Kana
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quote:
Sadism is not in the natural order because it doesn't usually occur within tribes. However, it shows up during times of war. Have you never watches WW2 movies, where everything gets blown up and the enemy is torn apart by mortar splinters and you thought "Wow! That was amazing and powerful."
Dude-you need to read Lord of the Flies.
Since you like philosophy, how bout going back to an original, Hobbes.
He famously postulated that life w/o civilization, as in the original primal nature state is solitary, lonely, nasty, brutish and short. In this state, everyone is entitled to anything and everything in the world. This in turn leads to bellum omnium contra omnes, an eternal war of all against all for survival (The modern version of this of course is Anne Rice's depiction of the world as the savage garden)
In this world there can never be peace, so there can never be industry, trade, culture, arts or agriculture.
Thus, in order to live life, man surrenders some of his initial rights to everything and anything-thus the social contract is formed.
You're coming at this from the wrong tack. Man's natural state of being is not sadism, but self-sustainment (See Mazlow and his hierarchy). In order to sustain himself, man uses war. This is not due to sadism, or cruelty purely for the sake of cruelty, but rather that he may live and have the commodities required to continue living. Now I'm not going to argue that war is kind or fun or that men frequently don't revert (Because they obviously do), but generally speaking , especially in modern times, war starts where diplomacy fails.
It ain't done out of savagery. It ain't done merely to hear someone suffer. People have reasons to go to war.
Almost (And I believe all, I'm just hedging here) wars are resource wars-someone else has something that the other wants and is willing to take-it's armed robbery on a grand scale. Mask em in politics and nobility, cloak em in moral guises and clever reasons, but they almost always come down to Gimme, gimme, gimme.
As for this,
quote:
Social problems arise when sexual desires are mixed up with social/family-like values. , that's just blatantly ridiculous. People commit crimes all the time out of things that have zip to do with sex, greed being the first and foremost of those.
Besides, how do you apply this to societies that don't really have sexual hangups, like ancient china where pretty much anything went and was acceptable. Just because the western world has all sorts of hangups (Usually rooted in Judeo Christian ethical/moral standards that society has adopted) doesn't mean other cultures do.
Jews have no religious concept of sexual sin-they don't have to get hung up at all, why would they? Shinto could care less, and some Buddhist sects are downright wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiild
So explain why these people are fucked up just like the rest of us...
Finally, re your original thesis
quote:
I'm German and I've recently come to the conclusion that BDSM is ultimately inevitable, although not quite yet. I would argue the opposite. The trend in history is towards less sadism, more compassion, a kinder world. In much of the world, lords can't rape serfs. torture is no longer socially acceptable (Public hangings no longer occur for instance), laws have become less draconian, hell, many civilized governments don't even own a workable Iron Maiden anymore.
It's a bloody tragedy.
Now personally I tend more towards the idea that civilizations rise and fall in a series of ebbs and flows, man tends to revert to more savage states when things dissolve, but maybe I'm being cynical.
But sadism as the inevitable state, naaaaaah, that ain't gonna happen.
< Message edited by Kana -- 9/1/2012 10:00:36 PM >
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"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST
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