It's the victims fault? (Full Version)

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calamitysandra -> It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 3:05:57 PM)

Well, this certainly does explain a lot:

Priest puts the blame for abuse on the victims


To me this seems like he accidentally stated what a sadly large amount of catholic rank and file think, but are usually too conscious to say. Now everybody is in a mad dash for damage control.




Politesub53 -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 4:55:43 PM)

It is just a small part of the denial that abuse takes place, put up by the Catholic Church for decades.




FullCircle -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 5:01:17 PM)

He should have blamed the devil first as that would have been more plausible.




GotSteel -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 5:18:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
He should have blamed the devil first as that would have been more plausible.


That positions already been taken. Father Gabriele Amorth, the chief exorcist for the Holy See claimed it years ago.




FullCircle -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 5:22:44 PM)

Thought it probably had, I'm a pessimist.




slvemike4u -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 5:35:56 PM)

This right here is why I am a "lapsed" Catholic....I no longer enter a Catholic Church,not for weddings,nor for religious holidays.




DNAHelicase -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 6:02:21 PM)

I read a psychology journal paper years ago detailing rapists' motivations and justifications in their own words. Around half of convicted rapists believed that they were justified in what they did. So to make that clear, these were men who had been convicted of rape and admitted to doing it, but said that it was justified. They didn't believe they had actually done anything wrong, even in cases of extremely violent, clear cut rape. It's been years since I read that, so I probably couldn't find it now. A quick google search has turned up nothing, but if I find it later I'll post it. In the meantime, I did find this. It's a post highlighting several rapists' comments on reddit explaining why they did what they did. Rapists justifying what they did--not just through victim blaming, that seems to be a common justification--is a huge and often ignored part of the discussion on rape. This guy fits right in.




FullCircle -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 6:12:54 PM)

Probably the majority of them are good people with their heart in the right place, the minority spoil it for all of them. It's a bit like how they say business fraud is a victimless crime when in reality we are all victims of it. We hear about such cases and so that person opposite you is no longer a potential good person but instead a potential fraudster to be wary of. Such crimes erode our trust in humanity sad really how we start out differently to how we end up due to the actions of criminals.

I've only ever been to funerals at a church and so in that respect it's a bit like wanting to visit a hospital. They also make you sing these songs at such places and not just any old songs but songs with words you've never seen before in your life.




graceadieu -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 6:20:36 PM)

Hmm, how much you wanna bet that guy is a child molester too? I don't know how anyone who isn't could come up with a justification like that. [:'(]




hlen5 -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 8:52:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

This right here is why I am a "lapsed" Catholic....I no longer enter a Catholic Church,not for weddings,nor for religious holidays.



You don't go to weddings?




DarkSteven -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 9:54:42 PM)

I don't know if you noticed this, but when he described the list of professions that work with children and could be liable, "priest" was one of them. [:'(]




Hillwilliam -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 9:58:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It is just a small part of the denial that abuse takes place, put up by the Catholic Church for decades.

Decades? Make that centuries.




slvemike4u -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/1/2012 10:12:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

This right here is why I am a "lapsed" Catholic....I no longer enter a Catholic Church,not for weddings,nor for religious holidays.



You don't go to weddings?

Receptions yes....will,of necessity, attend niece's weddings wherever they decide to have them(as I'm walking two of them down the aisle,I have no choice)but have managed to avoid the inside of a church for about 8 years




Real0ne -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 4:25:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't know if you noticed this, but when he described the list of professions that work with children and could be liable, "priest" was one of them. [:'(]


at least its not condoned in the bible or equivalent.








kalikshama -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 4:39:14 AM)

I'm not buying the back peddling.

NY priest 'deeply regrets' sex abuse comment

NEW YORK — A New York priest says he "deeply regrets" if he hurt anyone by his comments that priests accused of child sex abuse are often seduced by their accusers and that a first-time offender should not go to jail.

The Rev. Benedict Groeschel of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal apologized Thursday for the comments he made in an interview with the National Catholic Register published this week. The website for the conservative independent Register then removed the story and posted an apology for publishing the comments. Groeschel and the friars did as well.

"I did not intend to blame the victim. A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible," Groeschel said in his post on the website. "My mind and my way of expressing myself are not as clear as they used to be. I have spent my life trying to help others the best that I could. I deeply regret any harm I have caused to anyone."

The friars expressed regret for the remarks and highlighted Groeschel's medical history. They said he had been in a car accident several years ago, and that "in recent months his health, memory and cognitive ability have been failing." They described the comments as "out of character."

Asked in the Register interview about working with priests involved in abuse, Groeschel had said, "Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster — 14, 16, 18 — is the seducer."

In expanding on his answer, Groeschel also referenced Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State coach convicted of sexually abusing boys, referring to Sandusky as "this poor guy" and wondering why no one said anything for years.

He also added later that anyone involved "on their first offense, they should not go to jail because their intention was not committing a crime."

Editor in Chief Jeanette De Melo posted a note apologizing for "publishing without clarification or challenge Father Benedict Groeschel's comments that seem to suggest that the child is somehow responsible for abuse. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our publication of that comment was an editorial mistake, for which we sincerely apologize."

The Archdiocese of New York also repudiated the comments in a statement posted on its website, calling them "simply wrong."

"Although he is not a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, what Father Groeschel said cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. The sexual abuse of a minor is a crime, and whoever commits that crime deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law," spokesman Joseph Zwilling said.

Groeschel is not a priest with the archdiocese in any specific parish but has worked with it in the past. He helped start the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in 1987. He hosts a weekly show, "Sunday Night Prime," on EWTN, the Catholic television network.

Deacon Bernard Nojadera, executive director of the Secretariat of Child and Youth Protection of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said, "There is never a time when you can blame a minor who is sexually assaulted for the crime perpetrated upon him or her. The responsibility is always with the adult. Sexual abuse of a minor is abhorrent and indefensible. It is especially heinous when the abuse is perpetrated by a cleric."

David Clohessy, director of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, or SNAP, said there needs to be consequences for figures like Groeschel, "who say incredibly hurtful and mean-spirited things."

"He's rubbing salt into the wounds of already-suffering victims," Clohessy said.

Comments like Groeschel's "discourage victims, witnesses and whistleblowers from reporting horrific crimes both known and suspected," he said.




kalikshama -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 4:58:41 AM)

Here's something interesting about the website that originally carried the story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/prominent-priest-blames-sex-victims-says-first-time-abusers-shouldnt-face-jail/2012/08/30/fcfca61e-f2e8-11e1-b74c-84ed55e0300b_story.html?tid=obinsite

...Groeschel’s comments became so radioactive so quickly that the National Catholic Register, a conservative media outlet, removed the story from its website within hours of posting it.

The Register was criticized for the move in part because until last year the newspaper was owned by the Legion of Christ. The Legion’s founder, the late Rev. Marcial Maciel, was found to have been a serial child abuser who also fathered at least six children with different women and used church funds to support his lifestyle and curry favor in Rome.

For years, the Register was a vocal apologist for Maciel, a Mexican-born priest who was a longtime favorite in the Vatican, and the newspaper’s writers often attacked Maciel’s critics and in general played down the sexual abuse of children among clergy.

Last year, after the Vatican bowed to public pressure and launched an overhaul of the Legion of Christ, the Register was purchased by EWTN, another conservative media outlet best known for its cable television programming, and where Groeschel was a frequent guest. ...





KYsissy -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 5:06:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Well, this certainly does explain a lot:

Priest puts the blame for abuse on the victims


To me this seems like he accidentally stated what a sadly large amount of catholic rank and file think, but are usually too conscious to say. Now everybody is in a mad dash for damage control.


It is ridiculous to state the rank and file agree. I grew up catholic but haven't set foot in a church for 20 years. Longer if you don't count weddings. People I know were LIVID when this came out. "It could have been my kids or any of our friends kids" was the common thought. As bad as any molesting would be, the cover up that followed completely shattered the trust church members had in the leadership.

Every so often a case comes out of someone being held as a slave. Domestic work and sexual use. What would your reaction be to someone who knew nothing about Ds saying "I bet the whole BDSM community thinks this ok."?





DarkSteven -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 5:19:13 AM)

A little insight for those now well acquainted with the Catholic church. (This insight courtesy of my ex-wife, who told me after we attended a Mass given by some wacko substitute priest.)

The guy is very old, old enough to have been a priest before Vatican II. Back then, the Church had unquestioned authority. (They still think they do, but the US contingent doesn't always agree.) HE may not have gotten used to having his pronouncements questioned.

John Paul II made it cool to be a Catholic, and cool to be a priest. Under him, the priesthood had some stellar priests, many of them from third world countries. Prior to JP II, the Church was starved for priests and would basically accept anyone. A fair number of the priests accepted then simply were unable to make it in the "real world" and became priests as a last resort.

The fact that he has no parish, says a lot. The inferior priests are kept as "substitute priests" in case a church needs a priest for Mass.

-----------------------

All that said, the retractions and excuses are bush league. The Vatican itself has shown no interest, preferring to chew out US nuns that don't hew to the party line. It's truly a shame that JP II was followed by Ratzinger, one of the least able popes in modern history.




Real0ne -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 5:29:21 AM)

citations?




DarkSteven -> RE: It's the victims fault? (9/2/2012 7:06:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

citations?


" (This insight courtesy of my ex-wife, who told me after we attended a Mass given by some wacko substitute priest.)"




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