all pregnancy's and gone into labour early, to prevent this in the last pregnancy a stitch was placed in to prevent it. Her doctor wanted her to have it for this baby but the hospital refused, saying that it could lead to premature labour and instead to take hormonal tablets (I don't know which but she said they were similar to ones given to menopausal women?) At 19 weeks she went to hospital because she was loosing liquid between her legs.... she was turned away. A week later at 20 weeks she was loosing liquid and blood and she was monitored, at 21 weeks labour started. The hospital were dithering about giving her injections to stop the contractions They spent so long it was too late, she gave birth at 21 weeks and a couple of days to a baby boy. He was born alive and breathing, she begged them to help him but they refused - hospital policy is that babies under 22 weeks are not viable for treatment. He died in her arms 15 mins later, the whole time spent with her pleading for him to be treated. Funeral is Monday. I don't know what I am going to say, how I am going to support her as his coffin goes down. What can I say when no words will help? Shes blaming herself - she believes if she had ignored the hospital and fought for the stitch he would still be inside her She has a lawyer and they say she has a case for negligence but that is little consolation now Her head is messed up and i have no idea what to do. As for me, my feelings.... anger and numbness, the world is gray. Edited for messed up spelling

DaddySatyr -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:45:20 PM)
How fucking heartless does a professional caregiver have to be to just allow this kind of shit to go on. Roosevelt said: "When your neighbor's house is on fire, you don't spend time, haggling over the cost of your garden hose" May those nurses and doctors that stood like stones learn how that feels, one day. Peace and comfort, Michael

LadyHibiscus -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:47:23 PM)
The poor lady. I'm so glad you're there for her, Dia! Medical stuff aside (and it does sound like she was being treated by idiots) it's going to be a hard few weeks until her hormones settle and her milk dries up. Honestly, I don't think her baby could have been saved, but that's not important now. I hope she can focus on her other children, and let them help her through this.

amaidiamond -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:53:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr How fucking heartless does a professional caregiver have to be to just allow this kind of shit to go on. I think that it would rip them too quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Medical stuff aside (and it does sound like she was being treated by idiots) it's going to be a hard few weeks until her hormones settle and her milk dries up. Honestly, I don't think her baby could have been saved, but that's not important now. In all honesty the chance of a baby born at 21 weeks living is exceptionally small, it happens but rarely and she understands that But thing is she will never know and the "what if's" are destroying her She is also blaming herself for not insisting they give her the stitch, because she would have carried longer - and nothing anyone can say will stop that self blame

chemeli -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:53:56 PM)
A good friend of mine and a coworker lost her second baby two weeks ago. I still dont know if there is something wrong with her (might be) because she didnt go to see her doctor and got examined for it, to see what the problem is. The real problem was, her not taking good care of herself during her pregnancy. Eating only cookies for dinner, as an example. And now she's blaming herself for this. ( this is where i saw the similarities between your friend and mine). So, I try to be there for her. I'm not in her mind, so i cant make her feel better about what she feels about herself, but there is no judging on my part, only support. I dont know about words. I know only about support and being there for her. Your presence alone in her life may be all that it takes for her to feel better. For her to feel there is someone there who cares, even if she feels like shit about herself. I dont think that trying to rationalize the situation is going to help. (that's my first impulse to try and do in those situations) It's only about time and about her trying to not be too harsh upon herself......and that takes a lot of work. From your words, it feels like you'll try your best to be there for her and that's what's count above all. There is nothing what has more worth and value then that. hope it helps.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:54:02 PM)
I would hug her and say "I am so sorry for your loss". That may turn in to a conversation, or 10 minutes of standing there and hugging her while you both cry like babies. Either way, at times like this, I feel it is all I can do.

Shininglight23 -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:54:30 PM)
I am so sorry for the loss your friend is feeling. I can't imagine how hurt, angry, and numb she must be. Sometimes no words can be spoken, and you just need to "be". I hope that your friend finds comfort in you being there for her... in whatever way she needs. I wish you luck in navigating the emotional mine field you are about to enter. Only positive thoughts for you and your friend. Allie

DaddySatyr -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:58:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amaidiamond quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr How fucking heartless does a professional caregiver have to be to just allow this kind of shit to go on. I think that it would rip them too I swear I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but, in my mind, a professional caregiver (Sorry. That should have read: "Human being") does everything they can to save the baby's life. A piece of almost sub-human filth stands by and says: "My hands are tied by rules" I hope that your friend fights this as hard and far as she can. Think about this: We have seen a doctor/hospital/whoever instituted this bullshit playing God and deciding what child is worthy of an attempt to save its life. Sorry, we've hit the skids, as a race. Peace and comfort, Michael

RedMagic1 -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 2:59:35 PM)
Ms. Diamond, you've always been one of favorite posters, because you've always had superb photos, and, when you write, you keep it 100% real. I think you should read up a bit. Educate yourself. Typing "miscarriage grief" into a search engine will give you a lot of hits. Here's one I liked. http://www.miscarriagesupport.org.nz/grief_issues.html I wouldn't encourage her to file a lawsuit. If she decides she wants to, down the road, fine, support her. But maintaining anger, or seeking revenge, don't seem to be the best possible emotions here.

amaidiamond -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 3:04:40 PM)
Thank you all I will be travlling down for the funeral and by her side, we have talked on the phone a lot and I have just listened to her and tried to support her. The shitty part is when she asks me why, all I have is I don't know. I am upset and blazingly angery and at war with myself.... logic tells me I have no right to be upset, I never met my godson but emotions wont listen. @DaddySatyr For what it is worth I think it is disgusting and personally I could not do it, stand their and not intervene - part of why I would be awful in that profession... but I am also aware how desperate it is out their and how thinnly hospitals are spread so to speak here Personally I believe if their is life then their is hope and for me breathing would be enough reason to fight

amaidiamond -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 3:09:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Educate yourself. Typing "miscarriage grief" into a search engine will give you a lot of hits. Here's one I liked. http://www.miscarriagesupport.org.nz/grief_issues.html I wouldn't encourage her to file a lawsuit. If she decides she wants to, down the road, fine, support her. But maintaining anger, or seeking revenge, don't seem to be the best possible emotions here. Thank you for the compliment and the link I don't think its just loosing the baby that is screwing her up - it is the fact the baby was born alive and fighting AND that the hospital refused to follow her Dr's advice initially (hence leading to the 21 week birth to start with) Regarding the lawsuit, she already has a solicitor, nothing to do with me and was told she has a case It is not about revenge for her, more trying to ensure someone else does not suffer that way

LadyHibiscus -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 3:10:37 PM)
Her early fluid loss and bleeding are signs of a miscarriage. She should have been treated THEN. There's nothing a stitch in her cervix would have done to save this baby. The what if... yes. A former colleague found out that her third child was profoundly deformed, but she decided to take the chance of bringing a severely handicapped child into the world because she felt she had to give the baby the best chance possible. He took a few breaths before dying in her arms. (Sirenomalia...) she said that she was ready to steal a baby when her milk came in. I want to college with a woman who had a late term miscarriage, it was very traumatic. Grief has stages, and this is all too new. I agree with RedMagic, there is no point to hanging on to anger.

amaidiamond -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 3:14:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Her early fluid loss and bleeding are signs of a miscarriage. She should have been treated THEN. There's nothing a stitch in her cervix would have done to save this baby. From what I can gather With the previous babys - the stitch was put in MUCH earlier, like 3 months in and in both cases worked - she carried to 28 and 32 weeks The hormonal stuff she was given was instead of the stitch - and from what I was told the hormoanal stuff CAUSED the fluid loss So by her logic, if she had pushed for the stitch not the hormonal stuff, no fluid loss - still would be pregnant

LookieNoNookie -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 4:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amaidiamond Warning - this might be depressing as hell. I don't know what to feel, do, say at the moment. My oldest friend and I have been friends 26 years since we were 4. We grew up together, leaned on each other and always turned to the other when trouble hit. Well basically I am "godmother" to her kids, two girls and a boy... earlier this year she told me she was expecting and asked me if I would once again be godmother to her latest baby. I agreed and followed the pregnancy, I was meant to travel and visit in January for the christening (we no longer live locally) My friend has had issues with all pregnancy's and gone into labour early, to prevent this in the last pregnancy a stitch was placed in to prevent it. Her doctor wanted her to have it for this baby but the hospital refused, saying that it could lead to premature labour and instead to take hormonal tablets (I don't know which but she said they were similar to ones given to menopausal women?) At 19 weeks she went to hospital because she was loosing liquid between her legs.... she was turned away. A week later at 20 weeks she was loosing liquid and blood and she was monitored, at 21 weeks labour started. The hospital were dithering about giving her injections to stop the contractions They spent so long it was too late, she gave birth at 21 weeks and a couple of days to a baby boy. He was born alive and breathing, she begged them to help him but they refused - hospital policy is that babies under 22 weeks are not viable for treatment. He died in her arms 15 mins later, the whole time spent with her pleading for him to be treated. Funeral is Monday. I don't know what I am going to say, how I am going to support her as his coffin goes down. What can I say when no words will help? Shes blaming herself - she believes if she had ignored the hospital and fought for the stitch he would still be inside her She has a lawyer and they say she has a case for negligence but that is little consolation now Her head is messed up and i have no idea what to do. As for me, my feelings.... anger and numbness, the world is gray. Edited for messed up spelling OMG. That is horrifying, in every possible expression of the word. Please tell your friend that there are others who are thinking of her and carry (some) of her pain. That is so beyond awful, words can't express. Fuck....that hurts.

Lucifyre -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 4:21:33 PM)
Nothing on this board has brought me to tears. Until I read this. Dia, I have to chime in about the holding onto the anger. Try not to let your friend focus on it if you're able. Be there and offer your arms to hold her and shoulder for her to cry on, but when she gets angry try to diffuse it. I don't have any suggestions on how, just do whatever you can. What if's won't bring that baby back and neither will anger. Hold your friend, love her as much as you can and be there for her and that's the best thing you can do. We are thinking of your friend and you as well...I know your heart hurts right now too. Lucifyre

Rule -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 4:25:02 PM)
Just hug her.

gigi08 -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 4:26:41 PM)
I feel for your friend and will keep her in my prayers. I had a taste of what she went thru with having a premie and hearing doctor's tell you this needs done and that needs done and we can only hope your baby survives. My main thought about her beating herself up about the stitch is she doesn't really know it would have saved the pregnancy. I can only image the hell she is going thru but if she were given a choice to take the hormones that may help or the stitch that would guarantee a full-term healthy baby and she refused then she may be correct...may be...in feeling like she was wrong. But she wasn't given a choice. She did as she was told by people who are supposed to be professionals. She did everything she could have done. She was not wrong. Life was wrong and handed her a wrong. Hold her while she cries, wipe her tears, tell her she is amazing and that her two precious children still need their mommy. You are doing everything for her simply by just being there for her. I am sorry you are hurting and I am sorry your friend is hurting. I wish you both all the best. During my hospital stay, I unfortunately witnessed a baby dying and then heard the mother next to me & my baby died. It is not possible to describe how that feels.

gungadin09 -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 4:30:32 PM)
Hugs. Pam

Rule -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 4:31:45 PM)
I recommend bringing in a professional grief counselor.

kitkat105 -> RE: What can you say when no words can help... (warning - upsetting subject matter) (8/31/2012 5:07:24 PM)
The most important thing I think you can do is be there for her, in a way a bestfriend can. It will be a very good idea to seek counseling - from someone who specialising in this kind of loss. She will never get over this, one day she'll be able to accept it but never get over it. I don't want this to come across harsh, I just want to sound medically rational, but women who've had one per-term labour (with or without cerclage) have an extremely high chance of it happening again and the possible infant mortality that goes with it. The fact that your friend has had 2 previous pre-term labours did not bode well for a successful pregnancy, no matter what she or the medical staff did. Women in that situation very rarely have support from medical staff because usually they are highly encouraged to NOT have anymore children because the risk outweighs the chance of a live birth.

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